Something Has to Be Done Now Or The Sport is Finished

Flatliner
Posts
4069
Joined
11/3/2009
Location
CA
12/3/2024 2:44pm

If it's not a thing already, more agressive waivers to be signed by all.

If I'm jumping a double and there's a skiddy parked on the landing, that's on the track.  Any and all injuries aside from things like that are on the rider.

8
1
spimx
Posts
1296
Joined
3/25/2019
Location
Port Isabel, TX US
12/3/2024 3:04pm
OwenJakes wrote:

We should start an organization to help with promoting and growing riding facilities, race series, and support for the everyday guy that keeps this industry going. 

I wonder how the AMA is with the IRS. Someone start a group to fund an audit of the AMA and hopefully restructure to actually help small tracks. 

2
5
SPYGUY
Posts
2158
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
US
12/3/2024 3:48pm

Not sure why my previous post about this got deleted, but the next President of the United States has adult children as well as grandkids that ride dirt bikes. There are literally social media posts in the past year of Ivanka and Eric riding with their kids. Don Jr. was also previously featured in Dirt Rider magazine years ago. It's not often that we have dirt bike enthusiasts so close to the White House.

Not saying that this issue would be high on their priority list, but it's good to have allies in high places.

17
7
12/3/2024 3:52pm
OwenJakes wrote:
I asked an ignorant question in another thread about this so here’s another one. How is it that these tracks get hammered so hard but trail systems...

I asked an ignorant question in another thread about this so here’s another one. 

How is it that these tracks get hammered so hard but trail systems and national forests are fine? I’ve never seen traps and people going the wrong way on a moto track…

The federal government is largely immune from suits like this. 

4

The Shop

burn1986
Posts
12246
Joined
4/16/2010
Location
bossier city, LA US
12/3/2024 3:53pm
crt32 wrote:
Rumors are another lawsuit might be closing down (hopefully a short term pause vs closing) a historic Texas track. Apparently the accident happened in some trails...

Rumors are another lawsuit might be closing down (hopefully a short term pause vs closing) a historic Texas track. Apparently the accident happened in some trails around the track, kid hit a ditch and broke both femurs. He wasn't even supposed to be riding in that area. 

My kid is currently growing up on this track and made so many friends and memories. How can tracks survive if all it takes is for someone to break the rules, sue, win, and track has to close affecting all the families and riders. This keeps happening. 

ICE vs Electric doesn't matter, there is no saving tracks if personal responsibility does not come into play and tracks are protected. AMA HAS TO DO SOMETHING or WAIVERS HAVE TO MEAN SOMETHING or LAWS NEED TO BE ALTERED to protect tracks who open up to serve riders. 

The sport is in jeopardy—if tracks close, bike manufacturers lose sales, aftermarket companies can't sell parts, gear companies suffer, sponsors pull back from supercross, pros lose contracts, and the cycle continues.

What do we do? How do we solve this. I don't care about how comfy Deegan looks, how long the Stark battery last, or which helmet to buy, no offense to those who do. What I care about is having a sport for my kid to continue to enjoy, so how do we as consumers and an industry step up and get something done? 

Which Texas track?

1
mxxcdez
Posts
60
Joined
6/4/2024
Location
socal, CA US
12/3/2024 4:01pm Edited Date/Time 12/3/2024 4:01pm
crt32 wrote:
Rumors are another lawsuit might be closing down (hopefully a short term pause vs closing) a historic Texas track. Apparently the accident happened in some trails...

Rumors are another lawsuit might be closing down (hopefully a short term pause vs closing) a historic Texas track. Apparently the accident happened in some trails around the track, kid hit a ditch and broke both femurs. He wasn't even supposed to be riding in that area. 

My kid is currently growing up on this track and made so many friends and memories. How can tracks survive if all it takes is for someone to break the rules, sue, win, and track has to close affecting all the families and riders. This keeps happening. 

ICE vs Electric doesn't matter, there is no saving tracks if personal responsibility does not come into play and tracks are protected. AMA HAS TO DO SOMETHING or WAIVERS HAVE TO MEAN SOMETHING or LAWS NEED TO BE ALTERED to protect tracks who open up to serve riders. 

