KTM to file for Bankruptcy/ Self Restructuring on Friday

FreshTopEnd
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FreshTopEnd 12/8/2024 9:29am
12/8/2024 9:29am Edited Date/Time 12/8/2024 9:30am
ns503 wrote:

And that's a damned shame. But totally justified.  This place has become a train wreck.

In fairness, it's as much me and what I would come to a board to engage in.  The advent of the IPhone and social media really changed the web forum environment.  There used to be  broader range of people involved in the industry, including riders and for me especially fellow photographers, on boards up until that gave them other outlets.  That's been a huge loss, not just because a few assholes made it not worth the bother.  It's much more fractured now, most if not all of those people engage in other ways and there has been an exodus of interesting engagement on forums.  

And forums used to be just that, but now seem to be sidebars to media ventures.   Nothing wrong with that, and Gibby and especially now Michael have done a really good job of creating a main page with really good content here; credit to them for adapting.  But that never was my reason for engaging with a site.  I don't have a lot of close by friends who are passionate about motocross with a common love of the sport, and forums were my outlet.  I made good friends, reconnected with others, and some opportunities came my way.  There always has been and always will be people who just want to shitbird people, there is no escaping that.  But for me as forums have evolved there is not a lot of fun to be had here in what I am looking for, and true or not it really feels like a grousing place where people are venting, or posturing, around complaints.  That's not fun for me.  Moto is supposed to be fun, even in the arguments.  Anything that makes moto less fun should be cut out.  I'm not interested in coming to the Peacock complaint box, or the shit on Deegan/Jett/Tomac/DC/etc/etc/etc forum. 

People have fun in different ways.  This board doesn't have to everything to everyone.  As much as I miss the former days, the people who post here have the board that they want and it works for them.  That's cool, but it no longer adds to my enjoyment of the sport.

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PTshox
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PTshox 12/8/2024 3:28pm
12/8/2024 3:28pm
ns503 wrote:

And that's a damned shame. But totally justified.  This place has become a train wreck.

FreshTopEnd wrote:
In fairness, it's as much me and what I would come to a board to engage in.  The advent of the IPhone and social media really...

In fairness, it's as much me and what I would come to a board to engage in.  The advent of the IPhone and social media really changed the web forum environment.  There used to be  broader range of people involved in the industry, including riders and for me especially fellow photographers, on boards up until that gave them other outlets.  That's been a huge loss, not just because a few assholes made it not worth the bother.  It's much more fractured now, most if not all of those people engage in other ways and there has been an exodus of interesting engagement on forums.  

And forums used to be just that, but now seem to be sidebars to media ventures.   Nothing wrong with that, and Gibby and especially now Michael have done a really good job of creating a main page with really good content here; credit to them for adapting.  But that never was my reason for engaging with a site.  I don't have a lot of close by friends who are passionate about motocross with a common love of the sport, and forums were my outlet.  I made good friends, reconnected with others, and some opportunities came my way.  There always has been and always will be people who just want to shitbird people, there is no escaping that.  But for me as forums have evolved there is not a lot of fun to be had here in what I am looking for, and true or not it really feels like a grousing place where people are venting, or posturing, around complaints.  That's not fun for me.  Moto is supposed to be fun, even in the arguments.  Anything that makes moto less fun should be cut out.  I'm not interested in coming to the Peacock complaint box, or the shit on Deegan/Jett/Tomac/DC/etc/etc/etc forum. 

People have fun in different ways.  This board doesn't have to everything to everyone.  As much as I miss the former days, the people who post here have the board that they want and it works for them.  That's cool, but it no longer adds to my enjoyment of the sport.

Well said.... 

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Timo
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Timo 12/8/2024 5:59pm
12/8/2024 5:59pm
BAREIN wrote:
Yes, way more niche than MOTO. It's pretty cool to watch the pros in person though and how good they can handle a sled. There was...

Yes, way more niche than MOTO. It's pretty cool to watch the pros in person though and how good they can handle a sled. There was a ton of money going into snocross  when it was at it's peak. Now it seems to be dying

As the climate changes and less snow falls fewer people will be buying snowmobiles.

5
9bro9
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9bro9 12/8/2024 6:28pm
12/8/2024 6:28pm

https://www.ksl.com/article/51206825/10-injured-after-police-traffic-officer-on-a-motorcycle-crashes-into-bystanders-at-california-parade

 

Shit like this doesn't help our sport, this is the type of shit the government makes their decisions based off of. Hope that everyone is ok.. 

