Ducati's Deep Pockets

What are the chances Ducati throws down big money to sign a premier class champion its first year?

MFG's Net Worth:
Ducati: $38.48B
Suzuki: $20.9B (This must include the automotive portion)
Honda: $20.4B (heavy equipment included)
Kawasaki: $18.8B (heavy equipment included)
Yamaha: $8.44B (I feel like this is low, but its all google provides)
KTM Group: $1.6B (Also seems way too low)
Triumph: $1B
Beta: $??

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EAmato88
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9/13/2024 9:16am Edited Date/Time 9/13/2024 9:24am

i fully expect Ducati to go all in for their US debut. They have VW/Audi money backing them, thats why their figure is so large. Im not sure about yamaha but that seems low, possibly just their powersports division? The KTM number is correct, KTM has lost $2B is their last fiscal year, they are in bad shape.

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Skerby
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9/13/2024 9:20am

I feel like the figures you posted are BS. Honda is a household name worldwide, they build their own aircraft for christs sake.

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early
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9/13/2024 9:21am Edited Date/Time 9/13/2024 9:57am

Matthes said that when Ducati approached US mx teams they were expecting the teams to bring most of the money to the table. 

I'm not sure about wsbk but in motogp they generally lease their bikes to the satellite teams for a yearly rate, they don't inject money into those teams. If they are expecting their mxgp team to be the factory/development team they may not be fielding a full US factory team effort but something more similar to a satellite team deal, at least in the near term. 

Personally, I hope to see a top rider on a duc asap.

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Philly215
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9/13/2024 9:22am

Numbers seem off and they won’t go all in. They talked about it on PulmpMX and I think Steve said they aren’t just going to throw crazy money at the program. 

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BobPA
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9/13/2024 9:30am Edited Date/Time 9/13/2024 9:36am
EAmato88 wrote:
i fully expect Ducati to go all in for their US debut. They have VW/Audi money backing them, thats why their figure is so large. Im...

i fully expect Ducati to go all in for their US debut. They have VW/Audi money backing them, thats why their figure is so large. Im not sure about yamaha but that seems low, possibly just their powersports division? The KTM number is correct, KTM has lost $2B is their last fiscal year, they are in bad shape.

Market cap is not equal to cash on hand.....

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9/13/2024 9:36am
Skerby wrote:

I feel like the figures you posted are BS. Honda is a household name worldwide, they build their own aircraft for christs sake.

I was just trying to find figures for each company's "motor or motorcycle" division. Which will technically included side by sides, four wheelers, generators. That's all google could give me. I know Yamaha is worth a lot more than $8B. Honda as a whole is worth $195B.

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JazzyJJ
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9/13/2024 10:04am
early wrote:
Matthes said that when Ducati approached US mx teams they were expecting the teams to bring most of the money to the table. I'm not sure about...

Matthes said that when Ducati approached US mx teams they were expecting the teams to bring most of the money to the table. 

I'm not sure about wsbk but in motogp they generally lease their bikes to the satellite teams for a yearly rate, they don't inject money into those teams. If they are expecting their mxgp team to be the factory/development team they may not be fielding a full US factory team effort but something more similar to a satellite team deal, at least in the near term. 

Personally, I hope to see a top rider on a duc asap.

Motogp they have a factory team and satellite squads that lease their bikes, usually the prior year tech

early
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9/13/2024 10:34am
JazzyJJ wrote:

Motogp they have a factory team and satellite squads that lease their bikes, usually the prior year tech

Yes, but it sounded like the European based mxgp team is going to be the factory/development team and the US team status is somewhat TBD since they were shopping around existing teams and JGR.

9/13/2024 11:10am

Downvotes on a simple question? 

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GrapeApe
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9/13/2024 11:13am
Rosso391 wrote:

Downvotes on a simple question? 

I didn't downvote but I think you're off on Ducati's net worth by $37B or so

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9/13/2024 11:18am
Rosso391 wrote:

Downvotes on a simple question? 

GrapeApe wrote:

I didn't downvote but I think you're off on Ducati's net worth by $37B or so

Like I stated. This is the information google had when I searched it. Maybe I should've used sales revenue numbers for a better reference?