The sport is in jeopardy—if tracks close, bike manufacturers lose sales, aftermarket companies can't sell parts, gear companies suffer, sponsors pull back from supercross, pros lose contracts, and the cycle continues.

What do we do? How do we solve this. I don't care about how comfy Deegan looks, how long the Stark battery last, or which helmet to buy, no offense to those who do. What I care about is having a sport for my kid to continue to enjoy, so how do we as consumers and an industry step up and get something done? 

burn1986 wrote:

Which Texas track?

Village Creek in DFW. This is a quote from Brit who works as a finishline flagger there:

"Everyone's speculation is not even close on why vc is shutting down if you want to show terry support come ride practice Sunday show him how much yall care bout him vc and the cordray family needs everyone's support during this time vc is not gonna close hopefully this is just a temporary thing and vc will reopen early next year."
2
jemcee
Posts
12552
Joined
8/11/2008
Location
AU
12/3/2024 4:15pm
Beagle wrote:
I'm a fan of what Motorcycling Australia is doing down there:"Motorcycle clubs which affiliate with a State Controlling Body automatically receive wide-ranging insurance coverage under...

I'm a fan of what Motorcycling Australia is doing down there:

"Motorcycle clubs which affiliate with a State Controlling Body automatically receive wide-ranging insurance coverage under Motorcycling Australia’s National Insurance Program, including a no-excess public liability policy.

Take the financial risk out of running a motorcycle club with insurance built by the sport, for the sport."

https://www.ma.org.au/insurance-built-by-the-sport-for-the-sport/

Or our own FFM that keeps buying tracks to avoid private or public owners closing them or selling them for more profitable activities. Local leagues or affiliated clubs are then entrusted with administrating the sites, the federation  launches training programs and increases track activity, and FFM lawyers deal with any issues with locals. Guess who owns Ernée?

Yep I bitched when I had to pay a pretty high amount for my national licence but then I had my accident and I got a personal visit by a nice man from an insurance company telling me I'm eligible for a pretty good pay out, thanks to the fact I had a national licence and was at a recognised track.. I did also have a lawyer ask if I wanted to sue and I told him no! Buuut before I feel too good about myself, I live in Australia so I got a 9 month hospital visit with the best care I could hope for free, so I was never desperate for money!

8
2
12/3/2024 4:21pm

I never understood suing a facility due to an injury on their property, especially given we all know the risk associated with this sport. I do agree there are certain scenarios for everything so my statement is not a blanket across the board, but this Texas facility doesn't sound like one.. It is not just in dirtbikes though, in the city I grew up in there was a famous skateboarder who had his own park at the house and would allow most of the local kids to come by and ride at his place, until one kid broke his wrist and the family sued him for an unsafe environment and no parental supervision. Rather than taking responsibility, people seem to just pass blame elsewhere. 

5
12/3/2024 4:26pm
spimx wrote:
I wonder how the AMA is with the IRS. Someone start a group to fund an audit of the AMA and hopefully restructure to actually help...

I wonder how the AMA is with the IRS. Someone start a group to fund an audit of the AMA and hopefully restructure to actually help small tracks. 

The AMA is a non profit. Their 990 (tax return) is public knowledge and available to all of their members. 

4
1
Magic Man
Posts
227
Joined
12/9/2010
Location
Albuquerque, NM US
12/3/2024 4:52pm
OwenJakes wrote:
I asked an ignorant question in another thread about this so here’s another one. How is it that these tracks get hammered so hard but trail systems...

I asked an ignorant question in another thread about this so here’s another one. 

How is it that these tracks get hammered so hard but trail systems and national forests are fine? I’ve never seen traps and people going the wrong way on a moto track…

Because those owned by the american citizens. 

1
zookrider62!
Posts
6825
Joined
12/22/2008
Location
Plano, TX US
12/3/2024 5:09pm
crt32 wrote:
Rumors are another lawsuit might be closing down (hopefully a short term pause vs closing) a historic Texas track. Apparently the accident happened in some trails...

Rumors are another lawsuit might be closing down (hopefully a short term pause vs closing) a historic Texas track. Apparently the accident happened in some trails around the track, kid hit a ditch and broke both femurs. He wasn't even supposed to be riding in that area. 

