How to "value" an smx championship

9/18/2024 11:46am
Motofinne wrote:
Like already mentioned, it's a payday for the riders and some "offseason-like" enterntainment for the fans. The industry household names are towing the company line and...

Like already mentioned, it's a payday for the riders and some "offseason-like" enterntainment for the fans. The industry household names are towing the company line and hyping it to be something prestigious but it really isn't.

Nobody is going to add Jetts last years "title" to the equation when they bench race about his place in the history of all riders.

Exactly, who were the MX Grand National Champions from the mid 80,s??

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GrapeApe
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9/18/2024 12:11pm
Motofinne wrote:
Like already mentioned, it's a payday for the riders and some "offseason-like" enterntainment for the fans. The industry household names are towing the company line and...

Like already mentioned, it's a payday for the riders and some "offseason-like" enterntainment for the fans. The industry household names are towing the company line and hyping it to be something prestigious but it really isn't.

Nobody is going to add Jetts last years "title" to the equation when they bench race about his place in the history of all riders.

Exactly, who were the MX Grand National Champions from the mid 80,s??

David Bailey and David Bailey

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dhagman
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9/18/2024 12:21pm
AH387 wrote:
I acknowledged the positives earlier in the thread. I was specifically talking about your comparing the SMX set up to other sports playoffs and how it...

I acknowledged the positives earlier in the thread. I was specifically talking about your comparing the SMX set up to other sports playoffs and how it really isn't the same at all. It's not an opinion. NHL, NFL, MLB etc are all playing and working towards a trophy at the end of the year as the Champion for the year. In SMX by the time it even starts, the most important titles have already been handed out. Hence the point of this thread as to how to value SMX and it's Championships. That is also why earlier in the thread I said it would be nice if eventually they could find a way to make the SMX title more important, like it would have the most weight in the sport as a true Overall Champion. Then it would be more like traditional sports' playoffs. 

How do you quantify what the "most important titles" are other than OPINION - just because many people agree with you doesn't make it not an opinion.

They are literally merging two elements of a joined series - SX and MX - into track designs and the riders are seeded (awarded points to start the SMX series off) based on their performance over those two series. Do we expect the riders to race 40/52 weekends in a year? How about venues that have been running races for decades being told to kick rocks? I doubt you will find many people arguing the system is perfect, but you have to start somewhere and how will a series ever gain notoriety if it never begins?

Personally, I enjoy paying to attend the races in person and streaming them via some live stream. At the end of the day, the cream rises to the top and I like watching the riders twist their wrists.

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AH387
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9/18/2024 1:36pm Edited Date/Time 9/19/2024 4:01am
dhagman wrote:
How do you quantify what the "most important titles" are other than OPINION - just because many people agree with you doesn't make it not an...

How do you quantify what the "most important titles" are other than OPINION - just because many people agree with you doesn't make it not an opinion.

They are literally merging two elements of a joined series - SX and MX - into track designs and the riders are seeded (awarded points to start the SMX series off) based on their performance over those two series. Do we expect the riders to race 40/52 weekends in a year? How about venues that have been running races for decades being told to kick rocks? I doubt you will find many people arguing the system is perfect, but you have to start somewhere and how will a series ever gain notoriety if it never begins?

Personally, I enjoy paying to attend the races in person and streaming them via some live stream. At the end of the day, the cream rises to the top and I like watching the riders twist their wrists.

I would just look at where the most effort is put forth by the industry, riders and media. SX is clearly the driving force of the sport, as far as reaching the most people and having the teams and riders putting their focus. We are probably arguing semantics here but I would say that is a fact. You have riders already doing the bare minimum all summer, just to qualify for SMX - because the prize money is the biggest incentive, rather than results. So I just don't think you are gonna find any industry people that right now that think SMX results mean more than a Series title, especially SX. 

Again, I think SMX is great. I would consider it a success in many areas. And I don't expect the system to be perfect right away. But I think most would agree that some changes will need made. And I think most can agree that in it's current form, it is very much a novelty. So that is where it remains to be seen if it can either survive as-is, continue to evolve and mean something more as it goes along. Or maybe it just goes away, but I hope it stays and there is a middle ground where the riders don't feel burnt out, both Series matter and SMX results mean even more than it does right now. 

The Shop

Herr Lich
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9/18/2024 2:15pm
Tumic wrote:

I don’t care how much Weege and RC try to push this ”world championship”, it’s just a well payed circus.

It's unbearable listening to Weege and JT tying themselves in knots shilling for the SMX 'world championship'. 

