Sorry for the long post and I'm probably gonna get some hate for this but I'm just sharing my experience incase it could possibly help someone else.
I'll start by saying I'm not a lover or a hater of electric, I like everything motocross related and just like trying new things. I've always been curious to try the stark and the recent sale has been enough for me to take the plunge.
I was very hesitant because I mainly ride deep sand, and the sand is where I feel the stark will suffer the most as far as battery life goes. Anyway I purchased a stark last wknd and took it to my personal sand track for its first try. My track is a very deep fast sand track.
Well one word to describe my first ride was disappointing. Although the bike was a blast to ride it had a battery warning light come up and was dropping the power after only 10 mins. Another 10 mins of riding slow and dicking around and the battery was empty. I thought maybe the first cycle on the battery is the not the best so I tried again the next day with very similar results.
I sent an email to stark with my concerns hoping they could log into my bike and see if it is faulty or something. They got back to me and said my bike is fine. So after doing some more research and finding a few others with similar issues it seems that the stark can just not handle deep sand and higher HP settings.
From all other reports if you are riding hardpack or lower hp settings the bike is probably fine. But to me this bike can not be considered as a serious motocross bike if it can't be ridden by a B grade Vet motocross rider in 60hp on a sand track, it is just a toy.
Bend over there's about to be a train coming to prove you're wrong. That you're just another squid who doesn't know bike setup or how to ride.
Choo choooo
My favorite type of review is the one where someone determines that something doesn’t work for their very specific needs and then says that thing won’t work for everyone
Please read it again, nowhere did I say it will not work for everyone, quiet the opposite actually. I am simply posting my experience in the hope it may possibly help someone else along the way.
Edit, If you bought any brand new motocross bike but they told you it can only be ridden for 10 mins then it will run hot and you have to park it, would you consider that a serious motocross bike?
Well Smith246. What can we say, you are amazingly fast and congrats! It could well be that the bike isn't good enough for the elite, so be proud of your skills.
For me it lasts 35-45min on a sand track depending on type of sand and moist level, but then again, I'm slower for sure than you.
The Shop
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
Free shipping: VITALMX
If you are genuinely open to having an adult conversation and not throwing sarcastic comments my way I would honestly like to hear about your experience with your stark.
I stated in my review that I am a B grade vet rider so very much your average joe. This is why I am a little shocked and disappointed in my experience. I was genuinely hoping there was something faulty with my bike but stark are telling me this isn't the case.
I don’t think anyone with significant experience on E-bikes would have ever advised you to buy one for riding in deep and fast sand, that’s not a set of conditions where electric excels. That’s also not the type of conditions most riders encounter on a consistent basis, so claiming it’s a toy is a little bit out in left field, especially when there’s plenty of info out there that would have shown this purchase wasn’t a good idea for your specific needs.
Sounds like you got yourself a lovely, if a bit pricey, piece of furniture to hop on to watch your favorite AMA riders rip it on TV while doing zap zap noise.
As you had more or less anticipated, that's not the right tool for your trade, deep sand (along with Supermoto) is the worst case scenario for electric bikes.
There are tons of range videos about riding Vargs on sand but of course your mileage may vary depending on type of riding, terrain and rider skills.
Did you try to test ride one or asked some actual owners before buying it? Did you go for a second sand ride to see more precisely how much time you got before power drop (and how much battery is left at this point)? Did you update the bike (crawl mode and reverse, improved range and thermal management)?
I did alot of research before my purchase and was under no illusion that deep sand wasnt going to be the best place for it. But alot of comments were as 8500rpm said above that they were getting 35-45 mins out of the battery and no comments of overheating. I was more than happy with this.
But to only get 20 mins total and power reduction after only 10 mins is definitely on the disappointing side. I am happy to say that the 10 mins of riding I get are absolutely awesome and this bike has blown me away in the actual riding side of things.