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9/13/2024 1:43pm Edited Date/Time 9/13/2024 1:44pm

People think KTM (Pierre Mobility Group) is flushed with cash but in reality they are like a zit on a horse's ass financially compared to an OEM like even Suzuki. 

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Alex814
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9/13/2024 2:34pm

It wouldn't make any sense to throw huge money at the program right now. I don't think the market is primed for a $15k dirtbike like maybe it was three years ago. They'd be smart to come in on a budget and develop the bike for a couple years, release a 250, etc. 

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aees
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9/13/2024 3:10pm
EAmato88 wrote:
i fully expect Ducati to go all in for their US debut. They have VW/Audi money backing them, thats why their figure is so large. Im...

i fully expect Ducati to go all in for their US debut. They have VW/Audi money backing them, thats why their figure is so large. Im not sure about yamaha but that seems low, possibly just their powersports division? The KTM number is correct, KTM has lost $2B is their last fiscal year, they are in bad shape.

Having VW group behind you is not a good thing right now. They are under huge financial stress and are looking over pretty much everything to cut costs and spendings. Now a million here and there, sure, but Ducati is on their own in this. 

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9/13/2024 3:26pm Edited Date/Time 9/13/2024 3:59pm
EAmato88 wrote:
i fully expect Ducati to go all in for their US debut. They have VW/Audi money backing them, thats why their figure is so large. Im...

i fully expect Ducati to go all in for their US debut. They have VW/Audi money backing them, thats why their figure is so large. Im not sure about yamaha but that seems low, possibly just their powersports division? The KTM number is correct, KTM has lost $2B is their last fiscal year, they are in bad shape.

Ducati is dominating road racing currently, but with the exception of the short period of time that Casey Stoner was on the bike, they weren’t competitive in Grand Prix racing for decades.  I have a hard time believing that they’re going to step into Supercross and make an immediate impact.  It sure as hell hasn’t worked out too well for Triumph in year one.

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DaveNoones
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9/13/2024 3:51pm
EAmato88 wrote:
i fully expect Ducati to go all in for their US debut. They have VW/Audi money backing them, thats why their figure is so large. Im...

i fully expect Ducati to go all in for their US debut. They have VW/Audi money backing them, thats why their figure is so large. Im not sure about yamaha but that seems low, possibly just their powersports division? The KTM number is correct, KTM has lost $2B is their last fiscal year, they are in bad shape.

aees wrote:
Having VW group behind you is not a good thing right now. They are under huge financial stress and are looking over pretty much everything to...

Having VW group behind you is not a good thing right now. They are under huge financial stress and are looking over pretty much everything to cut costs and spendings. Now a million here and there, sure, but Ducati is on their own in this. 

Yeah, they’re getting ready to shut down a German factory for God sakes. They’re in serious financial trouble just like KTM.

Nairb#70
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9/13/2024 4:54pm
Rosso391 wrote:
What are the chances Ducati throws down big money to sign a premier class champion its first year?MFG's Net Worth:Ducati: $38.48BSuzuki: $20.9B (This must include the...

What are the chances Ducati throws down big money to sign a premier class champion its first year?

MFG's Net Worth:
Ducati: $38.48B
Suzuki: $20.9B (This must include the automotive portion)
Honda: $20.4B (heavy equipment included)
Kawasaki: $18.8B (heavy equipment included)
Yamaha: $8.44B (I feel like this is low, but its all google provides)
KTM Group: $1.6B (Also seems way too low)
Triumph: $1B
Beta: $??

I was not aware Honda made any type of heavy equipment.

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9/13/2024 5:04pm
Skerby wrote:

I feel like the figures you posted are BS. Honda is a household name worldwide, they build their own aircraft for christs sake.

Ducati is owned by VW group

APLMAN99
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Fantasy
9/13/2024 8:30pm
Rosso391 wrote:
What are the chances Ducati throws down big money to sign a premier class champion its first year?MFG's Net Worth:Ducati: $38.48BSuzuki: $20.9B (This must include the...

