KTM to file for Bankruptcy/ Self Restructuring on Friday

Johnny Ringo
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11/26/2024 11:59am

Is Rich Taylor behind this

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11/26/2024 11:59am Edited Date/Time 11/26/2024 12:42pm

If I owned a KTM, should I be worried about spare parts availability?

No. First the company is restructuring its debt (and equity) so it can continue operating in the future. This is actually good news (assuming the restructuring...

No. First the company is restructuring its debt (and equity) so it can continue operating in the future. This is actually good news (assuming the restructuring plan is approved)  its the first step in moving forward. Second, spares are revenue producing which they'll want. 

Plus, part of the reason they are in financial hardship is that owners are struggling to get parts right now. So... no difference.

1
TeamGreen
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11/26/2024 12:10pm

Is Rich Taylor behind this

🤣

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The Shop

sandman768
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11/26/2024 12:15pm

I bought up all the stock of chain sliders… I will be listing them soon…

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fourfourone
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11/26/2024 12:16pm

Is Rich Taylor behind this

Who's Rich Taylor?

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PTshox
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11/26/2024 12:18pm

So... anyone here from Europe? If so Curious what kinda deals are being had for KTM off road bikes there....

They (KTM) will look to prop up the US market pricing as long as possible and not discount too quick. But when that shoe drops... oh boy. 

What are folks seeing in the local stores as far as OTD prices go?

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1
soggy
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11/26/2024 12:26pm
PTshox wrote:
So... anyone here from Europe? If so Curious what kinda deals are being had for KTM off road bikes there....They (KTM) will look to prop up...

So... anyone here from Europe? If so Curious what kinda deals are being had for KTM off road bikes there....

They (KTM) will look to prop up the US market pricing as long as possible and not discount too quick. But when that shoe drops... oh boy. 

What are folks seeing in the local stores as far as OTD prices go?

I don’t think you’ll see much for discounts beyond what is out there right now. Ktm needs to keep there image of high quality/ high value. Discounting too much will hurt the brand in the long run. We will not see the effect of this in terms of production until next MY. And they will scale back production and keep costs of bikes on the higher end to keep with there image. 

Great opportunity for Ducati and triumph. Makes me wonder if they were reading the tea leaves on ktm’s financials. 

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Hammer 663s
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11/26/2024 12:26pm Edited Date/Time 11/26/2024 12:36pm
PTshox wrote:
So... anyone here from Europe? If so Curious what kinda deals are being had for KTM off road bikes there....They (KTM) will look to prop up...

So... anyone here from Europe? If so Curious what kinda deals are being had for KTM off road bikes there....

They (KTM) will look to prop up the US market pricing as long as possible and not discount too quick. But when that shoe drops... oh boy. 

What are folks seeing in the local stores as far as OTD prices go?

Discounts on everything Austrian. Just the first wave - there will be more. I bought my 2018 FC350 in late 2019, paid $6988 OTD on an MSRP $9499 bike. 30% off basically. Local 2024 250 Factory editions are $9200 OTD on a $11,xxx MSRP so only down 20% so far. Triumph making serious deals on their 24s too - in the $7500 range. 

Edit - local dealer warehouse.

warehouse
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KurtJ99
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11/26/2024 12:36pm Edited Date/Time 11/26/2024 12:37pm
yak651 wrote:

Roger is going to have to work another 20 years to retire when his stock options are at $0

You wouldn’t want to wish that misfortune on anyone, let alone someone who has made such huge contributions to American motocross and built the KTM America program. Yeah I know it’s a joke  

I hope that his retirement isnt lopsided in KTM stock. 

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burn1986
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11/26/2024 12:37pm

Sounds like Continental Airlines back in the mid 80s - filed bankruptcy several times, and then became the #1 Airline (2nd only to Southwest) in the late 80s. 

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Flatliner
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11/26/2024 12:42pm

You know all the riders have to be nervous about their deals, bonuses paid exc.

I don't think we see sexton on orange in 26'.

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Xeno
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11/26/2024 12:44pm
Discounts on everything Austrian. Just the first wave - there will be more. I bought my 2018 FC350 in late 2019, paid $6988 OTD on an...

Discounts on everything Austrian. Just the first wave - there will be more. I bought my 2018 FC350 in late 2019, paid $6988 OTD on an MSRP $9499 bike. 30% off basically. Local 2024 250 Factory editions are $9200 OTD on a $11,xxx MSRP so only down 20% so far. Triumph making serious deals on their 24s too - in the $7500 range. 

Edit - local dealer warehouse.

warehouse

Which dealership is this?

2
aees
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11/26/2024 12:46pm

Misleading headline. They are not going bankrupt. They are filling for reconstruction. Major difference. 

With the amount of debt on their books, and assets and ongoing cash flow you would have to be an idiot to not get the restructuring approved by court. Is stricter than in US, but still should not be hard for them. Unfortunately it does come with negative aspects from being in the process, but nothing that will have any wider pact. 

I'm guessing 20% on the dollar to lenders. Get some short term assistance with salaries but mainly taxes. Potentially a share issue if they don't want to do a fire sale. 

