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I think that 190 motor makes about 27 hp. We have the biggie 190. My son uses it all the time for trail riding around the house with his buddies on 110s. They all want to ride his 190. They just need a new class that requires air cooled 4 strokes under 200 cc.
The great thing about that Daytona 190 motor is that it’s virtually used all over the world and there’s parts everywhere for it.
Off the top of my head -
most precision engine parts, seat foam/covers, tanks, electronics, frames, some suspension items
While some of them were possibly available in the aftermarket (and may still be), most of that has dried up by now and the supply obviously gets thinner with each passing day.
Cylinders, PV parts, transmission and clutch components, engine cases, cracked/rotted tanks, electronics, broken/stretched frames and damaged/worn out suspension parts have been common items I've seen that sidelined guys that I knew who were into it. Yes, most anything can be reverse-engineered if you want it badly enough, but at what cost? And as a lot of the used engine parts dried up, the prices got astronomical on places like eBay. It seems like the KIPS parts for the KXs was one of those. Maybe someone started making replacements?
I'm sure there are others on here that are/were into it that can answer much better than I have, but that's what I remember off the top of my head. You had to really be into it and have parts sources identified, plus have multiple bikes on hand so that at least one was always running while waiting on parts for others.
I know I would certainly consider buying and racing a bike that had the same level of technology and quality as the early 80's bikes. From the looks of the Kove and a couple of the other Chinese bikes I think they're about there. I really think the thing that would push something like this into the mainstream would be if the manufacturer set up a series for there bikes with some sort of incentive system.
They can’t be more crude or less reliable then what the Japanese OEM’s were pumping out in the 80’s.
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The Daytona 190 is around 23hp, pretty common to bbk to 212.
the Kove is light years more advanced then what was being produced in the 80’s
I don't know how old you are, but I disagree with premise Japanese OEMs were pumping out crude bikes in the 1980's. I lived through it and rode the really basic crude stuff and unreliable if you want to talk about most the European stuff that made it to USA in the 1960's. The technology advanced by leaps and bounds by the time big 4 arrived here starting to sell purpose made race bikes. People take for granted single shock rear suspension, water cooling, reed valve induction, disc brakes and more. Go watch a documentary or even written accounts of the 1976 US Motocross season with names like Marty Smith, Bob Hanna, etc. and you'll see what I am talking about. New motors, frames, etc. were being introduced during the season- sometimes every few weeks- pushing the boundaries of what existed, searching for every possible competitive advantage. The claiming rule mostly ended that when it was ruled Production representative bikes could only be raced and sold. The individual character of the bikes became homogenized, and then the adoption of 4-strokes made it even worse so now what is raced is basically similar bikes- save for colors and graphics differences. They have no soul or sense of heritage from individual manufacturers that started it all and got us to this point.
Gpx fse300e is like a fuel injected XR, I believe the engine is based on Honda's crf300f.
The TSE250R is an updated WR200.
I AGREE. I LOOKED AT HONDA'S WEBSITE AND IT LOOKS PRETTY SOLID. BUT IT COULD USE BETTER SUSPENSION AND IT NEEDS A SERIOUS DIET 271 LBS IS INSANE. IF YOU FELL AND IT WOUND UP ON TOP OF YOU, YOU'D BE F'D LIKE CHUCK!
Amen! This is a fact!
Thanks!
It seems a business could be formed to make a lot of these parts, but in order for it to be cost effective, the models supported would have to be limited.
Making one off parts is time consuming. If dozens could be made and sold, that would help drive down the costs.
Building frames may not make sense, because it would be too tempting to make improvements, like using Chromoly instead of mild steel.
I really like vintage bikes, and racing them would be really cool!
Exactly; it's the economy of scale. There are sources for body plastics for some models that are popular, but it's still nowhere near the prices of the readily available stuff for current models - not enough production to reduce the cost per piece. I've never priced injection molds but the ones I've heard pricing on were seven figures. Gotta sell a lot of product just to break even.
And yes, I'd love to have a modernized version of the original FF RM125... but I'd have to roll my own and that would run into the tens of thousands (if not more) even if I used a YZ engine... and I can't say I'm that nostalgic. 😄
there are a couple vendors out there stocking most everything needed (except OEM engine parts) to repair/restore vintage mx bikes.
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there's 1 in New Mexico I can't remember right now and at least 1 in Australia.
Yamaha production YZs had chromoly frames (starting 1973) while MXs had mild steel.
Since there are a lot of people with old bike knowledge on this thread I'll ask here:
What would you suggest for myself for a 1980-1985 vintage racer? I currently have a 79 PE250, 81 IT175 and modern bikes. AA level off road racer. I'd like to to the vintage class at the Odessa Desert 100, which allows 1985 and older. I'm a Suzuki guy, but for this I'd go any direction that would be the most competitive. I don't believe the PE250 I have would be a good weapon to compete for a win. I'm looking around at early 80s Husky's, Suzukis or Hondas mostly at the moment.
Desert racing is not in my resume', but if it's as wide open as some I've seen, maybe an '85 CR500 or an RM465? IIRC, the CR and '81 RM have 5-speed gearboxes and the '82 has a 4-speed with a larger countershaft and beefier gears that supposedly cover the same spread of ratios, just a wider differential between them. That FF suspension is hard to beat if you've got a sound one.
Pit Row
Trail bike class! KLX140s, it’s a blast!
I have a Crf250F that I use on the farm, fun bike for railing corners on roads. If I rode in mountains more it would probably be my choice. Easy standover height and reminds me of early 80s Suspension. I wouldn't take it out into the endless whooped sand trails in juniper dunes. At 265 lbs I wouldn't want to take it around a moto track.
"Remaking" vintage type bikes defeats the entire point of using vintage bikes for vintage racing and people that would buy that type of bike would never be able to appreciate the time, money, and effort etc it takes to find, build and race one.
Exactly!
I have an 08 TTR230. Why is it the suspension was a million times better on my 84 XR200 I had when i was a teenager then the modern TTR230?
And while I'm at it, put a damn kickstarter back on entry level bikes.
That CRF300 might be a good step up, it’s got 41mm conventional forks, I’d guess that it compares to the old XR250-400s fairly well?
Up until recently I was involved with AHRMA as a rider and even sat in on conference calls in the SE region of AHRMA in 2023 to try to get that going again. It's still not going today very well.
I suggested in 2023 that we get a Chinese manufacture to manufacture an air cooled low tech bike specifically to race. Either 2 stroke or 4 stroke that was easy to work on and manufacture as a "spec" bike and it would help spur people to get back onto the sport and attract new riders/racers. Built for around 4 to 5 grand. Kinda like what your suggesting, but just new and readily available unlike a 1979 yz 125 that is not.
Let Me tell you, that went over about as well as a lead filled Zepplin. They were "Not Interested!"
I'd say both are true. A bike from 1980 and a bike from 1984 are two different animals. 75-78 saw major changes, then minor refinements into 1980. Then all hell broke loose again. By 1988 the only major change until the 4T era was USD forks.
I have a 1987 YZ125 with power valve and BASS anti-hop system on rear brake + shock. Do those count? Also have a 1994 Yz125 with power valve.
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