Would you buy/race one?

Motogoof
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12/20/2025 6:27am
Gravel wrote:
The YCF looks fun, any idea how much power it makes? An XR400 with updated ergonomics would be a great bike, the swayback seat/high tank on the...

The YCF looks fun, any idea how much power it makes? 

An XR400 with updated ergonomics would be a great bike, the swayback seat/high tank on the old model was a little awkward, but not a deal breaker.. it’s been gone for a while, and if I remember pricing correctly it would be a $7-8k bike today. They were $4k when a CR250 was $5k?

 

I think that 190 motor makes about 27 hp. We have the biggie 190. My son uses it all the time for trail riding around the house with his buddies on 110s. They all want to  ride  his 190. They just need a new class that requires air cooled  4 strokes under 200 cc.

The great thing about that Daytona 190 motor is that it’s virtually used all over the world and there’s parts everywhere for it.

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Village Idiot
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12/20/2025 7:40am
Radical wrote:

What kind of OEM only parts are needed to revitalize vintage racing?

Off the top of my head -

most precision engine parts, seat foam/covers, tanks, electronics, frames, some suspension items

While some of them were possibly available in the aftermarket (and may still be), most of that has dried up by now and the supply obviously gets thinner with each passing day.

Cylinders, PV parts, transmission and clutch components, engine cases, cracked/rotted tanks, electronics, broken/stretched frames and damaged/worn out suspension parts have been common items I've seen that sidelined guys that I knew who were into it. Yes, most anything can be reverse-engineered if you want it badly enough, but at what cost? And as a lot of the used engine parts dried up, the prices got astronomical on places like eBay. It seems like the KIPS parts for the KXs was one of those. Maybe someone started making replacements?

I'm sure there are others on here that are/were into it that can answer much better than I have, but that's what I remember off the top of my head. You had to really be into it and have parts sources identified, plus have multiple bikes on hand so that at least one was always running while waiting on parts for others.

1
joekarter
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12/20/2025 12:03pm

I know I would certainly consider buying and racing a bike that had the same level of technology and quality as the early 80's bikes.  From the looks of the Kove and a couple of the other Chinese bikes I think they're about there.  I really think the thing that would push something like this into the mainstream would be if the manufacturer set up a series for there bikes with some sort of incentive system.

soggy
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12/20/2025 12:28pm Edited Date/Time 12/20/2025 12:28pm
Gravel wrote:
I think what you’re describing is exactly what the sport needs right now. 9-10” of good travel, air cooled, 25-35hp, disc brakes (because they’re so much...

I think what you’re describing is exactly what the sport needs right now. 9-10” of good travel, air cooled, 25-35hp, disc brakes (because they’re so much better and don’t really cost more..) and good handling / ergonomics. Kickstart might be the right choice, not sure about that.. 

The current entry level bikes are sort of close, but they aren’t there yet. 

I’d buy one

3strokemx wrote:
Congrats on your new purchase!

Congrats on your new purchase!
image 2402

Gravel wrote:

What brand is that? I’m not trusting the chineseium brands yet, but they look better every year.

They can’t be more crude or less reliable then what the Japanese OEM’s were pumping out in the 80’s.

1

The Shop

kijen
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12/20/2025 1:09pm
Gravel wrote:
The YCF looks fun, any idea how much power it makes? An XR400 with updated ergonomics would be a great bike, the swayback seat/high tank on the...

The YCF looks fun, any idea how much power it makes? 

An XR400 with updated ergonomics would be a great bike, the swayback seat/high tank on the old model was a little awkward, but not a deal breaker.. it’s been gone for a while, and if I remember pricing correctly it would be a $7-8k bike today. They were $4k when a CR250 was $5k?

 

The Daytona 190 is around 23hp, pretty common to bbk to 212.

soggy
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12/20/2025 1:11pm
joekarter wrote:
I know I would certainly consider buying and racing a bike that had the same level of technology and quality as the early 80's bikes.  From...