2

The Shop

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ns503
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ns503 12/8/2024 6:55pm
12/8/2024 6:55pm
ns503 wrote:

And that's a damned shame. But totally justified.  This place has become a train wreck.

FreshTopEnd wrote:
In fairness, it's as much me and what I would come to a board to engage in.  The advent of the IPhone and social media really...

In fairness, it's as much me and what I would come to a board to engage in.  The advent of the IPhone and social media really changed the web forum environment.  There used to be  broader range of people involved in the industry, including riders and for me especially fellow photographers, on boards up until that gave them other outlets.  That's been a huge loss, not just because a few assholes made it not worth the bother.  It's much more fractured now, most if not all of those people engage in other ways and there has been an exodus of interesting engagement on forums.  

And forums used to be just that, but now seem to be sidebars to media ventures.   Nothing wrong with that, and Gibby and especially now Michael have done a really good job of creating a main page with really good content here; credit to them for adapting.  But that never was my reason for engaging with a site.  I don't have a lot of close by friends who are passionate about motocross with a common love of the sport, and forums were my outlet.  I made good friends, reconnected with others, and some opportunities came my way.  There always has been and always will be people who just want to shitbird people, there is no escaping that.  But for me as forums have evolved there is not a lot of fun to be had here in what I am looking for, and true or not it really feels like a grousing place where people are venting, or posturing, around complaints.  That's not fun for me.  Moto is supposed to be fun, even in the arguments.  Anything that makes moto less fun should be cut out.  I'm not interested in coming to the Peacock complaint box, or the shit on Deegan/Jett/Tomac/DC/etc/etc/etc forum. 

People have fun in different ways.  This board doesn't have to everything to everyone.  As much as I miss the former days, the people who post here have the board that they want and it works for them.  That's cool, but it no longer adds to my enjoyment of the sport.

Was always great to see your posts. Still is.

I still have that rimmage you sent me those years ago. Still waiting for a project. Maybe I'll just put them up on the mantle. 😁

1
Cortami79
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Cortami79 12/8/2024 11:44pm
12/8/2024 11:44pm
Spoonguy wrote:
Dirt bikes are a tough sell because of the enthusiasts lack of organization, community involvement, social conscience, and lack of responsibility for their actions. So as...

Dirt bikes are a tough sell because of the enthusiasts lack of organization, community involvement, social conscience, and lack of responsibility for their actions. So as not repeat myself you should read my whole.post on the matter.

BobPA wrote:
I am not disagreeing with you on those aspects. I am merely pointing out that dirt bikes are a much tougher sell, to the government. because...

I am not disagreeing with you on those aspects. I am merely pointing out that dirt bikes are a much tougher sell, to the government. because of three major issues erosion, dust, and noise. These issues are nearly impossible to combat no matter how banded together the moto community it. 

There is actually a story here in Europe where the community (citizens, entrepeneurs, KNMV and a few individuals) of Valkenswaard all came together to save the Eurocircuit from being closed permanently. 

They made an open case study where 

1. Every person in the Netherlands could share their story about the circuit and how it (positively/negatively) impacted their lifes. 

2. Every citizen around Valkenswaard could give their reasoning to close the place or why it should be open. 

The economic growth around the area during club/GP/Dakar events and the overall community satisfaction did outweigh the few complaining neighbours. They now have new permits and are allowed to remain open for practice and a few international events each year.

Same thing happened to Lierop and a few other places actually

17
gharmon
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gharmon 12/9/2024 9:03am
12/9/2024 9:03am
ns503 wrote:

And that's a damned shame. But totally justified.  This place has become a train wreck.

FreshTopEnd wrote:
In fairness, it's as much me and what I would come to a board to engage in.  The advent of the IPhone and social media really...

In fairness, it's as much me and what I would come to a board to engage in.  The advent of the IPhone and social media really changed the web forum environment.  There used to be  broader range of people involved in the industry, including riders and for me especially fellow photographers, on boards up until that gave them other outlets.  That's been a huge loss, not just because a few assholes made it not worth the bother.  It's much more fractured now, most if not all of those people engage in other ways and there has been an exodus of interesting engagement on forums.  