What are the chances Ducati throws down big money to sign a premier class champion its first year?

MFG's Net Worth:
Ducati: $38.48B
Suzuki: $20.9B (This must include the automotive portion)
Honda: $20.4B (heavy equipment included)
Kawasaki: $18.8B (heavy equipment included)
Yamaha: $8.44B (I feel like this is low, but its all google provides)
KTM Group: $1.6B (Also seems way too low)
Triumph: $1B
Beta: $??

Ducati is nowhere near that figure. Their record profit has been a little bit over $100M, their market cap is about $250M. Volkswagen is their majority owner, but that doesn’t equate to Ducati being worth anything close to the parent company. 

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alex69
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9/14/2024 1:06am Edited Date/Time 9/14/2024 1:14am
Skerby wrote:

I feel like the figures you posted are BS. Honda is a household name worldwide, they build their own aircraft for christs sake.

Ducati is owned by VW group

And the VW group has very disappointing results this year, so money will have to come from somewhere.
They even want to close factories in Germany and cut thousands of jobs.

But Ducati is not directly owned by VW, but by Lambogini Audi acquired 100% of the voting rights of Ducati, and Audi also has deep pockets because they will start an F1 team in 2026.
 

Question
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9/14/2024 1:23am
EAmato88 wrote:
i fully expect Ducati to go all in for their US debut. They have VW/Audi money backing them, thats why their figure is so large. Im...

i fully expect Ducati to go all in for their US debut. They have VW/Audi money backing them, thats why their figure is so large. Im not sure about yamaha but that seems low, possibly just their powersports division? The KTM number is correct, KTM has lost $2B is their last fiscal year, they are in bad shape.

Fact checking, KTM lost about 120 millions only, about their profit last year, and will regroup. 

Ducati's revenues is about 1.2 billion and is actually smaller than KTM.

64smoker
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9/14/2024 2:03am

Ducati pockets are bottomless because of being part of the VAG group , but there not silly they will have that bike bang on before they spend big on a top rider , and by that I mean a title threat rider not a cairoli , Roczen development type rider, you’ve only got to look what they’ve done in other sports , they will go big when they need to 👍

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Beagle
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9/14/2024 2:45am Edited Date/Time 9/14/2024 2:48am
Rosso391 wrote:
What are the chances Ducati throws down big money to sign a premier class champion its first year?MFG's Net Worth:Ducati: $38.48BSuzuki: $20.9B (This must include the...

What are the chances Ducati throws down big money to sign a premier class champion its first year?

MFG's Net Worth:
Ducati: $38.48B
Suzuki: $20.9B (This must include the automotive portion)
Honda: $20.4B (heavy equipment included)
Kawasaki: $18.8B (heavy equipment included)
Yamaha: $8.44B (I feel like this is low, but its all google provides)
KTM Group: $1.6B (Also seems way too low)
Triumph: $1B
Beta: $??

APLMAN99 wrote:
Ducati is nowhere near that figure. Their record profit has been a little bit over $100M, their market cap is about $250M. Volkswagen is their majority...

Ducati is nowhere near that figure. Their record profit has been a little bit over $100M, their market cap is about $250M. Volkswagen is their majority owner, but that doesn’t equate to Ducati being worth anything close to the parent company. 

Yes, it's more realistic to compare revenue, profit and annual sales.

Here are Ducati and Honda motorcycle figures for 2022

Ducati

revenue: 1 billion euros

operating profit: 109 million euros

sales: 61 562 

https://www.ducati.com/us/en/news/ducati-overcomes-1-billion-euros-revenue-for-the-first-time-in-its-history

Honda motorcycles

revenue: over 11 billion euros

operating profit: 1.4 billion euros

sales: 17 027 000

https://global.honda/sustainability/cq_img/report/pdf/2022/Honda-SR-202…

TLDR Ducati revenue and profit are 10 times smaller than Honda's. And it's just Honda motorcycle division, not Honda global.

The reality is that Ducati is a midget compared to Honda, and yet they're beating everyone in MotoGP. If they ever become competitive in MX it will definitely NOT be because of their deep pockets.

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