I know I would certainly consider buying and racing a bike that had the same level of technology and quality as the early 80's bikes.  From the looks of the Kove and a couple of the other Chinese bikes I think they're about there.  I really think the thing that would push something like this into the mainstream would be if the manufacturer set up a series for there bikes with some sort of incentive system.

the Kove is light years more advanced then what was being produced in the 80’s

2
RDnutz
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12/20/2025 2:45pm Edited Date/Time 12/20/2025 2:58pm
3strokemx wrote:
Congrats on your new purchase!

Congrats on your new purchase!
image 2402

Gravel wrote:

What brand is that? I’m not trusting the chineseium brands yet, but they look better every year.

soggy wrote:

They can’t be more crude or less reliable then what the Japanese OEM’s were pumping out in the 80’s.

I don't know how old you are, but I disagree with premise Japanese OEMs were pumping out crude bikes in the 1980's. I lived through it and rode the really basic crude stuff and unreliable if you want to talk about most the European stuff that made it to USA in the 1960's. The technology advanced by leaps and bounds by the time big 4 arrived here starting to sell purpose made race bikes. People take for granted single shock rear suspension, water cooling, reed valve induction, disc brakes and more. Go watch a documentary or even written accounts of the 1976 US Motocross season with names like Marty Smith, Bob Hanna, etc. and you'll see what I am talking about. New motors, frames, etc. were being introduced during the season- sometimes every few weeks- pushing the boundaries of what existed, searching for every possible competitive advantage. The claiming rule mostly ended that when it was ruled Production representative bikes could only be raced and sold. The individual character of the bikes became homogenized, and then the adoption of 4-strokes made it even worse so now what is raced is basically similar bikes- save for colors and graphics differences. They have no soul or sense of heritage from individual manufacturers that started it all and got us to this point.

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Timo
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12/20/2025 3:30pm

Gpx fse300e is like a fuel injected XR, I believe the engine is based on Honda's crf300f.

The TSE250R is an updated WR200.

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Wandell
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12/20/2025 5:58pm
Gravel wrote:

The Honda 300 is a step in the right direction, I’ll take a closer look at that..

I AGREE. I LOOKED AT HONDA'S WEBSITE AND IT LOOKS PRETTY SOLID. BUT IT COULD USE BETTER SUSPENSION AND IT NEEDS A SERIOUS DIET 271 LBS IS INSANE. IF YOU FELL AND IT WOUND UP ON TOP OF YOU, YOU'D BE F'D LIKE CHUCK!

PRM31
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Fantasy
12/20/2025 6:01pm
mumbles wrote:

All I know is I would love to have a 1981 - 83 RM125. Best bike I ever rode.

Amen! This is a fact! 

1
mxpappy711
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12/20/2025 6:09pm Edited Date/Time 12/20/2025 6:10pm

68045176590  115577D1-130D-467E-BE63-CEDEFF5B6BD8Better yet, buy a project at Mid Ohio for 2500, put 1,000 and some time into it and presto!

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mxpappy711
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12/20/2025 6:15pm
IMG 9268 0
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Radical
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12/21/2025 3:41am
Radical wrote:

What kind of OEM only parts are needed to revitalize vintage racing?

Off the top of my head -most precision engine parts, seat foam/covers, tanks, electronics, frames, some suspension itemsWhile some of them were possibly available in the...

Off the top of my head -

most precision engine parts, seat foam/covers, tanks, electronics, frames, some suspension items

While some of them were possibly available in the aftermarket (and may still be), most of that has dried up by now and the supply obviously gets thinner with each passing day.

Cylinders, PV parts, transmission and clutch components, engine cases, cracked/rotted tanks, electronics, broken/stretched frames and damaged/worn out suspension parts have been common items I've seen that sidelined guys that I knew who were into it. Yes, most anything can be reverse-engineered if you want it badly enough, but at what cost? And as a lot of the used engine parts dried up, the prices got astronomical on places like eBay. It seems like the KIPS parts for the KXs was one of those. Maybe someone started making replacements?

I'm sure there are others on here that are/were into it that can answer much better than I have, but that's what I remember off the top of my head. You had to really be into it and have parts sources identified, plus have multiple bikes on hand so that at least one was always running while waiting on parts for others.