My kid is currently growing up on this track and made so many friends and memories. How can tracks survive if all it takes is for someone to break the rules, sue, win, and track has to close affecting all the families and riders. This keeps happening. 

ICE vs Electric doesn't matter, there is no saving tracks if personal responsibility does not come into play and tracks are protected. AMA HAS TO DO SOMETHING or WAIVERS HAVE TO MEAN SOMETHING or LAWS NEED TO BE ALTERED to protect tracks who open up to serve riders. 

The sport is in jeopardy—if tracks close, bike manufacturers lose sales, aftermarket companies can't sell parts, gear companies suffer, sponsors pull back from supercross, pros lose contracts, and the cycle continues.

What do we do? How do we solve this. I don't care about how comfy Deegan looks, how long the Stark battery last, or which helmet to buy, no offense to those who do. What I care about is having a sport for my kid to continue to enjoy, so how do we as consumers and an industry step up and get something done? 

burn1986 wrote:

Which Texas track?

mxxcdez wrote:
Village Creek in DFW. This is a quote from Brit who works as a finishline flagger there:"Everyone's speculation is not even close on why vc is...

Village Creek in DFW. This is a quote from Brit who works as a finishline flagger there:

"Everyone's speculation is not even close on why vc is shutting down if you want to show terry support come ride practice Sunday show him how much yall care bout him vc and the cordray family needs everyone's support during this time vc is not gonna close hopefully this is just a temporary thing and vc will reopen early next year."

Elaborate please

1
Johnny Ringo
Posts
7915
Joined
1/11/2016
Location
Tombstone, AZ US
12/3/2024 5:10pm
OwenJakes wrote:
I asked an ignorant question in another thread about this so here’s another one. How is it that these tracks get hammered so hard but trail systems...

I asked an ignorant question in another thread about this so here’s another one. 

How is it that these tracks get hammered so hard but trail systems and national forests are fine? I’ve never seen traps and people going the wrong way on a moto track…

Magic Man wrote:

Because those owned by the american citizens. 

This is an interesting one I found in a google search

https://www.wisnerbaum.com/blog/2011/september/victims-sue-bureau-of-la…

12/3/2024 5:10pm

Just speculating... But when they say its just a temporary closure (they hope), it might be because they lost their insurance.   

1
PNWMXer
Posts
1714
Joined
1/13/2022
Location
Washington, WA US
12/3/2024 5:40pm
Mossy940 wrote:
A couple years back I got slid into at homeplate during a mens league softball game.Absolutely shattered my already fused left leg and ended up with...

A couple years back I got slid into at homeplate during a mens league softball game.

Absolutely shattered my already fused left leg and ended up with an 8 day hospital stay and a leg that, if broken again, will be amputated.

 

Within 10 days I had calls from multiple injury lawyers stating that they heard the guy that slid into me was not a part of the roster, therefore didnt sign a waiver, and the privately owned park is liable.....meaning a big pay day for me.

 

I did not follow back up. Accidents happen. I should NOT have been crowding home plate.

 

The injury lawyers were straight up astonished that I said I was not suing, because it was a "lay-up" of a case and people dont say no to money when they have hospital bills to pay.

 

The whole thing just straight up sucks

I know of an incident locally where a family’s young child ran into the road after a ball and was tragically hit by a passing vehicle. As I was told, the family had zero interest in suing. It was a tragic accident. Ultimately they had to unlist their number because of all the attorneys bombarding them with calls. Then they had three attorneys show up at the same time (uninvited) at their home and two got into a fistfight over who could go to the door and pitch their services first.


The majority of personal injury attorneys are scum of the earth, using others’ pain to get a fat paycheck under the guise of “helping.”

6
2
12/3/2024 5:44pm

Whenever I crashed and got F’d up at a track and had to make a trip to the hospital, I always told them I fell down at the house……it works pretty well unless you take an ambulance ride to the hospital. Can’t really lie about it then. I’ve paid all my own medical bills from the crashes I’ve had but I’m the type of person that would never ride without medical insurance. It’s a different world out there now. If you do a deep dive into it medical costs have skyrocketed, then your insurance goes up, then your insurance company doesn’t want to take take any risks due to profit margins…..unfortunately fun activities are the first to go. 