2
Hammer 663s
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11/26/2024 12:47pm
Discounts on everything Austrian. Just the first wave - there will be more. I bought my 2018 FC350 in late 2019, paid $6988 OTD on an...

Discounts on everything Austrian. Just the first wave - there will be more. I bought my 2018 FC350 in late 2019, paid $6988 OTD on an MSRP $9499 bike. 30% off basically. Local 2024 250 Factory editions are $9200 OTD on a $11,xxx MSRP so only down 20% so far. Triumph making serious deals on their 24s too - in the $7500 range. 

Edit - local dealer warehouse.

warehouse
Xeno wrote:

Which dealership is this?

Motosport Hillsboro. Photo is from their FB post today so I feel comfortable naming them here. They turn a TON of bikes in the PNW - maybe more than anyone else.

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MN_MX595
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11/26/2024 12:48pm
Flatliner wrote:

You know all the riders have to be nervous about their deals, bonuses paid exc.

I don't think we see sexton on orange in 26'.

This is a really good point. Wonder how the contract clauses work, they've got to be somewhat rock solid for the riders to get paid out their bonuses - even if Corp is struggling? Obviously long before, but Vialle/Hampshire winning SX titles then Sexton with the outdoors title is small potatoes in comparison to regular operating costs. 

This is certainly interesting, I don't see KTM group going away entirely but looking to see what unfolds. 

1
11/26/2024 1:00pm
Flatliner wrote:

You know all the riders have to be nervous about their deals, bonuses paid exc.

I don't think we see sexton on orange in 26'.

Maybe that's why Pulpmx said a time or 2...hinted really...that Sexton would be on a different brand in 26?

aees
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11/26/2024 1:25pm

It's night an day difference between bankruptcy and restructuring. 

It's when you hand over the company to a appointed administrator and shareholder lose all value right away (creditors may not). Your organization number and identity is forever lost. Share holders take the hit. 

Restecuring is very different. Management stil controls the company. Share hold value can still be intact, and recovered. Creditors take/some the hit.

(technical issue, couldn't post the reply to Dirty Points question "what exactly do you think bankruptcy is" because he deleted it) 

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PRM31
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Fantasy
11/26/2024 1:52pm Edited Date/Time 11/26/2024 1:55pm

Jorge Prado is probably a little extra pleased with his situation.  (Edit: I have no idea if racing on the part of KTM/Husky/GG/WP will be impacted, but this has to leave some question in the minds of the teams). 

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MxAddic
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11/26/2024 1:55pm
aees wrote:
It's night an day difference between bankruptcy and restructuring. It's when you hand over the company to a appointed administrator and shareholder lose all value right away...

It's night an day difference between bankruptcy and restructuring. 

It's when you hand over the company to a appointed administrator and shareholder lose all value right away (creditors may not). Your organization number and identity is forever lost. Share holders take the hit. 

Restecuring is very different. Management stil controls the company. Share hold value can still be intact, and recovered. Creditors take/some the hit.

(technical issue, couldn't post the reply to Dirty Points question "what exactly do you think bankruptcy is" because he deleted it) 

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soggy
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11/26/2024 2:07pm

😂😂

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11/26/2024 2:08pm

Pierer termed it a "Pit stop".

Guess that's what you need when the wheels fall off...

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MX558
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11/26/2024 2:11pm

So is it a good time to buy a 25 350 or wait ? 

 

10
Beagle
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11/26/2024 2:20pm Edited Date/Time 11/26/2024 2:24pm

Here is motomatters'take:

https://motomatters.com/news/2024/11/26/ktm_announce_restructuring_proc…

David Emmett is not a finance expert, but he's probably the best MotoGP writer there is and always researches thoroughly his topics.

There's also a link explaining the differences between the procedure in Austria and US and how much this is not bankruptcy.

5
PTshox
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11/26/2024 2:25pm
PTshox wrote:
So... anyone here from Europe? If so Curious what kinda deals are being had for KTM off road bikes there....They (KTM) will look to prop up...

So... anyone here from Europe? If so Curious what kinda deals are being had for KTM off road bikes there....

They (KTM) will look to prop up the US market pricing as long as possible and not discount too quick. But when that shoe drops... oh boy. 

What are folks seeing in the local stores as far as OTD prices go?

Discounts on everything Austrian. Just the first wave - there will be more. I bought my 2018 FC350 in late 2019, paid $6988 OTD on an...

Discounts on everything Austrian. Just the first wave - there will be more. I bought my 2018 FC350 in late 2019, paid $6988 OTD on an MSRP $9499 bike. 30% off basically. Local 2024 250 Factory editions are $9200 OTD on a $11,xxx MSRP so only down 20% so far. Triumph making serious deals on their 24s too - in the $7500 range. 

Edit - local dealer warehouse.

warehouse

I think there will be a LOT more discounts coming in January 2026. Why? Well they are shutting the factory for 2 months from what I ve read, to cut number of units in the market. They NEED to sell through of the units already made/in transit and on dealer floors. They need those gone so when they reopen mfg they can sell everything they produce. If when they open those factories they can't sell those bikes right away it is going to compound the problem. 