Thanks!

It seems a business could be formed to make a lot of these parts, but in order for it to be cost effective, the models supported would have to be limited.

Making one off parts is time consuming.  If dozens could be made and sold, that would help drive down the costs.

Building frames may not make sense, because it would be too tempting to make improvements, like using Chromoly instead of mild steel.

I really like vintage bikes, and racing them would be really cool!

1
Village Idiot
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12/21/2025 7:54am
Radical wrote:

What kind of OEM only parts are needed to revitalize vintage racing?

Off the top of my head -most precision engine parts, seat foam/covers, tanks, electronics, frames, some suspension itemsWhile some of them were possibly available in the...

Off the top of my head -

most precision engine parts, seat foam/covers, tanks, electronics, frames, some suspension items

While some of them were possibly available in the aftermarket (and may still be), most of that has dried up by now and the supply obviously gets thinner with each passing day.

Cylinders, PV parts, transmission and clutch components, engine cases, cracked/rotted tanks, electronics, broken/stretched frames and damaged/worn out suspension parts have been common items I've seen that sidelined guys that I knew who were into it. Yes, most anything can be reverse-engineered if you want it badly enough, but at what cost? And as a lot of the used engine parts dried up, the prices got astronomical on places like eBay. It seems like the KIPS parts for the KXs was one of those. Maybe someone started making replacements?

I'm sure there are others on here that are/were into it that can answer much better than I have, but that's what I remember off the top of my head. You had to really be into it and have parts sources identified, plus have multiple bikes on hand so that at least one was always running while waiting on parts for others.

Radical wrote:
Thanks!It seems a business could be formed to make a lot of these parts, but in order for it to be cost effective, the models supported...

Thanks!

It seems a business could be formed to make a lot of these parts, but in order for it to be cost effective, the models supported would have to be limited.

Making one off parts is time consuming.  If dozens could be made and sold, that would help drive down the costs.

Building frames may not make sense, because it would be too tempting to make improvements, like using Chromoly instead of mild steel.

I really like vintage bikes, and racing them would be really cool!

Exactly; it's the economy of scale. There are sources for body plastics for some models that are popular, but it's still nowhere near the prices of the readily available stuff for current models - not enough production to reduce the cost per piece. I've never priced injection molds but the ones I've heard pricing on were seven figures. Gotta sell a lot of product just to break even.

And yes, I'd love to have a modernized version of the original FF RM125... but I'd have to roll my own and that would run into the tens of thousands (if not more) even if I used a YZ engine... and I can't say I'm that nostalgic. 😄

1
RDnutz
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12/21/2025 8:18am

there are a couple vendors out there stocking most everything needed (except OEM engine parts) to repair/restore vintage mx bikes.

DC Plastics > Categories

Home - AMS Racing

Home | Clarke Racing

Speed & Sport | Vintage Motorcycle Parts & Service

there's 1 in New Mexico I can't remember right now and at least 1 in Australia.

 

1
RDnutz
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12/21/2025 8:20am
Radical wrote:
Thanks!It seems a business could be formed to make a lot of these parts, but in order for it to be cost effective, the models supported...

Thanks!

It seems a business could be formed to make a lot of these parts, but in order for it to be cost effective, the models supported would have to be limited.

Making one off parts is time consuming.  If dozens could be made and sold, that would help drive down the costs.

Building frames may not make sense, because it would be too tempting to make improvements, like using Chromoly instead of mild steel.

I really like vintage bikes, and racing them would be really cool!

Yamaha production YZs had chromoly frames (starting 1973) while MXs had mild steel.

1
12/21/2025 5:23pm

Since there are a lot of people with old bike knowledge on this thread I'll ask here:

What would you suggest for myself for a 1980-1985 vintage racer? I currently have a 79 PE250, 81 IT175 and modern bikes. AA level off road racer. I'd like to to the vintage class at the Odessa Desert 100, which allows 1985 and older. I'm a Suzuki guy, but for this I'd go any direction that would be the most competitive. I don't believe the PE250 I have would be a good weapon to compete for a win. I'm looking around at early 80s Husky's, Suzukis or Hondas mostly at the moment. 