1
Magoofan
Posts
10401
Joined
5/4/2021
Location
Shadow Glen (for those who remember), CA US
12/3/2024 5:48pm

The future of the sport.... LMAO.

The future has already been prophesized..... we are already most of the way there.

 

4-2193896163

 

4
12
12/3/2024 5:58pm
SPYGUY wrote:
Not sure why my previous post about this got deleted, but the next President of the United States has adult children as well as grandkids that...

Not sure why my previous post about this got deleted, but the next President of the United States has adult children as well as grandkids that ride dirt bikes. There are literally social media posts in the past year of Ivanka and Eric riding with their kids. Don Jr. was also previously featured in Dirt Rider magazine years ago. It's not often that we have dirt bike enthusiasts so close to the White House.

Not saying that this issue would be high on their priority list, but it's good to have allies in high places.

He moved the BLM to Grand Junction, Colorado the first term.  But made a mistake and let employees choose to stay in DC, and so only 16 employees actually moved.  But that is a step in the right direction and I fully intend to make an effort to protect the local riding area from the foreign invasion of libtards that is and has happened here.  I have noticed that the MTB crowd does a hell of a lot better job organizing and getting things done than the dirt bike crowd, not sure why.

5
5
soggy
Posts
8445
Joined
12/3/2018
Location
UT US
12/3/2024 6:03pm

Damn. It’s almost like if congress spent our money responsibly and had national healthcare for everyone people wouldn’t need to sue to cover medical expenses. 

7
10
12/3/2024 6:05pm
Timo wrote:
He said he wouldn't judge people if they did. Everyone on here can talk big about not sueing a track, but when the medical bills start...

He said he wouldn't judge people if they did. Everyone on here can talk big about not sueing a track, but when the medical bills start piling up it's hard to follow up on it. My kid broke his arm at a private zoo this summer on a fun but sketchy 3 story tall slide. I'm lucky enough to have good insurance and the zoo was never notified that it happened. I would like to think I'd never be one to sue, but I've also never had several hundred thousand dollars in medical bills piling up. 

I shattered both my ankles and broke my pelvis september 2022 at Glen Helen. The medical bills were pretty gnarly. The 20-minute ambulance ride to loma linda was shocking in itself. Took 4 months to be able to walk again and ended up with a ton of metal in me and a fused ankle. Not once through that whole time period did I even think about suing glen helen. Ive gotten hurt at Elsinore, Perris and Cahuilla, again not once did I ever think I need to sue the track because my medical bills are high. I willingly went out on a track I knew I could get hurt on; therefore why would I sue? Your argument is dumb, high medical bills don't give you a pass to shut down a track. If you're going to race and ride dirt bikes get decent insurance and accept the fact your hobby is expensive and you will get hurt at some point. 

10
crt32
Posts
950
Joined
4/20/2015
Location
Oklahoma City, OK US
12/3/2024 6:06pm

Oklahoma Agritourism protects farms and places that have people visit their property, they come out and even place liability signs. Surely there is a way for motocross tracks or other adventure type facilities to fall under sole type of tourism protection. Feel like the time is now to implement change, or this will keep happening and no one will want to open up new places.

4
12/3/2024 6:23pm
Beagle wrote:
I'm a fan of what Motorcycling Australia is doing down there:"Motorcycle clubs which affiliate with a State Controlling Body automatically receive wide-ranging insurance coverage under...

I'm a fan of what Motorcycling Australia is doing down there:

"Motorcycle clubs which affiliate with a State Controlling Body automatically receive wide-ranging insurance coverage under Motorcycling Australia’s National Insurance Program, including a no-excess public liability policy.

Take the financial risk out of running a motorcycle club with insurance built by the sport, for the sport."

https://www.ma.org.au/insurance-built-by-the-sport-for-the-sport/

Or our own FFM that keeps buying tracks to avoid private or public owners closing them or selling them for more profitable activities. Local leagues or affiliated clubs are then entrusted with administrating the sites, the federation  launches training programs and increases track activity, and FFM lawyers deal with any issues with locals. Guess who owns Ernée?