2
9/18/2024 3:48pm

The only value it has is the money being paid to the riders. The double points and triple points take away from counting it as anything more. 

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9bro9
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9/18/2024 5:32pm

Feld's version of WSX 

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9/18/2024 5:52pm
Motofinne wrote:
Like already mentioned, it's a payday for the riders and some "offseason-like" enterntainment for the fans. The industry household names are towing the company line and...

Like already mentioned, it's a payday for the riders and some "offseason-like" enterntainment for the fans. The industry household names are towing the company line and hyping it to be something prestigious but it really isn't.

Nobody is going to add Jetts last years "title" to the equation when they bench race about his place in the history of all riders.

Exactly, who were the MX Grand National Champions from the mid 80,s??

GrapeApe wrote:

David Bailey and David Bailey

Lol, that was NOT the example he should have used to make his point. 

9/18/2024 6:04pm

I think SMX is just a gimmick that was created to fend off the emerging challenge from World Supercross. The claim that, "new TV money provided the funding," is just corporate PR. They could have been paying the riders like this already. 

SMX is entertaining as hell and it's great for us fans, but if WSX dies then SMX probably goes away, too. 

Low on the prestige scale for me. 

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yak651
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9/18/2024 6:04pm
sam hain wrote:
I watched about 5mins of Charlotte and turned it off and haven't even looked at Texas results. It's Monster cup 2.0, good for the riders to...

I watched about 5mins of Charlotte and turned it off and haven't even looked at Texas results. It's Monster cup 2.0, good for the riders to get a pay day but that's about it IMO. Come on A1!

Dang you missed a great 450 race last weekend. 

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FastEddy
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9/18/2024 6:11pm
motokiwi wrote:

It's like winning the McGrath invitational?

US Open or Monster Cup on steroids. 

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motomike137
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9/19/2024 7:48am
Tumic wrote:

I don’t care how much Weege and RC try to push this ”world championship”, it’s just a well payed circus.

That's all any of it is in reality. I hope after a couple more years they fold the whole thing together as one package. The time has come.

Paul333
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9/19/2024 8:38am Edited Date/Time 9/19/2024 8:39am

I think SMX has huge entertainment value. It gets us all to watch, and it got plenty of riders unmotivated to work hard/race outdoors up off the couch. They needed the points to make it into SMX. Puts way more money in riders bank accounts, which is huge for the sport. 

It also got our two series SX & Nationals to work together verses being competitors. That’s 100% going to help the sport in the long run. 

Historically it means nada. It’s a 3 race series. Winning the SMX “Title” doesn’t mean crap to me compared to a 450 SX tile or 250/450 outdoor national title. 



 

1
9/19/2024 11:46am
Motofinne wrote:
Like already mentioned, it's a payday for the riders and some "offseason-like" enterntainment for the fans. The industry household names are towing the company line and...

Like already mentioned, it's a payday for the riders and some "offseason-like" enterntainment for the fans. The industry household names are towing the company line and hyping it to be something prestigious but it really isn't.

Nobody is going to add Jetts last years "title" to the equation when they bench race about his place in the history of all riders.

Exactly, who were the MX Grand National Champions from the mid 80,s??

GrapeApe wrote:

David Bailey and David Bailey

Yes, what I really wanted to point out is they really have no weight on Championship status / count.

BTW, I wish they bought this back.

1
9/19/2024 7:03pm

Like a glorifyied Monster cup, a bit of a gimmick, certainly double points is, Dallas was certainly a bit of stale,  despite a whole season of series hype but it's still 3 more races until the MXdN which imo is the biggest race of the year and the creates the modt interest, excitement, and intrigue 

2
9/19/2024 7:47pm
Zoom wrote:
A Regional SX only has half the field of a National. With SMX having the complete field of riders I would definitely put it above a...

A Regional SX only has half the field of a National. With SMX having the complete field of riders I would definitely put it above a Regional SX and just under SX and MX. 

Well Jett didn't even race 450 SX last year and was the 450 SMX champion. If the funky points system let's it be possible that a rider can not even ride a 450 for the whole year and still be the champion then it's not just under SX and MX. It's way below them

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mx617
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9/19/2024 8:10pm

One thing that's come to mind reading this, since it's already a wonky points system. Why not have seeding points for SX and MX separately. So you win both sx and mx championships you get 50 seed points. That would change the approach to each of the other series, give them a bit more importance coming into smx. 

1
9/19/2024 9:24pm

a well earned payday for some of the lesser lights....thats all.   enjoy watching the racing but most riders would prefer a SX or MX championship over multiple SMX titles (i would think!)