And forums used to be just that, but now seem to be sidebars to media ventures.   Nothing wrong with that, and Gibby and especially now Michael have done a really good job of creating a main page with really good content here; credit to them for adapting.  But that never was my reason for engaging with a site.  I don't have a lot of close by friends who are passionate about motocross with a common love of the sport, and forums were my outlet.  I made good friends, reconnected with others, and some opportunities came my way.  There always has been and always will be people who just want to shitbird people, there is no escaping that.  But for me as forums have evolved there is not a lot of fun to be had here in what I am looking for, and true or not it really feels like a grousing place where people are venting, or posturing, around complaints.  That's not fun for me.  Moto is supposed to be fun, even in the arguments.  Anything that makes moto less fun should be cut out.  I'm not interested in coming to the Peacock complaint box, or the shit on Deegan/Jett/Tomac/DC/etc/etc/etc forum. 

People have fun in different ways.  This board doesn't have to everything to everyone.  As much as I miss the former days, the people who post here have the board that they want and it works for them.  That's cool, but it no longer adds to my enjoyment of the sport.

I hate to see you go fte. I have never interacted with you that I recall but I always liked your posts and considered them a worthy read. I have seen your name here for as long as I can remember and I have been hanging out since about 2005'ish ( long before it was vital).  It is no longer my favorite place to be but about the only one I come to anymore.  I totally understand where you are coming from. Being in the medical field I always thought the FTE was cool title. It's a very cool story with amazing results. Here's to hoping you stay around somewhat. 

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MxAddic
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MxAddic 12/9/2024 7:46pm
12/9/2024 7:46pm

Thinking the creditors are going to give this guy a do-over is a pipe dream.

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8tensolutions
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8tensolutions 12/9/2024 8:00pm
12/9/2024 8:00pm
Last2Stroke wrote:

I can see a lawsuit coming...

https://fintelegram.com/ktms-collapse-how-pierer-and-blazicek-possibly-misled-investors-and-profited-amid-a-e2-9-billion-crisis/

8tensolutions wrote:

Link is not working for me.  Cliff note update?

Last2Stroke wrote:

image 828.png?VersionId=E

Thanks for sharing.....and if that is accurate it is clearly not good.

Spoonguy
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Spoonguy 12/10/2024 7:57am
12/10/2024 7:57am

I really cannot see this company mastering the kind of debt they have without growth. Obviously, they thought so as well. But they cannot grow any more than they already have, the market has retracted. They are in deep shit.

MxAddic
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MxAddic 12/10/2024 8:18am
12/10/2024 8:18am
Spoonguy wrote:
I really cannot see this company mastering the kind of debt they have without growth. Obviously, they thought so as well. But they cannot grow any...

I really cannot see this company mastering the kind of debt they have without growth. Obviously, they thought so as well. But they cannot grow any more than they already have, the market has retracted. They are in deep shit.

Seems like this Pierer fellow is the type that would burn it all down before losing control. PMG cannot exist with him in charge.

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fourfourone
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fourfourone 12/10/2024 8:19am
12/10/2024 8:19am
Spoonguy wrote:
I really cannot see this company mastering the kind of debt they have without growth. Obviously, they thought so as well. But they cannot grow any...

I really cannot see this company mastering the kind of debt they have without growth. Obviously, they thought so as well. But they cannot grow any more than they already have, the market has retracted. They are in deep shit.

MxAddic wrote:

Seems like this Pierer fellow is the type that would burn it all down before losing control. PMG cannot exist with him in charge.

You tell em. 

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MxAddic
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MxAddic 12/10/2024 8:33am
12/10/2024 8:33am
fourfourone wrote:

You tell em. 

I already did.

MxAddic is a stock market expert in this thread and an attorney in the LACR thread......🤣

 

MxAddic wrote:

And you are a ballsac in every thread...

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startbuttonarmpump 12/10/2024 11:21am
12/10/2024 11:21am

I'm still waiting for the fire sale. Come on PMG lets move some iron.

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MxAddic
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MxAddic 12/10/2024 11:28am
12/10/2024 11:28am Edited Date/Time 12/10/2024 11:31am
startbuttonarmpump wrote:

I'm still waiting for the fire sale. Come on PMG lets move some iron.

Another day goes by with no approval. Soon enough the bankers will be blowing them out. They have no sentimental attachment to them like Stefan.

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avidchimp
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avidchimp 12/10/2024 11:34am
12/10/2024 11:34am
startbuttonarmpump wrote:

I'm still waiting for the fire sale. Come on PMG lets move some iron.

The amount of inventory just on the floor at Thousand Oaks Powersports is jaw dropping.

2
Flatliner
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Flatliner 12/10/2024 11:51am
12/10/2024 11:51am

This whole situation is getting worse, I'd be out of there if I was a pro rider.

Spoonguy
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Spoonguy 12/10/2024 12:59pm
12/10/2024 12:59pm

I don't see the race teams continuing.