I stick by my word saying it is a toy. Stark advertise this bike as a serious motocross bike that can compete with modern 450cc motocross bikes. If you bought any new 450 motocross bike and you had to stop riding after 10 mins, regardles of terrain you would not be calling that a serious motocross bike. Yes I know I am in the minority but the main point of my post was to possibly help someone in the same situation as me.
Even medium soft tracks you should be lucky if you get 20min if you have decent speed.
Those freaking gasoline generators all over the pits is a nightmare. 4-5h constant full rev. Really need V2G.
Keep on at Stark if this doesn't get better for you.
And, find / make contact with others in Sand Groper Land and see how they are going with theirs.
There can always be anomalies with single bikes / batches of bikes.
I've now got 7 ( or is it 8? - definately more to come If Leisky and Co pass on the discounts that I'm reading about on here) mates with them, and, have had plenty of riding on them. One of our practice tracks is Deep, Deep, near Bottomless River Sand, and None of the bikes have been having problems like yours with it. That the bikes have so much Torque, seems to be advantageous over ICE in those conditions - at least from what I / We have experienced. Yes, the charge does go down quicker (though nothing like your dreadful 10 minutes), but so do our ICE bikes - my 500 becomes a gas guzzler there, and my old small capacity 4t Hybrids do, too.
Sucks to be one with problems, but, hopefully it might be rectified.
Could you confirm if you're on the latest firmware and software version?
I think Varg should be (at least ) on V 1.0.159 and Varg App on V 1.0.183 (407).
Yeah just checked and it has the latest updates on the bike and in the app.
From your previous post I would have loved to test rode one first but I live very remote and there is no one with Starks where I live. I have also done a few rides now with the same result. If I keep power to a max of 50hp i can get it down close to 30% before it drops power. But at 60hp which I prefer it will derate well before 50%
Thanks for your feedback. I'm still hoping there is something wrong with my bike but it's not looking like it unfortunately. How tight or wide open are the tracks you ride?
Thanks so this confirms that it's thermal management issue, not battery capacity limiting you.
Here is another batch of questions for you:
How long can you ride on 50 hp before power drop around 30% battery?
Did you try varying regen settings (less regen might mitigate heating a bit) ?
Honestly it's quite rare to hear about thermal limitations, must really be deep sand fast track? Did you ride it on another track to compare and discard any issue with the bike itself?
edit: just looked up where you live, when you say isolated you're not kidding, Western Australia with 3 dealers in a 5 h drive radius, I understand the sand track.
A variety of terrain.
The group of blokes I ride with have Serious money, and own extensive properties, every one of them .
I, being (somewhat) 'normal', am in a rather different financial level to them.......
The Sand area has a variety of courses - One Long (around 3.3ks) , wide Open, whooped out, ultra fast - well, it is when ridden by ultra fast riders. One other track, around 1.8 ks - fast again. Then some tight twisty courses, with deep, , deep tight corners, that Really load a bike.
Up from the river, it gets into typical Blue Mountains Rock / Sandstone.
Heaven on Earth / Your Worst Nightmare, depending on your preferences, basically.
The sand, is quite the bike Killer, of any type.
I really hope things get better for you.
The Vargs are a magnificent bike. I'm lucky to have access to them, without having to fork out for them. But, no riding for me for a while I'd say, with various Ops / repairs to get through.
I eagerly await the E Bikes to come. By the time I get back to riding as often as I used to, there should be a bit of a selection of Major brand bikes available. I'm squirreling away money for just that eventuality.
I do think the Honda will be out much quicker than some here believe. Yamaha, close behind, but they may just gazump Honda, like they did with Serious 4 stroke MXers.
I appologize for that Smith246! I don't want to be rude... I was.
I was a bit triggered since 10min sounded just very aggressive, so far off everyones experiences I guess. Maybe the sand you ride is just super deep. My sand tracks are not exactly Lommel but proper sand tracks. It's not beach sand where you get sucked down into when the waves wash in, but still proper sand tracks.
