Why Does Supercross/Motocross Stick to Such a Confusing Number System?

crt32
Posts
959
Joined
4/20/2015
Location
Oklahoma City, OK, USA

I saw the Chance Hymas thread, and it reminded me of something I’ve been thinking about for a while. My 5-year-old loves watching Supercross and Motocross, he even races himself. We watch videos from different years, and he’s got his favorite riders and their numbers memorized (if we stick to the same year).

The problem is, when a rider’s number changes, it really throws him off, understandably so. Locally, he knows all the kids by their numbers. He even knows Patrick Mahomes’ and LeBron James’ numbers without hesitation. In his mind, Coty Schock is #69, Deegan is #238, Jett is #18, Forkner is #64 etc. 

From a marketing perspective, the SX/MX number system seems like a mess. Try explaining it to a casual fan: “Well, some numbers are reserved, and this guy was the highest-finishing non-reserved rider, so he got to pick number 10, but it’s not actually 10… uh, yeah.” It’s confusing and unnecessary.

Wouldn’t it be easier (and better for branding) if riders just picked a number and kept it? Like, “This guy is #238 because his dad was #38,” or “He’s #322 because he was born on March 22.” And of course, #1 could still be reserved for the reigning champion, which makes sense.

In today’s world of social media, merchandise, and personal branding, a consistent number helps build recognition and fan loyalty. So why does the sport stick to this confusing number system? Why not adopt a system like at the local level, where you pick your number and it stays yours?

IMO if the riders with reserved numbers want to keep theirs let them, and then let every rider in point order from the previous season pick their number. And if they want to change it or keep it year after year let them, it's their personal brand so let them market how they see fit, but I assume most will run numbers that mean something to them or match their amateur identity. 

8
15
|
zehn
Posts
7885
Joined
1/15/2013
Location
Anchorage, AK, USA
2/21/2025 12:32pm Edited Date/Time 2/21/2025 12:42pm

Sorry my dude but a 5 year old is not the barometer for how a numbering system should work

I feel like a truly casual fan isn’t going to really wonder how numbers are chosen. The only people/place I see this brought up is on this forum

25
2
MOTO13
Posts
560
Joined
12/22/2017
Location
Elkhorn, WI, USA
2/21/2025 12:33pm

Ummm. No. SX/MX is one of the few sports where the numbers actually matter and actually mean something quite specific. Single digits for past champions etc...

1
6
BoxcarWilly
Posts
1179
Joined
10/5/2023
Location
Thunder Bay, ON, CA
2/21/2025 12:42pm

Everything is fine except for 250SX guys earning number points at full value. 

14
3
RichieW13
Posts
2467
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA, USA
2/21/2025 12:43pm
zehn wrote:
Sorry my dude but a 5 year old is not the barometer for how a numbering system should workI feel like a truly casual fan isn’t...

Sorry my dude but a 5 year old is not the barometer for how a numbering system should work

I feel like a truly casual fan isn’t going to really wonder how numbers are chosen. The only people/place I see this brought up is on this forum

Maybe it should be.  The best way to grow a sport is to hook the kids.

2
10

The Shop

zehn
Posts
7885
Joined
1/15/2013
Location
Anchorage, AK, USA
2/21/2025 12:44pm
zehn wrote:
Sorry my dude but a 5 year old is not the barometer for how a numbering system should workI feel like a truly casual fan isn’t...

Sorry my dude but a 5 year old is not the barometer for how a numbering system should work

I feel like a truly casual fan isn’t going to really wonder how numbers are chosen. The only people/place I see this brought up is on this forum

RichieW13 wrote:

Maybe it should be.  The best way to grow a sport is to hook the kids.

Who do the kids typically follow? The stars/top guys. Who have permanent numbers? I think you know the answer

4
1
Nairb#70
Posts
3912
Joined
2/25/2020
Location
Ivoryton, CT, USA
2/21/2025 12:45pm

Hymas and Chisolm are about the only examples of this, amd maybe Ciarincurulo.

1
1
Kevin852
Posts
438
Joined
9/27/2018
Location
Apple Valley, CA, USA
Fantasy
2/21/2025 12:49pm
Nairb#70 wrote:

Hymas and Chisolm are about the only examples of this, amd maybe Ciarincurulo.

AC? He is a past national champ. He had a single digit number. I do not see how his number is like Hymas or Chisolm. 

