Have motocross bikes gotten to fast and capable?

I agree to an extent… bikes are over powered these days. But I personally know kids who have passed way on 65’s & 85’s. I think taming jumps down a little/ a lot would do more for rider safety than limiting a bikes top speed. While big jumps are great crowd pleasers they don’t add a lot to the racing. 

No. That’s like equating that to a crash on a moped or a crash on a 1,000cc street bike, or a golf cart and a Lamborghini. 

"the obvious superiority"  oh yeah like running out of juice after 30 minutes and not being able to just gas back up and go.

or the extremely expensive and heavy batteries that wear out. 

or the motors that may be reliable but when they do break you cant just throw in a new piston and rings and ride.

Doesnt sound superior to me

Skill is no longer a factor in MX (to some extent.)  What I mean by that is when I was 20 on my 1998 CR250 I could not jump certain jumps out of corners, I did not have the SKILL to carry enough corner speed to make said jump.  My skills have improved over the years but not as much as bikes have.

I feel now the limiting factor to go fast and make big obstacles is FEAR, not SKILL. Some people just don’t have fear to do certain things…I do!  Haha. I see some people at the local tracks that clear obstacles, and do things on a bike that I won’t do, who are sketchy ass hell. I won’t go to that level even though my bike can. 

I feel like you are partly correct. Tracks have changed as the bikes have changed. A few years ago when I was still riding there were no jumps on the track I did on a 450 that I couldn’t do on a 125. I feel like the tracks are a lot faster now and less technical. 

definitely seems like there are always some people who are just more willing to jump stuff that maybe others would say they arent ready for, and usually this means they get more experience with jumping because they are willing to just hit shit, which builds confidence and skill over time.   Which sometimes leads to people hitting bigger doubles and triples in D class races.   I definitely think with 250fs and 450s nowadays in C class in certain places alot of guys are rolling through corners and just pinning it to hit the jumps , hitting jumps that theyre actual riding skill level would never allow them to do on a 125 or even a 250 2 stroke. but, if thats what it takes to get the experience and confidence...

I have never been one to go out and try to hit big jumps before i feel like I've paid my dues as far as getting the bike control and skill and comfort to where I'd have the speed and confidence to naturally hit those jumps without it being too big of a deal.

Bikes, rider technique and tracks have all 'improved' an awful lot over the last 25 years but the human body has remained the same and can only handle so much trauma. Can't see anything changing and the trend will continue.

I think it's combination tracks being faster with bigger jumps together with more powerful and heavier bikes that doesn't require experienced rider to go relatively fast. Back in two stroke era you need to had good cornering skills to keep up the momentum to be able to go fast enough to clear the big jumps. With modern 450 you need just blip of a throttle to clear a big jump. This is of course compensated by the track builders by building even bigger jumps...

The added weight of the current bikes is in my opinion one part of the problem. Newtons law (Force = Mass x Acceleration) is pretty unforgiving when you are wrestling with bike that weights over weights over 100 kg (220 lbs)           

Bikes have always been fast and dangerous, but yes the problem now is the fact it’s easier to go fast on them. Less skill required ends up badly for a lot of people. Tracks are faster, jumps are bigger and more SX style now. Perfect storm and imo not healthy for the future of the sport. Honestly some of the safest days I’ve seen at the track are when it’s super deep and challenging to the point some jumps were almost impossible except for the A guys. Might ride around bitching at the time but on the ride home I realized for all the tip overs I had seen no one got seriously hurt throughout the day. 

I agree that the tracks are to fast and jumps are too big now. I've been riding all my life since the mid 60s. In the 70s when I was racing your speed was so much slower and the tracks were all about corners. The jumps were very small. When you crashed you very rarely got hurt. Now the bikes are so fast that the track builders have to build the tracks to the bikes capabilities. Even the vet tracks have jumps I won't do now.

I retired and moved to middle Georgia three years ago. The closet track is an hour away. It's flat and the track builder has a lot of jumps. About half are gap jumps. He makes them as safe as he can buy building nice slopping landings but at my age I don't like the gap jumps because it's either full jump or role them which is very dangerous. At least table tops you can jump as far as you are comfortable with.

I can ride well for my age but it's not worth it riding over my comfort zone. So now I don't go there to ride. I'm looking for some land so I can make a more old school track that's safe and slow speeds so I can continue to ride and have fun.

I got an old CZ 250 and plan to do AHRMA vintage races and move away from the modern bikes and tracks. I did one last fall and it was so much fun. Made me remember what fun riding was back in the 70s. I don't need big jumps to have fun on a dirt bike. 

Like others have said, it's a mixture of tracks and bikes. Most tracks now are wide open and jump after jump with SX style takeoffs. These bikes allow anyone to jump on and do things the have absolutely no business doing. One of the biggest examples is the kid that jumped the railroad tracks in Simi. I saw that kid at LACR a few times and can tell you he had nowhere near the skills it took to ever do that jump or even half of the ones he was doing at LACR, but he had no fear and a bike that allowed him to jump it with ease.

500 ported used in mini sprint cars put out 90-95 depending on what the racer wants. On a hard pack with clay powder hilly square holes track. I hv no problem on a stock 04 cr125 with oem oil in suspension. Beat any 250f or 450f rider but 1 . I never raced him but I think he’s faster , much younger too. Actually there all much younger.  On the most difficult bike to keep on the pipe.  On a huge national track big hp rules . But not on a local track. 125 b/c usually is close to the fastest lap times at LL. 

