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Hate to say it but told you all so
- admits that he and all their local racer friends cheat in this class through a gentlemens agreement (this is same in every major race area)
- keefer admits 125 class no bike is truly stock (same as pw class)
- admits that he knows a lot of other dads cheating at LL
Solution - if your kid really is as big as you say he is, they have a class for you - cobra jr. Go do that
Evey class has cheating to some extent im sure. But the pw class is by far the most. A person commented earlier that their friends kid got 4th or so and didn't get on podium but had a stock bike. Im sorry to break it to you but hes a liar as well. they might be cheating the least and thats honorable i guess, but they are still cheating. How do i know for a fact? well because he got 4th... Get a tiny lightweight kid that is the fastest 50 rider in the world. put him on a stocker at the ranch and watch him get walked by a bunch of kids he would smoke on a FWE. This scenario only rings true for one class at the ranch
There is NO bike in the pw class (in recent years) that is stock, per the rules. The kids in the back cheat the most sometimes because they know no inspection.
Im not saying this to brag, im an anon poster. I have plenty of expendable income. My son wanted to go to LLs. I rode motocross my whole life and wasnt too keen on my him eventually riding at highest level in later years (educational reasons primarily + lifetime of injuries). He and all his buddies were trying to get there together. I had 2 pws built by 2 different shops. fully built. my biggest thing was when talking to both separate engine builders. i dont care how much it costs. make it the fastest bike you can within the legal limits. so if i gets torn down i dont get exposed. both engine builders called me to say essentially "so what do you consider cheating" lol. Things like "no one will ever see this, they dont even know to look for this or what to look for here". I had by far the 2 most expensive bikes on the track built by i wont say who but 2 very well known builders. To see my son get pulled on a start or a big straight by some kid staring at his front fender and sitting with elbows down after a bad gate jump was pretty annoying. Hence the $50 bore kit from amazon eddie mentioned
We made it past areas and soon went to regionals. around regional time i had enough of it. i no joke brought over $20k of cash i happened to have at home and threw it in my RV. i went to regionals with the plan to protest every single bike for multiple items. Really just to prove a point. you get your money back if you are correct. you have to name what you want to protest, ie - exhaust (many people drill holes in the baffle), bearings (they make stamped bearings that look same as factory but are ceramic), displacement, etc. List goes on. I called an AMA official I know who has worked LL event prior and told him my plan. Figured out logistics of how i could be first to do something like this.
My wife persuaded me it was not worth it and didn't feel like pissing off every parent in the community. im convinced i would had my kid realistically been the only non DQd finisher. But i probably would have gotten in a fight as well. And again, a lot of these people are our friends so its tough spot.
Ive said this already and will say again, I enjoy the class. I sound like I hate it. But i do strongly feel frustrated with the rules and enforcement. I would love to see all the kids on an actual stock bike even if its just at the ranch. The ideal would be Yamaha sponsoring the event and being able to change bars, pegs, graphics, few items. I understand that might not be feasible solution but at least there i could watch the fastest kids on a level playing field. Or alternative - Let a few engine mods that make all the small, and mostly expensive, cheating mods pointless. Allow big bore up to 60 etc.
Eddie is right that weight is probably the most important thing in the PW class. If you are heavy the cobra jr has all the power you need and you should be there. PWs are fine on dry fast tracks with limited ruts. But anything thick, hilly or rutted the mods make all the difference in the world.
im happy this whole issue is being brought to light really. my childless moto friends and i sit around and laugh at how stupid insane this class is when i tell them stories and its nice to be able to air the dirty laundry somewhere else. In one way i guess im so jaded i can see why Eddie did this. at some point its just like F it. and if you dont have a ton of money to spend then the easiest/quickest way is a big bore
This shit is like going to a body building competition and then asking if anyone has tried steroids. its such a weirdly taboo topic in the mini dad world.
Yamaha needs to put that thing out of its misery and just release an electric bike that's easier to referee. Japanese don't like taking risks or being first to market tho.
How do you refer to your kids age as AMA 5, bolt a cheater motor in for regionals, LLs and have to compose yourself when they win and not identify as a 50 Dad?
Can’t believe Vital is platforming you dude 😂
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Riveting.
Solution, Yamaha sponsors the race and provides the same bike for every kid on the gate. No need for dumb redneckery. I don't think Steve thought Eddie was going to make himself look like that big of an idiot.
I’m now convinced that it’s not really LL’s unless it generates a controversy that goes on for over 10 pages. PW cheating? Some folks have way too much time and money on their hands.
The unsung hero of this segment was the guy that called in while eddie was still on the phone and called him out saying hes not really sorry. He said exactly what we are all saying here lol. Props to that guy.
Because he identifies as a 60 dad
Why there's no ban for cheating in AMA and / or cheaters don't get black balled in the industry when caught is beyond me... Moto media should have an interview with AMA asking these questions... Time to turn up the heat!
Lmaoooo
How about 60+ yr old men that display unsportsmanlike conduct and cut the course at local enduros?