Village Idiot
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12/21/2025 6:29pm
Since there are a lot of people with old bike knowledge on this thread I'll ask here:What would you suggest for myself for a 1980-1985 vintage...

Since there are a lot of people with old bike knowledge on this thread I'll ask here:

What would you suggest for myself for a 1980-1985 vintage racer? I currently have a 79 PE250, 81 IT175 and modern bikes. AA level off road racer. I'd like to to the vintage class at the Odessa Desert 100, which allows 1985 and older. I'm a Suzuki guy, but for this I'd go any direction that would be the most competitive. I don't believe the PE250 I have would be a good weapon to compete for a win. I'm looking around at early 80s Husky's, Suzukis or Hondas mostly at the moment. 

Desert racing is not in my resume', but if it's as wide open as some I've seen, maybe an '85 CR500 or an RM465? IIRC, the CR and '81 RM have 5-speed gearboxes and the '82 has a 4-speed with a larger countershaft and beefier gears that supposedly cover the same spread of ratios, just a wider differential between them. That FF suspension is hard to beat if you've got a sound one.

alphado
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12/22/2025 5:20am

Trail bike class! KLX140s, it’s a blast!

IMG 1993 2
e-wa
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12/22/2025 8:47am Edited Date/Time 12/22/2025 8:48am

I have a Crf250F that I use on the farm, fun bike for railing corners on roads. If I rode in mountains more it would probably be my choice. Easy standover height and reminds me of early 80s Suspension.   I wouldn't take it out into the endless whooped sand trails in juniper dunes. At 265 lbs I wouldn't want to take it around a moto track.

rogers
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12/22/2025 9:07am Edited Date/Time 12/22/2025 9:08am

"Remaking" vintage type bikes defeats the entire point of using vintage bikes for vintage racing and people that would buy that type of bike would never be able to appreciate the time, money, and effort etc it takes to find, build and race one.

1
12/22/2025 9:22am
Gravel wrote:

What brand is that? I’m not trusting the chineseium brands yet, but they look better every year.

3strokemx wrote:
   You have Japanese options too!  (Don't ask where they are made).Point being, we already have "bikes that are air cooled, have limited travel and tech and...
image 2404

 

image 2405.png?VersionId=yB

 

You have Japanese options too!  (Don't ask where they are made).

Point being, we already have "bikes that are air cooled, have limited travel and tech and would be considerably more affordable (think something around mid 70's to early 80's bikes at around a 3 to 5 thousand price range"

 

 

Gravel wrote:
I currently own a TTR230, it’s a decent bike but it needs better suspension, geometry and ergos to be what I’m talking about. The geo and...

I currently own a TTR230, it’s a decent bike but it needs better suspension, geometry and ergos to be what I’m talking about. The geo and ergos are mostly no cost changes at the design level, and by better suspension I mean the equivalent of 1985-1995 conventional cartridge forks, not the stuff we have today. A new IT175 is the best example I can think of..

Exactly!

I have an 08 TTR230. Why is it the suspension was a million times better on my 84 XR200 I had when i was a teenager then the modern TTR230?

And while I'm at it, put a damn kickstarter back on entry level bikes.

2
Gravel
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12/22/2025 1:32pm
3strokemx wrote:
   You have Japanese options too!  (Don't ask where they are made).Point being, we already have "bikes that are air cooled, have limited travel and tech and...
image 2404

 

image 2405.png?VersionId=yB

 

You have Japanese options too!  (Don't ask where they are made).

Point being, we already have "bikes that are air cooled, have limited travel and tech and would be considerably more affordable (think something around mid 70's to early 80's bikes at around a 3 to 5 thousand price range"

 

 

Gravel wrote:
I currently own a TTR230, it’s a decent bike but it needs better suspension, geometry and ergos to be what I’m talking about. The geo and...