I don't know, how many times has the best racing been done in the back yard on 5 mini bikes. If they no longer made them there would still be racing and most likely the most fun to watch.

I think the current crop of SX class bikes 250'd and 450's are awesome machines. Guys can do things now never heard of just a short time ago.  

In terms of being "too fast"? No they are not too fast. Heck if there was an 800cc class guys would race them. Cause they are racers. 

But to address the elephant in the room, it is the responsibility of whomever decides at what point the danger is too high for a return on safety verses entertainment. Who are those people? I don't know?

But one rule applies and is inescapable no matter how hard we debate,  more speed and momentum always = more incidents for, and increased traumatic injuries for the participants.  

So the question is have we reached that threshold? 

The problem is us as humans. We take more risk now. I’ve said it before but we have glorified “sending it” and that doesn’t always work out. Some guys shouldn’t just send it. Huge difference between A-Ray sending it and Chase Sexton. Social media has only made it worse.

You can get a bottle of whiskey for $15 and do more damage than anything mentioned in this forum. 

know your capabilities and be careful when riding. Problem solved. 

I kinda disagree on this. This is not only problem of the amateur riders. There are no superhuman pro riders that handle speeds that current bike's are offering with out riski getting seriously injured.  After all the human body can take only so much.

Supercross has become last man standing challenge where half of the main players are injured before the season even hits the halfway point making the last half of the season a snooze fest.

In the past I always enjoyed watching 125 racing the most. Because it was more about pure riding skills than risk taking.  

I only stated that I think they are awesome machines. And for the reason I stated. Because they are - awesome machines. 

I then addressed the "are they too fast issue" by identifying that there is a risk vs reward when it comes to the types of machines being raced, and that those responsible for illuminating that line have failed. In so many words. 

My personal opinion is that we have crossed that line. Speed, traction, and momentum have increased very rapidly since the implement of the 4 stroke. I heard last week on a podcast that they now have a 50hp 250F. Also racing a 450 indoors is very similar to just racing a 500 smoker. 

When the AMA initially allowed a double displacement rule in terms of R&D'ing 4 strokes that was based off of the current crop of low compression bikes like the Honda XR and the Yamaha XT's. Gutless pigs. 

It is easy to assume that nobody ever though a 4 stroke would become what it has today, - Awesome! 

This topic has been debated so long it's such a dead horse. As we watch guys go down harder than ever and a more rapid alarming rate - a dead horse still remains. 

It is long past time that those who retain the interest in this sport start trying to figure out a displacement class/s that still allows for great racing while reducing as much risk as possible. Granted it will always be a dangerous sport. Just how dangerous is the answer. 

That's the thing that has always drawn me to motocross. GP level performance that was available to the average Joe.

There is no such thing as too much power. Don’t be a flaming homosexual.

No. the motorcycles are fine.

What has changed is the increased skill and fitness required to ride today's motocross tracks.

  I started riding when I was little, and now that Im a vet rider, I find that I have to be in much better physical shape, and have better cardio conditioning to be able to ride and race on modern tracks with large jumps and technical sections.    

The sport has evolved from flat dirt tracks with small bumps to what it is today, and it's not as easy for out of shape guys to have fun riding tracks any more.

Tracks have changed more than the bikes have.

We need to manage the speed.  All other motorsports do.  We do the opposite.

I ride a 125 for a reason.

If the industry wants to do it, let me know.  I have a plan for how to make the transition gracefully.

And the industry should want to change the displacement.  It means that over time, everyone who races is going to need a new bike, and aftermarket parts as well.

I don’t think they’re capable of fasting, therefore, have not. 

you put riders with little to no experience on a jump filled track . What do you think is going to happen. I've ridden a factory 450 bike and a varg. No faster than my 85 cr500 was.  cut down the jumps, let the track get rough and the speeds will slow. these days it's a drag race from jump to jump.  Supercross has ruined MX. Mostly the local track owners fault thinking bigger is better. 

Shit boxes, just like a tesla truck

Your last sentence, the opposite is true in the UK. We used to race on rough as guts, absolutely savagely bumpy tracks where you had to think and pick lines, ride around things would cause you problems. Now every track is ripped like MXGP, there's barely any bumps but it's flat-out with jumps and ruts everywhere. They're miles quicker than they were even ten years previous and it's getting worse with all the instagram heroes prasing slot-car tracks where three people just blew a knee or ankle because fundamentally, none of them can actually ride it. 

The bikes aren't faster as such, they're just easier for people to go faster on especially on wide open prepped tracks. I can't speak for the US, but we are literally diminishing the need for skill and technique over here with this weird rut obsession. 

We don't get too much rain in California, but when it does rain, it is sloppy clay ruts that destroy your motorcycle.

We get square edge curbs here that will knock your fillings out and break your wheels.  They are as hard as concrete.

This hill at Glen Helen was smooth as glass 5 hours before this photo of Phil was taken...

Non pros have been buying and crashing on bikes that are better than the rider since day one.  If anything newer bikes may be more versatile if the rider is mindful of his or her skill level.