9/19/2024 9:37pm
Motofinne wrote:
Like already mentioned, it's a payday for the riders and some "offseason-like" enterntainment for the fans. The industry household names are towing the company line and...

Like already mentioned, it's a payday for the riders and some "offseason-like" enterntainment for the fans. The industry household names are towing the company line and hyping it to be something prestigious but it really isn't.

Nobody is going to add Jetts last years "title" to the equation when they bench race about his place in the history of all riders.

Exactly, who were the MX Grand National Champions from the mid 80,s??

David Bailey carried the blue plate in 1984 and 1985...

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AH387
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9/20/2024 3:55am
Well Jett didn't even race 450 SX last year and was the 450 SMX champion. If the funky points system let's it be possible that a...

Well Jett didn't even race 450 SX last year and was the 450 SMX champion. If the funky points system let's it be possible that a rider can not even ride a 450 for the whole year and still be the champion then it's not just under SX and MX. It's way below them

Exactly. That is, to me, the biggest thing that "cheapens" the SMX Titles, themselves. I realize it's very hard to make a points system to counter-act someone winning pretty much every National. But at the same time, he did not even race 450 SX. And like I mentioned earlier, a lot of teams/riders know they can race SX and then just hit a couple select Nationals and get in. So there is not any big urgency. They just do what they need to get in, not necessarily get the highest seeding. They just want in so they can get the payday. And again, that's great but it would be nice if the Titles meant more and not just the big money incentive. But I'm not sure if there is a system that makes sense to do that. So maybe SMX will just continue to be a nice end of the year opportunity for the riders to make some extra $.

kxking
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9/20/2024 3:56am
Zoom wrote:
A Regional SX only has half the field of a National. With SMX having the complete field of riders I would definitely put it above a...

A Regional SX only has half the field of a National. With SMX having the complete field of riders I would definitely put it above a Regional SX and just under SX and MX. 

Well Jett didn't even race 450 SX last year and was the 450 SMX champion. If the funky points system let's it be possible that a...

Well Jett didn't even race 450 SX last year and was the 450 SMX champion. If the funky points system let's it be possible that a rider can not even ride a 450 for the whole year and still be the champion then it's not just under SX and MX. It's way below them

Take away the seed points, the single, double, and triple points, and Jett still wins the Crown?

9/20/2024 4:59am Edited Date/Time 9/20/2024 5:59am

It's worth a Million dollaaaaz to the 450 class winner. That's a effing great payday for three days work.

The SMX world Championship's number 1 plate doesn't come anywhere close to the USA SX and Outdoors number 1 plates.

The SMX number 1 plate won't carry much weight until they find a way for the top GP riders to qualify and get in on the action.

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Mavetism
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9/20/2024 5:20am Edited Date/Time 9/20/2024 5:31am
Zoom wrote:
A Regional SX only has half the field of a National. With SMX having the complete field of riders I would definitely put it above a...

A Regional SX only has half the field of a National. With SMX having the complete field of riders I would definitely put it above a Regional SX and just under SX and MX. 

Well Jett didn't even race 450 SX last year and was the 450 SMX champion. If the funky points system let's it be possible that a...

Well Jett didn't even race 450 SX last year and was the 450 SMX champion. If the funky points system let's it be possible that a rider can not even ride a 450 for the whole year and still be the champion then it's not just under SX and MX. It's way below them

kxking wrote:

Take away the seed points, the single, double, and triple points, and Jett still wins the Crown?

Since Sexton finished 3-DNF at the last event, yes, he would. Also he didn't start the playoffs as the top seed, he was third I think behind Chase and AP.

Let's say we remove all the seeding and double/triple points, results would be:

#1 Jett      68 
#2 Ken      66 
#3 Chase  57
#4 Webb   49
#5 AP        49

At least the top 5 wouldn't look different in terms of positions.

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Zoom
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9/20/2024 5:40am

The best points system would be to keep the seeded points coming into SMX from SX and MX, BUT change the SMX races to single points per moto instead. That way it still gives an incentive to race both series (SX/MX) and now there are 6 Main Events in SMX. 

ando
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9/20/2024 6:31am

It’s valued at $1M.

1983YZ125
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9/20/2024 8:40am

How much does it cost a privateer to compete in a single race (consumable, hotels, gas, bike maintenance, team expenses, etc.)?

Looking at the payouts for this year for each race, I could see this not being overly lucrative in either class if you aren't a strong performer. The 250 payouts as a whole are pretty minimal if you aren't in the Top 5.

 

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