Of course, the difference is huge compared to harder dirt tracks, I would say with my experience I get about double the battery life on a hard dirt track. Speed is about same, both fairly fast. What's kills the battery for me is launching out of corners on a sand track.
Lastly, I think it's the perfect slow Vet bike... you can pretend to be fast... you are not... and the battery lasts well enough. I also charge the Varg from my car, V2L.
Shit, and here I thought all dirt bikes were toys
Someone being able to remotely log into my bike is all I needed to hear
Pit Row
Yeah the overall battery run time I guess I can live with given my terrain, obviously I would like more. Its being able to only go for 10 mins before power drop that is the main issue.
On 50hp i got around 15 mins, broken into 2x 7 or 8 min rides. The power drop was alot less noticeable when I was running on 50hp as it was when I was on 60hp
That was actually going to be a question I had about whether the regen could effect it? I was running quiet high regen from 70-90%, that will definitely be something I test next.
I haven't had a chance to try a different track yet as the hardpack tracks I ride are all part of clubs and can only be ridden on organised events. And unfortunately our season has finished for the year.
Yeah I kinda live in the middle of nowhere, was a 11hr round trip to get my bike. And yes the sand is very deep, Western Australia is well known for having some extremely deep soft sand.
I appreciate you trying to help, thankyou.
No worries, apology accepted.
I can live with the total run time I'm getting of around 20mins given my terrain. It's the fact it drops power if I use anything over 50hp that has me most disappointed. And I think the disappointment is worse because of how good the bike is to ride. There is no way I can criticise that part. I have no problem in saying it is possibly the best bike I've ever ridden.
When battery and electric technology comes a bit further these things will be unbeatable.
What is the outside temp when riding in sand?
Have you rode it anywhere else besides sand?
Less regen will definitely help your cause. Zero it out and crank out another moto. This is all part of understanding this technology and how to have it perform its best in whatever conditions you have.
I live in the land of perfect dirt, here in TX. At 50% regen and 55hp, I will smash 30min moto's all day. When outside temps were high 80's, usually around the 3rd moto I would see the heat light pop on. Outside temps are finally coming down now and the heat light is no longer coming on.
My home track is Sandy Oaks in Keithsburg, IL. Doesn’t get deeper or more difficult sand to ride just ask Bob Hannah who raced the National there haha.
But anyway, sorry to hear your experience was not great. My Stark at Sandy Oaks with me will last about 45 minutes on 55hp and 50% regen braking and I’m a +30A guy. Then when I need a half hour break I can charge it quickly and ride again. I will say though if you are constantly spinning and not placing your weight should be on the bike to be efficient it will exhaust the battery faster.
Any opinion other than these where ready for prime time was solidly trounced by the Etards. A year later nope, zip, nada… 😆
Temp has been very mild at the moment so around mid 20°C, definitely not hot.
Haven't had the chance to ride at a different track yet. I suspect riding on anything firmer will be no problem at all.
Thanks for the feedback I will definitely try the less regen for sure. I am still not sold less regen will somehow gain me 50% more battery life. I hope it can help with the heating issue but.
When you say perfect dirt what do you mean? I can see this lasting 30 mins in dirt like softish loam. I think people's idea of what sand is must vary alot.
I'm not doubting where you ride is very sandy but there is absolutely no way I could get anywhere even close to 45mins. Stories like yours is why I was hoping my stark is faulty but it doesn't seem that way.
The only person I know who owns a stark also bought one around the same time as me, he rode on a very sandy but slightly slower track than mine and could only just manage 30 minutes.
Sucks that you spent the money and that is what you’re left with
Ok 246, now that you got Vital involved, we need your complete ride report with various regen settings (0, 20, 40, 50 or 60).
You said that's your personal track, the bike is quiet, so here you go, what time is it in Perth, do you have some lights on the track? 🙃
Spending that kind of money only to be disappointed like this is a big bummer.
Post a reply to: Stark Varg is just a Toy