I currently own a TTR230, it’s a decent bike but it needs better suspension, geometry and ergos to be what I’m talking about. The geo and ergos are mostly no cost changes at the design level, and by better suspension I mean the equivalent of 1985-1995 conventional cartridge forks, not the stuff we have today. A new IT175 is the best example I can think of..

Exactly!I have an 08 TTR230. Why is it the suspension was a million times better on my 84 XR200 I had when i was a teenager...

Exactly!

I have an 08 TTR230. Why is it the suspension was a million times better on my 84 XR200 I had when i was a teenager then the modern TTR230?

And while I'm at it, put a damn kickstarter back on entry level bikes.

That CRF300 might be a good step up, it’s got 41mm conventional forks, I’d guess that it compares to the old XR250-400s fairly well? 

olderandYZer
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12/22/2025 2:04pm
joekarter wrote:
Up until recently I raced with a vintage group here in Arizona.  I think the club was averaging about 75 to 100 entries an event and...

Up until recently I raced with a vintage group here in Arizona.  I think the club was averaging about 75 to 100 entries an event and everyone was having a great time.  Vintage racing really requires an old school track and the bikes are getting pretty used up so the sport really (at least here in AZ) is kinda up against a wall and the program/club has all but gone away.  While the racing was fun and seeing bikes from my youth was a hoot, my question though isn't really specifically about vintage MX but more about bikes that are air cooled, have limited travel and tech and would be considerably more affordable (think something around mid 70's to early 80's bikes at around a 3 to 5 thousand price range).  If several motorcycle manufactures were to produce bikes like this and the local track in your area was up to creating an appropriate track, would you consider purchasing and racing that sorta bike? 

Up until recently I was involved with AHRMA as a rider and even sat in on conference calls in the SE region of AHRMA in 2023 to try to get that going again. It's still not going today very well. 

 

I suggested in 2023 that we get a Chinese manufacture to manufacture an air cooled low tech bike  specifically to race.  Either 2 stroke or 4 stroke that was easy to work on and manufacture  as  a "spec" bike and it would help spur people to get back onto the sport and attract new riders/racers.  Built for around 4 to 5 grand.  Kinda like what your suggesting, but just new and readily available unlike a 1979 yz 125 that is not.  

 

Let Me tell you, that went over about as well as a lead filled Zepplin.  They were "Not Interested!"

mxaniac
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12/22/2025 2:24pm
Gravel wrote:

What brand is that? I’m not trusting the chineseium brands yet, but they look better every year.

soggy wrote:

They can’t be more crude or less reliable then what the Japanese OEM’s were pumping out in the 80’s.

RDnutz wrote:
I don't know how old you are, but I disagree with premise Japanese OEMs were pumping out crude bikes in the 1980's. I lived through it...

I don't know how old you are, but I disagree with premise Japanese OEMs were pumping out crude bikes in the 1980's. I lived through it and rode the really basic crude stuff and unreliable if you want to talk about most the European stuff that made it to USA in the 1960's. The technology advanced by leaps and bounds by the time big 4 arrived here starting to sell purpose made race bikes. People take for granted single shock rear suspension, water cooling, reed valve induction, disc brakes and more. Go watch a documentary or even written accounts of the 1976 US Motocross season with names like Marty Smith, Bob Hanna, etc. and you'll see what I am talking about. New motors, frames, etc. were being introduced during the season- sometimes every few weeks- pushing the boundaries of what existed, searching for every possible competitive advantage. The claiming rule mostly ended that when it was ruled Production representative bikes could only be raced and sold. The individual character of the bikes became homogenized, and then the adoption of 4-strokes made it even worse so now what is raced is basically similar bikes- save for colors and graphics differences. They have no soul or sense of heritage from individual manufacturers that started it all and got us to this point.

I'd say both are true. A bike from 1980 and a bike from 1984 are two different animals. 75-78 saw major changes, then minor refinements into 1980. Then all hell broke loose again. By 1988 the only major change until the 4T era was USD forks.

RDnutz
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12/22/2025 4:52pm

I have a 1987 YZ125 with power valve and BASS anti-hop system on rear brake + shock. Do those count? Also have a 1994 Yz125 with power valve. 

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