3
crt32
Posts
959
Joined
4/20/2015
Location
Oklahoma City, OK, USA
2/21/2025 1:27pm
MOTO13 wrote:

Ummm. No. SX/MX is one of the few sports where the numbers actually matter and actually mean something quite specific. Single digits for past champions etc...

But the points and numbers dont mean anything specific. 

Coty Schock 3rd in 250 East Supercross, 20th in 250 Motocross, and 18th in SMX....yet he is #37 for 2025? That makes no sense to a seasoned veteran of the sport, a 5-year-old, or a new fan. 

1
12
crt32
Posts
959
Joined
4/20/2015
Location
Oklahoma City, OK, USA
2/21/2025 1:32pm
zehn wrote:

Who do the kids typically follow? The stars/top guys. Who have permanent numbers? I think you know the answer

Coty Schock, JuJu, Forkner are some of his favorites and it doesn't make sense that their numbers change, his number doesn't change, his buddies numbers don't change, his dads number been #32 for 30+ years, Lebrons number doesn't change, Mahomes number doesn't change, Dale Earnhardt number didn't change, #23 was synonymous with Jordan...from a marketing standpoint numbers changing every year is a disaster. They need to stay the same for the riders to build a brand, whenever #___ flashes across the screen people need to associate that with a rider, regardless of year or brand. 

1
11
gt80rider
Posts
7046
Joined
4/19/2008
Location
Boulder, CO, USA
2/21/2025 1:35pm

what's actually confusing is this->

SMX is a 3 round series held on hybrid tracks... BUT...

Feld/MXS has started calling every SX and MX race an SMX... 

they can't have it both ways... you can't call actual SMX hybrid races SMX, then call every MX and SX race also SMX... that is super wonky AFFFF...  they say they trying to attract the mainstream viewers, then muddle it all up with non-sense WTFFFFFF.... 

and i'm not even gonna bring up the extra super stupid "world championship" part of SMX... LMAOOOOOO..

6
2
DonM
Posts
8676
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
Fantasy
2/21/2025 1:37pm
Nairb#70 wrote:

Hymas and Chisolm are about the only examples of this, amd maybe Ciarincurulo.

Actually those are three that are perfect examples of each level of numbers.....AC #9 former champ, Chisolm #11 earned a permanent number by finishing in the top 10 in total points one year and Hymas #10 he was the first person without a permanent number outside the top ten in points so he was assigned the first number available

1
zehn
Posts
7885
Joined
1/15/2013
Location
Anchorage, AK, USA
2/21/2025 1:49pm
zehn wrote:

Who do the kids typically follow? The stars/top guys. Who have permanent numbers? I think you know the answer

crt32 wrote:
Coty Schock, JuJu, Forkner are some of his favorites and it doesn't make sense that their numbers change, his number doesn't change, his buddies numbers don't...

Coty Schock, JuJu, Forkner are some of his favorites and it doesn't make sense that their numbers change, his number doesn't change, his buddies numbers don't change, his dads number been #32 for 30+ years, Lebrons number doesn't change, Mahomes number doesn't change, Dale Earnhardt number didn't change, #23 was synonymous with Jordan...from a marketing standpoint numbers changing every year is a disaster. They need to stay the same for the riders to build a brand, whenever #___ flashes across the screen people need to associate that with a rider, regardless of year or brand. 

Again, he’s 5 years old. What more needs to be said? 5 year olds also can’t prepare their own food, probably can’t read, struggle with basic addition and subtraction etc etc.

3
Nairb#70
Posts
3912
Joined
2/25/2020
Location
Ivoryton, CT, USA
2/21/2025 1:51pm

Everything is fine except for 250SX guys earning number points at full value. 

There ya go!

2
NotCore
Posts
743
Joined
8/9/2011
Location
Alpharetta, GA, USA
2/21/2025 1:53pm

#1 is last year's Champion

Sort 2-99 based on where they finished previous year, each year if not assigned permanent numbers.

Create criteria for permanent numbers and reserve 1xx (triple digits) for Top Riders and marketing.

Create criteria for visiting affiliates and dignitaries (MXGP) to use triple digits 2xx and up yearly.

 

This solves all complaints except those who don't like change. (I think)

I think the criteria of 'can you explain it to a five year old' is a great criteria for dirt bike fans. (including me)

1
1
crt32
Posts
959
Joined
4/20/2015
Location
Oklahoma City, OK, USA
2/21/2025 1:53pm
zehn wrote:

Who do the kids typically follow? The stars/top guys. Who have permanent numbers? I think you know the answer

crt32 wrote:
Coty Schock, JuJu, Forkner are some of his favorites and it doesn't make sense that their numbers change, his number doesn't change, his buddies numbers don't...