Australia has its own issues , they have to self insure and just took a motorcycling Victoria (the 2nd largest stage by population )  right to issue  permits away ,   

Australia has the same issue with riders and spectators suing tracks 

1
1
Taotech
Posts
262
Joined
2/23/2017
Location
Fuquay Varina, NC US
12/3/2024 6:29pm

I will probably get lots of down votes, but I think the price to be able to ride a moto track for a day is way to cheap.    looking around at what other stuff costs to do,  I think a day at the track should be more like maybe, I don't know, maybe 60...70...140.    If the riders could come to terms with this then the tracks could stay open.  They could afford the increasing cost of insurance.   With the increasing cost of healthcare injuries and law suits are inevitable.  So most likely the price to participate will also go up.  For comparison a trackday on my superbike is avg 250 and often sells out with about 150 riders.   Sorry this is the cards we are dealt.   We have had it so good for so long.  The game is evolving.

14
8
Taotech
Posts
262
Joined
2/23/2017
Location
Fuquay Varina, NC US
12/3/2024 6:42pm

The people that put in all the hard work to run a track deserve to make a decent living doing it.  If it was profitable to do so, more people would do it and we would have more tracks.  The only way I see this happening is if they charge more at the gate.  I bet most of my local tracks that have shut down would still be open if they could charge like the road race courses do.   Sorry if this is too much common sense for some of you.

1
4
12/3/2024 6:43pm
Taotech wrote:
I will probably get lots of down votes, but I think the price to be able to ride a moto track for a day is way...

I will probably get lots of down votes, but I think the price to be able to ride a moto track for a day is way to cheap.    looking around at what other stuff costs to do,  I think a day at the track should be more like maybe, I don't know, maybe 60...70...140.    If the riders could come to terms with this then the tracks could stay open.  They could afford the increasing cost of insurance.   With the increasing cost of healthcare injuries and law suits are inevitable.  So most likely the price to participate will also go up.  For comparison a trackday on my superbike is avg 250 and often sells out with about 150 riders.   Sorry this is the cards we are dealt.   We have had it so good for so long.  The game is evolving.

$140 ? WTF

so I want to take my 2- kids riding on Saturday and Sunday and it’s only going to cost me $840 to get thru the gates. Not to mention all the other costs involved. Cmon man, that’s a dud

9
2
JazzyJJ
Posts
1763
Joined
12/1/2020
Location
Nunya, WY US
12/3/2024 6:44pm
Taotech wrote:
I will probably get lots of down votes, but I think the price to be able to ride a moto track for a day is way...

I will probably get lots of down votes, but I think the price to be able to ride a moto track for a day is way to cheap.    looking around at what other stuff costs to do,  I think a day at the track should be more like maybe, I don't know, maybe 60...70...140.    If the riders could come to terms with this then the tracks could stay open.  They could afford the increasing cost of insurance.   With the increasing cost of healthcare injuries and law suits are inevitable.  So most likely the price to participate will also go up.  For comparison a trackday on my superbike is avg 250 and often sells out with about 150 riders.   Sorry this is the cards we are dealt.   We have had it so good for so long.  The game is evolving.

I dont disagree. If they need to charge $50 or $60 per rider, it is what it is. People will spend that at the bar but bitch and moan about track fees.

14
1
12/3/2024 6:46pm
Beagle wrote:
I'm a fan of what Motorcycling Australia is doing down there:"Motorcycle clubs which affiliate with a State Controlling Body automatically receive wide-ranging insurance coverage under...

I'm a fan of what Motorcycling Australia is doing down there:

"Motorcycle clubs which affiliate with a State Controlling Body automatically receive wide-ranging insurance coverage under Motorcycling Australia’s National Insurance Program, including a no-excess public liability policy.

Take the financial risk out of running a motorcycle club with insurance built by the sport, for the sport."

https://www.ma.org.au/insurance-built-by-the-sport-for-the-sport/

Or our own FFM that keeps buying tracks to avoid private or public owners closing them or selling them for more profitable activities. Local leagues or affiliated clubs are then entrusted with administrating the sites, the federation  launches training programs and increases track activity, and FFM lawyers deal with any issues with locals. Guess who owns Ernée?

scott_nz wrote:
Australia has its own issues , they have to self insure and just took a motorcycling Victoria (the 2nd largest stage by population )  right to...

