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I have a 23 ktm 350sxf and it seems alot of people like the 23.5mm offset triple clamps on the 23+ chassis. This was something I was contemplating trying but I see FCP have released there race cups for the ktm. I'm wondering if i might be better off going with the race cups instead of the 23.5 clamps as I already have the factory edition clamps.
Anyone have any experience with FCP race cups vs offset clamps? I know they have only just been released for ktm but have been around awhile for other brands. Just wondering what difference the rider would feel between each option?
What specific issue are you trying to solve?
I don't have any major complaints, I actually really like my bike. I mainly like trying different things on bikes cos I can ha ha. But if I'm being picky I feel like I could use a little more stability in the front end entering fast choppy corners.
Try messing with your fork height and settings first they will make a much bigger difference, those FCP races I think are pretty silly for anyone but really fast and picky guys. They only change your head angle by .33 degrees which is not a lot especially for $600.
I doubt I could feel 1/3 of a degree in rake change. I did feel the difference in the 23.5mm offset clamps vs the 22mm clamps on my 23 CRF450R.
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I think the change has more to do with flex character than the offset if it's .5 or less.
Changing my results from 8th to 5th.
I have played with settings quite a bit and have a well setup set of kyb forks on my bike. I'm currently running the forks flush so can't really go much further on that. I guess that is really my question, what will make more of a difference, 1/3 of a degree in rake or 1.5mm change in offset? Or will I even be able to feel either.
Rake will change the entire feel. I wouldn't mess with it. Offset is an adjustment but a dramatic one. 1.5 you can feel but some folks may not. I have never been one to like fork height adjustments, plenty of other options. Try it and see if you like it. I did and didn't.
From a geometry standpoint, triple clamp offset and rake are two rather different things. However, increasing offset will result in similar handling changes to increasing rake. Both are noticeable to most riders. If you’re the kind of rider who can go three laps without noticing a flat tire, then these may not be for you! But if you can feel the difference when you adjust your clickers, you’ll feel the difference here.
The right way to alter rake is to use what’s typically referred to as “offset races” (not to be confused with fork offset). These are bearing races custom ground at an angle (bearing surface relative to outer diameter). They use OEM bearings and seals, and only the races themselves change. But this can be expensive to manufacture and isn’t possible with common machining equipment.
FCP’s approach is to use smaller bearings than stock, that sit in machined aluminum cups to change their offset and (hopefully) angle in the frame. This “works”, but comes with some compromises. You no longer have high quality OEM bearings and you have oddly sized bearings. You also lose the nice OEM bearing seals, as those are replaced with a simple o-ring sealing system which isn’t nearly as good.
And $600 is nuts! You’re getting two identical, and fairly simple machined aluminum parts, a flat piece of titanium (ti for looks only, nothing to do with function), and a set of mediocre bearings. It works, but I feel there’s better ways to spend $600…
For only $100 more, you can get a set of 23.5 offset clamps (our Gen3 model, $699.96). Those include two highly engineered and quite complex parts (clamps), electropolished and anodized finish, a steering stem, stem spanner and lock nuts, OEM bearing and seal, and pinch bolts. You get the offset change, plus better feel and handling (due to stiffness changes), higher strength, and they look cool! Clearly I’m biased, but if you just look at what you’re actually getting for your money, clamps are a lot more bang for the buck!
Easier to sell a lightly used set of triple clamps than race cups, in my opinion. Just in case you don't like the change (worst-case scenario)...
$600 for some bearings is rape.
Thanks for your detailed response, it is very appreciated. I've been wanting to get a set of your clamps for awhile but the exchange rate in Australia is terrible at the moment. Think I might just have to bite the bullet, it's only money hey 🤣
This. The price of the FCP cups is an daylight robbery. Must be the largest margin on a product in the off-road industry history.
Im a process engineer at a big CNC shop and those headset cups are a joke at $600, the fact someone hasn't done this earlier is surprising as well, this concept has been around in the mountain bike world for a decade. Your clamps are a fair price IMO, lots of machining and the R&D even just from a not breaking in half perspective is alot.
