Upgrade to enjoy this feature!
Vital MX fantasy is free to play, but Premium users receive great benefits. Premium benefits include:
- View and download rider stats
- Pick trends
- Create a private league
- And more!
Only $10 for all 2026 SX, MX, and SMX series.
So if you don't like somebody, it's OK to steal from them?
So...is it Showa or "backdoor Showa"😏? The Chinese are very adept at "backdoor" products. Same production line...without the name brand.
A little off the production line for the contract annnnddd a little over there for us after hours. That's the stuff that sells on TEMU as clones like Mikuni, Lectron, Keihin, Scott, FMF, Thor, etc...
See that's the issue with Chinese production. They get the blueprints to produce stuff from the OEM and then they make it and sell it to compete with the real vendors. They can sell it cheaper because they don't incur any design costs.
I feel you Bro. I am definately not all in but you have to survive.
If it's someone that wants me and my family to either be under their rule against my will or cease to exist, YEP no problem with whatever happens to them. East Germany was such a great country🙄 they had to build a wall to keep their citizens IN...
The Shop
Free shipping: VITALMX
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
The suspension is from Yu-An, which is a large shock absorber company — they are an OEM for giants like BYD auto and CFMoto. It is somewhat Showa-like in general construction and appearance, but is neither a direct Showa clone nor a Showa “backdoor.”
The guy that imports them is not someone I'd give my business to, but if you're interested he's got a website.
https://www.kovemotousa.com/
From one of the Kove threads.
Clip for reference. It's Carson Brown blowing by weekend warriors. The results would most likely be the same if he was riding an 85cc.
Kove' came to play!
Be something if these things turn out to be sledge hammers.
You have just justified why it is OK for Chinese companies to steal IP from western companies, oh the hypocrisy!
Wait until The Trump Tariffs.
Hardly. There's a huge difference in the philosophy of a free country vs a communist one. Individuals don't own IP (or much of anything) in Communist countries. The government does. See, in the U.S., our small companies are actually owned by individuals who profit from their ideas. Stealing from them directly affects the individual. That's why the Japanese paid dearly for stealing the Full Floater design from Don Richardson and why they learned their lesson and later gladly paid Eyvind Boyeson for the use of his porting design.
It's ok if you choose to support the Communist Chinese but be prepared to learn Mandarin so you can communicate with your future leaders as they slowly gain control of every aspect of your life. They are slowly eating most countries from within due to the constant thirst for the lowest cost product.
Maybe don’t have cheap labor build your product and still charge full price then 🤷♂️
Lol, you have definitely never been to China. It's nothing like western media would lead you to believe, there are a ton of small, independently owned shops that specialize in specific forms of manufacturing (machining, extrusions, castings, etc.). Fun fact, they actually pay significantly lower taxes there than businesses do here in the good old freedom loving USofA.
"Individuals don't own IP (or much of anything) in Communist countries."
LOL, as @JM485 pointed out there are many independently owned business in China, there are also many patents that are owned by business and individuals, if you don't believe me, have a look yourself...
https://english.cnipa.gov.cn/
Meanwhile stop being a hypocrite by supporting theft from people, business and countries you don't like.
Theft is theft, no matter who the property is stolen from.
This post will basically get ignored as we’re seeing.
Jubal Brown is faster than at least 80% of Vitards.
At least get the guys name right. Ernst Degner.
And there it is.
I don’t know about that but it could be a buisness deal since we borrowed Trillions of dollars from them . Who do you think funds our economy? They do.. maybe it’s da da - great or Ho ha very good, hot show da, or beautiful Na eda or it could be how sha da - slow. I hv 3,4 girl fried in Joliet. Easy language to learn & much easier if you speak Native American. Because the Indians came from there or area of Asia 30k yrs ago.
This definitely happens all the time. I have a hard time feeling bad for these companies who have their IP stolen when they chose to send it to the CCP though. People have it in their heads you can’t manufacture in the US competitively, which is false. It is just easier to do in China, but this is the risk you take for that convenience.
Pit Row
So, our sport doesn't need cheaper, entry level bikes?
A utility PATENT is good for 20 years from the date filed. Showa has world wide patents, or patents everywhere their product is sold. Showa would sue KOVE directly if there is any copyright/infringement issues.
Triumph and Ducati have come up with an innovative design? Hmmm
Dave just goes on and on about suspension that took inspiration from Showa but ignores that the frame, engine and body work are all unique.
Are you upset with Triumph as well?
So many people mad at China while they post from their device that's made in China.
"People can get all caught up in something without giving it a true honest evaluation."
Isn't that what you are doing?
Didn't China innovate TikTok with a new way to spy on us?
Stealing speed is a must read for anybody interested in the history of motorsports, Mat Oxley books are terrific, get them while they go back in print sometimes otherwise people ask very unreasonable prices for used copies online.
https://matoxley.bigcartel.com/products
He's one of the greatest GP journalists, also wasn't too bad behind the bars (Isle of Man TT winner, 2nd at Le Mans 24h...)
There’s a few things worth noting.
-that motor is based off the NC250 (same bottom end but I guess kove requested a thinner bottom end for width and their own head). I’ve been unable to find what that motor is a clone of, but various Chinese brands have put them in 250-300cc street bikes, “sport bikes” (think ninja 250 level) and adventure bikes, and in those applications it seems pretty reliable.
-if a feller were wanting one to trail ride, there’s the 300 sold by GPX/Pitster pro as the 300FSE, and the TrailMaster LX300 and LX300 pro. I’ve actually ridden a harescramble on the TrailMaster, the tubes were too thin for rocky Arkansas stuff and the clutch got some play but overall it didn’t hold me back much if any for that application.
-Zongshen has a clone of the KTM 250sxf engine from 16-22, named the nx250. I assume all of these Chinese importers are going to ditch the NC250 engine as soon as they can get the NX model. I’d honestly say the NC engines wouldn’t be a bad off road bike, between the 6 speed, and crazy long service intervals they get thanks to the motors original intended use.
-mapping isn’t perfect on any of them. They use a Bosch MSE 8.0 ecu, same as a KTM 790, or cf moto, and the bright side is there’s freeware to tune them online, you just need the hardware.
Here’s some links for reference if anyone is curious:
https://www.gpxmoto.com/fse300r
Off-road 300, has a bigger tank than the Trailmaster. Retail $5999
https://kartingdistributors.com/trailmaster-jhl-pro-dirt-bike-lx-300-man-estart/
TrailMaster’s dual sport variant. The “pro” model has closed chamber forks, non-street legal, skid plate, beefier wheels, and aluminum radiator guards. Retail $4699 for dual sport and $4999 for pro model.
I can vouch that 16-22 model KTM plastic, wheels, suspension, and air filter fit. I assume the same holds true with the GPX.
https://m.alibaba.com/x/xOlMGtE?ck=pdp
That 2016-2022 KTM 250 engine clone. No clue how close it is, but one would have to assume that’s the direction the brands who want to actually join the fray use.
For everyone getting bent out of shape about supposed intellectual property theft in the suspension, have you ever seen a Showa fork and KYB fork next to each other? Or a shock for that matter? They both copy each other religiously and in reality there are only so many ways you can make a dual chamber motocross fork.
There's not some magic bullet design out there that is going to blow everyone away at this point so it's not surprising that we're seeing designs for a lot of aspects of modern motocross bikes converge towards a known entity that tends to work well overall.
It’s really just Dave that has an axe to grind.
Post a reply to: What am I looking at? Kove MX250