Australia has its own issues , they have to self insure and just took a motorcycling Victoria (the 2nd largest stage by population )  right to issue  permits away ,   

Australia has the same issue with riders and spectators suing tracks 

The issues between Motorcycling Australia and Motorcycling Victoria are over more than insurance, there are personalities and politics involved.

Now Motorcycling Australia is trying to change their Constitution, to remove Motorcycling Victoria's member rights.

1
1
Taotech
Posts
262
Joined
2/23/2017
Location
Fuquay Varina, NC US
12/3/2024 6:47pm
Taotech wrote:
I will probably get lots of down votes, but I think the price to be able to ride a moto track for a day is way...

I will probably get lots of down votes, but I think the price to be able to ride a moto track for a day is way to cheap.    looking around at what other stuff costs to do,  I think a day at the track should be more like maybe, I don't know, maybe 60...70...140.    If the riders could come to terms with this then the tracks could stay open.  They could afford the increasing cost of insurance.   With the increasing cost of healthcare injuries and law suits are inevitable.  So most likely the price to participate will also go up.  For comparison a trackday on my superbike is avg 250 and often sells out with about 150 riders.   Sorry this is the cards we are dealt.   We have had it so good for so long.  The game is evolving.

$140 ? WTFso I want to take my 2- kids riding on Saturday and Sunday and it’s only going to cost me $840 to get thru...

$140 ? WTF

so I want to take my 2- kids riding on Saturday and Sunday and it’s only going to cost me $840 to get thru the gates. Not to mention all the other costs involved. Cmon man, that’s a dud

I know.  We cant go that high right away.  How much would you be willing to pay?  

4
soggy
Posts
8445
Joined
12/3/2018
Location
UT US
12/3/2024 6:48pm Edited Date/Time 12/3/2024 6:51pm
Taotech wrote:
I will probably get lots of down votes, but I think the price to be able to ride a moto track for a day is way...

I will probably get lots of down votes, but I think the price to be able to ride a moto track for a day is way to cheap.    looking around at what other stuff costs to do,  I think a day at the track should be more like maybe, I don't know, maybe 60...70...140.    If the riders could come to terms with this then the tracks could stay open.  They could afford the increasing cost of insurance.   With the increasing cost of healthcare injuries and law suits are inevitable.  So most likely the price to participate will also go up.  For comparison a trackday on my superbike is avg 250 and often sells out with about 150 riders.   Sorry this is the cards we are dealt.   We have had it so good for so long.  The game is evolving.

$140 ? WTFso I want to take my 2- kids riding on Saturday and Sunday and it’s only going to cost me $840 to get thru...

$140 ? WTF

so I want to take my 2- kids riding on Saturday and Sunday and it’s only going to cost me $840 to get thru the gates. Not to mention all the other costs involved. Cmon man, that’s a dud

They could sell a seasons pass like a ski resort. Costs me 1500-2000 for a season pass. 200-300 for a day ticket.  

People live to butch and moan about the status quo at least these guys are providing some possible answers. 

4
1
Taotech
Posts
262
Joined
2/23/2017
Location
Fuquay Varina, NC US
12/3/2024 6:53pm

And, I know this is a family sport,  America has changed.  If you want to put a minor on a motorcycle to launch jumps and rail berms it is probably going to be expensive.  Or the powers that be won't let you do it.  Hopefully not.

5
TahoeVetMX
Posts
271
Joined
9/5/2021
Location
Las Vegas, NV US
12/3/2024 6:55pm

Motocross tracks are often run by good old country boys or farmer types.   Sometimes a track is run by an ex-rider.   Very few are businesspeople and often tracks are run very poorly.  Poor signage, poor communications, pit bikes screaming around the pits, riders going out on the track in the wrong classes, and so on.   My points are tracks must have a plan for safety and organization.   When people break the rules kick them out!  A good track owner should be able to walk their facility finding danger points and fixing them.   In Aviation the goal always to prevent stupidity before it happens.   Motocross track owners need to look in the mirror and understand they can be better also.   Sure, there will be the occasional lawsuit due to a crash, but you should have your ducks in a row to beat it quickly.   If the track did something stupid, then they will lose.   

9
1

Post a reply to: Something Has to Be Done Now Or The Sport is Finished

The Latest