😂😂
Gold!
The stories in this thread of mini dads and engine builders and cheating in the PW class is eye opening, and my question is, why? Why go through all the trouble for PW class glory when there are two other classes (I think?) your kid could race where the equipment isn't such a limiting factor? I associate PWs with kids that are just learning to ride, fresh off training wheels. If your kid is feisty at such an early age, put him on a race bike.
I just don't get why anyone would want their kid to train or spend time at the Ray's place anymore,
If anything it made them look worse. Why is it such a bad thing he was on?
Especially when they've done it for how many years...
Pit Row
Shitty part of the sport for sure. Eddie did not do himself any favors by calling in. I really had no opinion of LL cheating and the PW class until listening to Eddie spend 15 minutes trying to justify why he did it.
The rules are pretty clear on getting caught cheating on the bike. First offense is a DQ. Second offense is 1 year suspension. Before I was in this position I was an AMA Congressperson. I introduced proposals on several occasions (6-10 years ago) to make it a 1 year suspension on first offense. It never got enough votes to be passed out of the Motocross Committee. We have our annual meeting of the Motocross Commission in October. It is on the agenda to discuss stiffening the penalties for cheating.
Also, just about every person we have caught cheating justified it by saying everyone else does. One would have to be naive to think there is no cheating going on, but I can say this for certain. The kid who ended up winning the Shaft class at Loretta's was on a legal bike! Tim McAdams and Tad Dewalt tore that thing down to the frame. It was the most exhaustive PW50 tear down I have ever seen and every part was fine.
At the end of the day the process worked. The kid who was illegal was DQed, and the kid who won passed the most thorough PW50 teardown I have ever seen, validating his win.
I have been officiating races for 25 years and now 6 years at the AMA. After doing hundreds of teardowns, I would say 8 out of 10 bikes protested are found to be legal.
Available any time for questions, here or via e-mail. Any press who want to discuss, email me your number and I will call you.
mburkeen@ama-cycle.org
Mike Burkeen - AMA Deputy Director of Racing
My point was that the end result may have made him look worse, but that wasn't the goal of the spot, Steve is friends with the guy. He didn't have him on on to make him look bad. It was a spot to give a cheater a chance to explain himself. This is an AMA track owner who cheated. This isn't some random parent. This guy should have his AMA promoter license suspended for a year or two and not given a chance to defend himself. Did Steve have any of the other parents from the podium on to get their thoughts? No just the guy who cheated.
You guys can gargle the pulp balls all you want. I've said it over and over, I like Steve and I like his content. I just don't like having a guy that's a known cheater on to defend himself.
You leave pro125 alone!
Mike, there's only about a million posts on this forum questioning or debating AMA rulings, which let's be honest, can be all over the map. As a member of this board, and having been so for almost 20 years, I hope you'll engage these conversations and address the countless complaints/issues that people have with the AMA and to do so publicly. The AMA has a horrendous reputation amongst riders and involvement of folks like yourself could go a long way. Thanks.
Thank you for the response as I can only assume more forum members were wondering the details and transparency. We can only hope that the vote for stiffer penalties will be approved as it is not working as a deterrent, currently. Why it would not receive enough votes to stiffen the penalties in the past is concerning...
One can only wonder if there is a conspiracy amongst the top influencers of the sport to cheat or use other less than moral ways to keep their relevant status of being at the top.
Thank you for being an advocate for what is right.
I don’t get it either, since it’s more a beginner class. The fast 4-6 year olds ride the cobra 50 class…..
People will always question those that make the decision. However, you don’t have to hope he’ll engage as he frequently does even handing out his email. I would imagine backhanded, borderline dickish post like yours will do nothing but decrease the chances of him continuing to do so.
“The only people that are mad are these crazy 50 parents.” The level of ignorance here is unbelievable.
How can you even say that when you literally cheated to do well in the 50 class…if you didn’t care just let the kid have fun and get last place in on a legal bike. Dude would probably be throwing a tantrum if his kid got fourth and missed a podium chance while the kid in first was caught cheating.
It really should be the most innocent class there. I like the idea that has been thrown around with Yamaha providing 40 stock PW50s that get used for that one race and sold as used after. Might be a slight headache in organizing it but Yamaha would lose next to nothing in doing this. Those kids/bikes don’t NEED any suspension mods. Maybe allow the dads to change tires and that is it.
Steve didnt invite him on. Eddie said he would be like to call in and tell his side of the story. There is nothing wrong with that. It probably cost Eddie business and certainly respect in the community.
I’m always for having more sides of the story. Eddie provided his side. We may hear from other sides going forward.
Thanks for clarifying, Mike. However, this isn't just an issue of a cheating parent. This is an owner of a track that has AMA sanctioned races. My family owned an AMA track for decades. When you're an AMA promoter, it's your job to enforce the AMA rule book and standards. How can you have a sanctioned promoter openly flouting the rules and cheating the youngest and most vulnerable riders in our sport? This guy gets to cheat your national championship and then make money off your brand less than a month later?
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