Coty Schock, JuJu, Forkner are some of his favorites and it doesn't make sense that their numbers change, his number doesn't change, his buddies numbers don't change, his dads number been #32 for 30+ years, Lebrons number doesn't change, Mahomes number doesn't change, Dale Earnhardt number didn't change, #23 was synonymous with Jordan...from a marketing standpoint numbers changing every year is a disaster. They need to stay the same for the riders to build a brand, whenever #___ flashes across the screen people need to associate that with a rider, regardless of year or brand. 

zehn wrote:
Again, he’s 5 years old. What more needs to be said? 5 year olds also can’t prepare their own food, probably can’t read, struggle with basic...

Again, he’s 5 years old. What more needs to be said? 5 year olds also can’t prepare their own food, probably can’t read, struggle with basic addition and subtraction etc etc.

I think you're missing the point. It's not about the 5 year old per se It's about marketing and making money. People have favorites and want to buy things with their favorite "athletes" number and wear it repeatedly. People still fly a #3 at Nascar races or still choose #23 for basketball related items because of Jordan. Numbers need to be consistent so the sport can better brand itself. Pastrana kept 199 for branding for example. 

2
4
2/21/2025 2:08pm Edited Date/Time 2/21/2025 3:26pm

The worst one was Mike Brown running number 3. Edit: I though he had number  2 but he was 3, Villopoto was number 2 

7
ACBraap
Posts
1169
Joined
2/10/2012
Location
Seattlish, WA, USA
Fantasy
2/21/2025 2:08pm

We had a great system where riders were ranked 2-99 based on the prior year points.  That was scrapped in favor of the current dumb system.  SX/MX governance is kind of like Congress.  When they make a change, there's a fair chance it'll be to the worse.

9
2
2/21/2025 2:23pm Edited Date/Time 2/21/2025 2:24pm

Do you hate F1 and NASCAR numbers too? 

zookrider62!
Posts
6825
Joined
12/22/2008
Location
Plano, TX, USA
2/21/2025 2:44pm
lostboy819 wrote:

The worst one was Mike Brown running number 3. Edit: I though he had number  2 but he was 3, Villopoto was number 2 

I don’t recall this

1
SPODEBOY
Posts
803
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Apple Valley, CA, USA
2/21/2025 2:48pm

The system makes zero sense. 2 classes 2 sets of numbers. Like every other and all other motor sports. 

5
2
2/21/2025 2:53pm

I bet this guy lost his mind when Stewart showed up running #259 at Daytona in 2012 too....

Or Reed running #8 at US Open SX for Langston in 2008..

3
Janko630
Posts
117
Joined
7/16/2018
Location
USA
2/21/2025 2:55pm

Retire #2 & #4 until their respective records are broken.

1
18
MOTO13
Posts
560
Joined
12/22/2017
Location
Elkhorn, WI, USA
2/21/2025 3:22pm
MOTO13 wrote:

Ummm. No. SX/MX is one of the few sports where the numbers actually matter and actually mean something quite specific. Single digits for past champions etc...

crt32 wrote:
But the points and numbers dont mean anything specific. Coty Schock 3rd in 250 East Supercross, 20th in 250 Motocross, and 18th in SMX....yet he is #37...

But the points and numbers dont mean anything specific. 

Coty Schock 3rd in 250 East Supercross, 20th in 250 Motocross, and 18th in SMX....yet he is #37 for 2025? That makes no sense to a seasoned veteran of the sport, a 5-year-old, or a new fan. 

Ok...name one sporting event where the numbers signify anything specific about the vehicle or person wearing that number. At least in mx/sx the #1 signifies last seasons champion and single digits are prior champions. 

2/21/2025 3:22pm
lostboy819 wrote:

The worst one was Mike Brown running number 3. Edit: I though he had number  2 but he was 3, Villopoto was number 2 

I don’t recall this

I think he ran 3 and not 2 

1
2/21/2025 5:00pm
zehn wrote:

Who do the kids typically follow? The stars/top guys. Who have permanent numbers? I think you know the answer

crt32 wrote:
Coty Schock, JuJu, Forkner are some of his favorites and it doesn't make sense that their numbers change, his number doesn't change, his buddies numbers don't...