Works components sells their kits for about $75 and in reality its really not all that different for the dirtbikes at all. Also they sell kits from 1-2 degrees, .3 degrees is very very small adjustment even on a mountain bike I can hardly notice 1 degree adjustment. Feel like these photos illustrate sort of what these cups do for both MTB and Motos.
The cups are so no many people won’t have experience with them yet. You’ve got the means be our test mule.
FCP cups cost is high but they do just what is needed and my own opinion are better option for Honda/Yamaha new gen bikes than offset triple clamps at track. Wont ever get back money spend on them but they just transformed my Honda CR450f to different bike. Triple clamps are better value and you can easily move them to next bike or sell them.
I'm expecting someone to make a much cheaper version of the race cups. It looks like it would be easy to copy with the technology machinist have today. I know it would be a little tricky getting the angle vs the length of the steering head so the angle would be right on the bearings, but doable.
tek14,
what year make model honda do you have? I have a 2025 CRF450. I dont get a lot of head shake BUT its not confidence inspiering as if I feel like im almost over the front wheel at times. I also have a 2025 Triumph 450 that I feel much more confident on, BUT I like the honda motor and ergos better. If I could keep most of the hondas cornering and feel but gain some confidence I would probably sell the Triumph. The only other issue I have with the Honda is a harsh feel in the rear on the honda. I suspect this may be in the chassis itself. It was ther with stock suspension and its still there with modifyed suspension. What can ya tell me about your experience?
Pit Row
I got the FCP Race cups for my 2024 YZ450F and they where magical. My 24 YZ450F had a very bad habit of a front end twitch on turn into and it was enough to spook you. Didnt matter the how tight we ran the steering stem nut, or fork height we ran, and we where toying with some crazy ones. Race cups solved the issue, they are pricy, but I felt they did the job.
Though they might not be as effective in all aspects, for all bikes.
love this.. !!!
CRF250R 2025
My son have oversteer in middle of the corner and out, I see him catch it with the handlebar (quick twitch)
Low and middle speed corners that is.
Some ides that we can try ?
he have tried sitting further back but then front are "loose"
I'd try fork rebound damping first, it affects oversteer vs understeer. On the previous gen bike I swear by the 23.5mm clamps. It was a no compromise upgrade, all gain no detriment.
i have a 24 ktm 450. tried the ride engineering 23.5 offset clamps and noticed absolutely nothing better about them than stock offset. so i took them off right sway. i struggled prettly good with headshake. bit the bullet and spent the money on fcp cups and my handlebars have not wiggled in my hands since. imo the cups are very expensive for what you get but for me the work a million times better than offset clamps. only thing i noticed and i read the same things in reviews is that after you install them you have to find a new fork base setting. wasnt hard at all. couple clicks on compression and i went in a turn on the shock spring and my bike was a complete game changer. also the REP complete linkage was also one of the best things i bolted on my bike.
2024 CRF450. My feeling is cups made whole bike much better for me. I have now 2025 CRF250 stock form and its great with no need for Cups.
I don't know why, but this stupid math problem randomly popped in my head last night and wouldn't go away! I failed at the mental calculations in my head so I took a look this morning so I could keep this from EVER EVER interrupting my sleep again.
With a fork measuring 950mm from top of the tube to lug and a 28 degree take, going from 22 to 23.5 offset extends your wheelbase by 1.55mm and lowers your front 0.82mm.
Changing your rake 0.33 degrees out extends your wheelbase out 4.14 mm and lowers the front 2.36mm so it's a much bigger change.
I never did the maths but my thoughts were always the rake would have more of an effect than offset. Your maths agrees.
Think I'd still rather spend the money on triple clamps than the overpriced cups. Surely someone else will produce something similar at a reasonable price.
Maybe add more rider sag out back or linkage that will drop the rear a little.
The cups will give you a bigger change in high speed stability. The offset will give you some but also will change the steering input character. If you are just looking for stability the cups is the move. If you want bling, some stability added or maybe split clamps, the clamps are the way to go.
Run your rear axle back farther. This will also increase weight bias to the front a bit, so more traction.
I know it takes some precision machining to make the race cups, but I'm wondering when someone makes a less expensive version.
agreed, almost 700 with shipping, I just cant bring myself to do it, will wait till theyre more reasonable
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