Now... they have a public perception problem too around their stability. Combine those elements and I can see a lot of deals happening in Jan/Feb to get as much inventory moved through the supply chain as possible. Clear it out so all newly produced orders are sold ASAP. So they have cash flow and can pay vendors etc. 

If I was a buyer of a KTM/GG/Husky bike - I d be waiting. And if a lot of buyers start waiting and X-mass isn't some banner sale event for them - they are going to be VERY interested in moving product in early 2026. They HAVE to move it. They need the cashflow. 

We shall see. Jan/Feb is not too far off. 

6
aees
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11/26/2024 2:35pm
aees wrote:
It's night an day difference between bankruptcy and restructuring. It's when you hand over the company to a appointed administrator and shareholder lose all value right away...

It's night an day difference between bankruptcy and restructuring. 

It's when you hand over the company to a appointed administrator and shareholder lose all value right away (creditors may not). Your organization number and identity is forever lost. Share holders take the hit. 

Restecuring is very different. Management stil controls the company. Share hold value can still be intact, and recovered. Creditors take/some the hit.

(technical issue, couldn't post the reply to Dirty Points question "what exactly do you think bankruptcy is" because he deleted it) 

MxAddic wrote:

They are not based in US. And they are not by definition bancrupt. Read my post again, big difference. 

4
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MxAddic
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11/26/2024 2:35pm
Beagle wrote:
Here is motomatters'take:https://motomatters.com/news/2024/11/26/ktm_announce_restructuring_proceedings.htmlDavid Emmett is not a finance expert, but he's probably the best MotoGP writer there is and always researches thoroughly his topics.There's also a...

Here is motomatters'take:

https://motomatters.com/news/2024/11/26/ktm_announce_restructuring_proc…

David Emmett is not a finance expert, but he's probably the best MotoGP writer there is and always researches thoroughly his topics.

There's also a link explaining the differences between the procedure in Austria and US and how much this is not bankruptcy.

I will just leave this here and let the smart guys figure it out.

"In this plan, they have to be able to demonstrate that they can repay at least 30% of their outstanding debts within 2 years. The remainder of the debt will then be written off.

In the results published for the first half of 2024

, the net debt stood at €1.488 billion, on an annual turnover in 2023 of €2.7 billion. Creditors have until January 31st, 2025 to register their debts. Creditors can either approve or reject PMG's restructuring plan. If creditors reject the plan, then the next step would be insolvency proceedings."

 

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11/26/2024 2:42pm
For those asking about stocks.  I thought about writing up some things. But this sums it up pretty well. "If a company declares Chapter 11 bankruptcy, it...

For those asking about stocks.  I thought about writing up some things. But this sums it up pretty well.

 

"If a company declares Chapter 11 bankruptcy, it is asking for a chance to reorganize and recover. If the company survives, your shares may, too, or the company may cancel existing shares, making yours worthless.

If the company declares Chapter 7, the company is dead, and so are your shares.

Owners of common stock often get nothing when a company enters liquidation since they are last in line for payment."

PMG/KTM is Austrian. None of that applies at all. There are entirely different rules there. I've seen no-one here post anything where they have expertise in...

PMG/KTM is Austrian. None of that applies at all. There are entirely different rules there. I've seen no-one here post anything where they have expertise in EU/Austrian bankruptcy law.

Where are they traded?  In Australia or US stock market?  Honestly never looked into it. 

Australia, don't you mean Austria?

The US education system at it's finest!

Austria-and-Australia -3207079433.jpg?VersionId=CX tTC6z0TNGTMSnufDHGDn7w
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11/26/2024 2:48pm
Pretty sure on the Swiss exchange. It's not a simple stock to buy for US investors. I considered a buy until I found out how tough...

Pretty sure on the Swiss exchange. It's not a simple stock to buy for US investors. I considered a buy until I found out how tough it is to buy/sell with any speed. I'll stick with catching falling knives on the NASDAQ or Dow. Wink  

Ok thanks for the clarification 👍I bought worldcom penny stocks thinking it might come out of it since it was so big.  Thought maybe govt intervention...

Ok thanks for the clarification 👍

I bought worldcom penny stocks thinking it might come out of it since it was so big.  Thought maybe govt intervention. Lost $ and vowed to never do that again. I was at the time licensed in 6 and 66, so I knew the risk.  But hoped for the once in a lifetime win. Companies this small, seems like even less of a chance, for those thinking about buying.

Yeah and given the fact that it's an Austrian/Chinese company, listed on the Swiss exchange, and declaring bankruptcy under EU law, the risk massively multiplies for...

Yeah and given the fact that it's an Austrian/Chinese company, listed on the Swiss exchange, and declaring bankruptcy under EU law, the risk massively multiplies for us. 

I did Supermicro 10 days ago at $17.50 and sold yesterday at $38. Made enough to rent gear for a week to rebuild my track. Rolled the dice, got lucky. YMMV. Smile

They are not a Chinese company, 38% is owned by Pierer (Austrian), 37% is owned by Bajaj (Indian), 25% is traded on the Swiss and Vienna Stock Exchanges...

image 772
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