Coty Schock, JuJu, Forkner are some of his favorites and it doesn't make sense that their numbers change, his number doesn't change, his buddies numbers don't change, his dads number been #32 for 30+ years, Lebrons number doesn't change, Mahomes number doesn't change, Dale Earnhardt number didn't change, #23 was synonymous with Jordan...from a marketing standpoint numbers changing every year is a disaster. They need to stay the same for the riders to build a brand, whenever #___ flashes across the screen people need to associate that with a rider, regardless of year or brand. 

I kind of get what your saying, but the system as it is leaves keeping a number pretty much up to the rider.  There are limited numbers, so they can't just choose any number.  Lots of riders kept a number without "upgrading" to a lower number.   Like Kenny keeping 94.  I don't see Jett ever changing from 18.  And it was fun to be on Vital when AP upgraded.🤣

1
APLMAN99
Posts
12496
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Tualatin, OR, USA
Fantasy
2/22/2025 2:18pm
crt32 wrote:
Coty Schock, JuJu, Forkner are some of his favorites and it doesn't make sense that their numbers change, his number doesn't change, his buddies numbers don't...

Coty Schock, JuJu, Forkner are some of his favorites and it doesn't make sense that their numbers change, his number doesn't change, his buddies numbers don't change, his dads number been #32 for 30+ years, Lebrons number doesn't change, Mahomes number doesn't change, Dale Earnhardt number didn't change, #23 was synonymous with Jordan...from a marketing standpoint numbers changing every year is a disaster. They need to stay the same for the riders to build a brand, whenever #___ flashes across the screen people need to associate that with a rider, regardless of year or brand. 

zehn wrote:
Again, he’s 5 years old. What more needs to be said? 5 year olds also can’t prepare their own food, probably can’t read, struggle with basic...

Again, he’s 5 years old. What more needs to be said? 5 year olds also can’t prepare their own food, probably can’t read, struggle with basic addition and subtraction etc etc.

crt32 wrote:
I think you're missing the point. It's not about the 5 year old per se It's about marketing and making money. People have favorites and want...

I think you're missing the point. It's not about the 5 year old per se It's about marketing and making money. People have favorites and want to buy things with their favorite "athletes" number and wear it repeatedly. People still fly a #3 at Nascar races or still choose #23 for basketball related items because of Jordan. Numbers need to be consistent so the sport can better brand itself. Pastrana kept 199 for branding for example. 

The NASCAR thing is an anomaly because the top drivers don’t change teams as often as in MX/SX, but the numbers are actually owned by the teams. 

There are positives and negatives to any numbering system. What we have right now is just about as good of a compromise between the two extremes as we are going to get. 

3
1
TKLEVEN
Posts
450
Joined
12/27/2022
Location
Carrollton, GA, USA
2/26/2025 4:04pm

riders should be able to choose a 2 or 3 digit that’s available and stick with it, until a number they prefer comes available. Just like current F1. 

We’ll save the single digit’s to the elite guys.

1
lumpy790
Posts
11464
Joined
9/18/2007
Location
York, SC, USA
2/26/2025 4:15pm

Everyone of these racers bust their asses trying to EARN enough points to be in the elite top 100 league.

The system is not what’s broken ….. and yes for the first couple of races of the year having to relearn who it is can be challenging but we deal with it.

1
1
2/26/2025 7:22pm
NotCore wrote:
#1 is last year's ChampionSort 2-99 based on where they finished previous year, each year if not assigned permanent numbers.Create criteria for permanent numbers and reserve...

#1 is last year's Champion

Sort 2-99 based on where they finished previous year, each year if not assigned permanent numbers.

Create criteria for permanent numbers and reserve 1xx (triple digits) for Top Riders and marketing.

Create criteria for visiting affiliates and dignitaries (MXGP) to use triple digits 2xx and up yearly.

 

This solves all complaints except those who don't like change. (I think)

I think the criteria of 'can you explain it to a five year old' is a great criteria for dirt bike fans. (including me)

Based on how they finished what?  450SX?  250SMX?  There are 7 different series with 7 different champions.  450SX.  250W, 250E, 450MX, 250MX, 459SMX, and 250SMX.  Combined points is dumb because you have 250 riders collecting a ton of points despite never having raced against the best riders.  The current system is just dumb in every way.   If we want them to run the number they finished, then each of the seven series should have a 1, 2, 3, 4, etc.  

1

Post a reply to: Why Does Supercross/Motocross Stick to Such a Confusing Number System?

The Latest