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GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 12/10/2024 1:46pm
12/10/2024 1:46pm Edited Date/Time 12/10/2024 1:46pm
Spoonguy wrote:

I don't see the race teams continuing.

"KTM" is going to be around in one form or another. Either Pierer will get a lifeline from the creditors, or there will be a negotiated takeover of ownership, or someone will buy the assets out of liquidation. In any situation I cannot see them dropping racing from their business model. Road racing maybe, but not off-road. Dirt bike racing really isn't that expensive.

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Spoonguy
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Spoonguy 12/10/2024 3:42pm
12/10/2024 3:42pm
Spoonguy wrote:

I don't see the race teams continuing.

GrapeApe wrote:
"KTM" is going to be around in one form or another. Either Pierer will get a lifeline from the creditors, or there will be a negotiated...

"KTM" is going to be around in one form or another. Either Pierer will get a lifeline from the creditors, or there will be a negotiated takeover of ownership, or someone will buy the assets out of liquidation. In any situation I cannot see them dropping racing from their business model. Road racing maybe, but not off-road. Dirt bike racing really isn't that expensive.

Perhaps I should've been more specific, I agree with you to a degree. After seeing how this is panning out, KTM will probably continue, though certainly not in it's current form. And although Red Bull (finance troubles too?) pays for a lot of MotoGP, it is not practical for a company like KTM to be involved in it, the same reasons as BMW, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Triumph, etc. do not compete there. As far as off road and MX teams, the decision to continue there may be out of KTM's hands eventually, you don't not pay back $3B without other people having a say in how you conduct business.

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Last2Stroke 12/10/2024 3:53pm
12/10/2024 3:53pm

The Austrian Armed Forces are looking to recruit laid off KTM employees!

image 830.png?VersionId=kIxGVuDgWKV4.N
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LungButter
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LungButter 12/10/2024 3:58pm
12/10/2024 3:58pm
Spoonguy wrote:
I was with the DCNR to promote dirt biking. I was involved in approving grants. I never saw a grant applied for by dirt bike riders...

I was with the DCNR to promote dirt biking. I was involved in approving grants. I never saw a grant applied for by dirt bike riders of any kind, plenty by equestrians, bicycles, sleds, and quads. I reached out to manufacturers, magazine editors, racing organizations, tracks, private riding areas, as many people as I could to supply me with info on economic impact, possitive family influence, anything to present to promote our sport to my state's powers that be. Only one person responded - Coombs - nobody else. But yeah, maybe I am wrong, dirt bikers do all they can to present themselves in a good light and represent the sport. Consider me enlightened.

Jeezus dude, I never said you were completely wrong, just giving you some info.  I actually agree with you.

I've went on plenty of rants here about how the industry should do more to help save riding areas and nobody gives a fuck.

 

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MONEY.
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MONEY. 12/10/2024 4:34pm
12/10/2024 4:34pm

KTM parting ways with MV Agusta! 

Last2Stroke 12/10/2024 4:48pm
12/10/2024 4:48pm
MONEY. wrote:

KTM parting ways with MV Agusta! 

Don't be surprised if CFMOTO buys them.

2
Spoonguy
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Spoonguy 12/10/2024 5:35pm
12/10/2024 5:35pm
Spoonguy wrote:
I was with the DCNR to promote dirt biking. I was involved in approving grants. I never saw a grant applied for by dirt bike riders...

I was with the DCNR to promote dirt biking. I was involved in approving grants. I never saw a grant applied for by dirt bike riders of any kind, plenty by equestrians, bicycles, sleds, and quads. I reached out to manufacturers, magazine editors, racing organizations, tracks, private riding areas, as many people as I could to supply me with info on economic impact, possitive family influence, anything to present to promote our sport to my state's powers that be. Only one person responded - Coombs - nobody else. But yeah, maybe I am wrong, dirt bikers do all they can to present themselves in a good light and represent the sport. Consider me enlightened.

LungButter wrote:
Jeezus dude, I never said you were completely wrong, just giving you some info.  I actually agree with you.I've went on plenty of rants here about...

Jeezus dude, I never said you were completely wrong, just giving you some info.  I actually agree with you.

I've went on plenty of rants here about how the industry should do more to help save riding areas and nobody gives a fuck.

 

Sorry pal, didn't mean to be a dick. Which my reply was. Just a sensitive subject to me, I and my wife wasted a lot of time trying expand and promote my state's dirt bike trail systems to no avail. Again, my apologies.

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