Is the 350 REALLY 350cc?

adamdf
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adamdf 5/27/2010 10:00pm
5/27/2010 10:00pm
bullpen58 wrote:
How do we know? Has anyone "protested" his bike? Can one of his rivals from the mini days please protest his bike and pay the fee...
How do we know? Has anyone "protested" his bike? Can one of his rivals from the mini days please protest his bike and pay the fee to have it torn down? Just for old time's sake?

I mean seriously though, what would stop KTM from making their "350" into a 450? The rules allow it. It could be a big marketing scheme cover-up. If so, this is bigger news that watergate!

Either way, whether it's a 350 or a 450, it got the job done! Nice work Katoom.
Lightning78 wrote:
Stupid thread/post..............KTM's 350 is within spec....according to the production rule that as a fan you should know any bike raced has to use the production engine...
Stupid thread/post..............KTM's 350 is within spec....according to the production rule that as a fan you should know any bike raced has to use the production engine cases, frame swingarm and plastics .....why can none of you accept that MA800 kicked everyone's ass on a 350?....You don't think for a minute that the "Big 4" teams didn't demand the bike be inspected for legality? Im sure the bike was torn down and inspected as soon as the race was over mostly motivated but the big 4 because they got their asses handed to them on a bike 100cc less than what they have to offer?

Did you even look at the laptimes between the 250f's and the 450f's after Hangtown was concluded? If you did before making such a conspiracy theory based post you'd see that the 250f's and the 450f's were running about the SAME laptimes from top to bottom.....why is this so hard to accept he beat everyone on a 350??????
@Lightning 78....."why is this so hard to accept he beat everyone on a 350??????"

Beats me too man..it really is not rocket science, a 350 can win, i mean Cairoli is going it in Europe too, and i said above before this that everyone seems to forget RV kicking everyone's ass at the MXDN in 07
Lightning78
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Lightning78 5/27/2010 10:02pm
5/27/2010 10:02pm
bullpen58 wrote:
"they wouldn't go through the time and effort to produce a bike and market it and have it all be a lie" How do you know...
"they wouldn't go through the time and effort to produce a bike and market it and have it all be a lie"

How do you know? Maybe there's something in it for them to lie?

Like, hmmmmm, let's say what if a company (KTM) made this big deal out of how they're gonna make a 350 to race the 450s but then since development of the bike was done at the last minute, they realized that the 350 wasn't competitive? Would they want to get their asses handed to them all season and then look like morons and not sell any 350s? Or would they want to bolt a 450cc (or whatever size) cylinder on there and keep telling everyone it's a 350 so that dipshits like us would rush out to buy one?

Who cares though eh? Let's just bury our heads in the sand and not ask any questions. Wouldn't want to upset the apple cart. Silly
Us dipshits?.......Are you kidding me??????????? The only one qualified to ask questions is the AMA and MX sports and im sure it was inspected since it WON the second moto of it's first outing and almost won the overall.

You don't believe they ran a 350 then don't buy one.
Lightning78
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Lightning78 5/27/2010 10:09pm
5/27/2010 10:09pm
loftyair wrote:
KTM has been the 'motor' company for a while now. If a kx250f can holeshot the best in the world, (villo), then why wouldn't 100cc more...
KTM has been the 'motor' company for a while now. If a kx250f can holeshot the best in the world, (villo), then why wouldn't 100cc more on a arguably better motor company (ktm) be able to do it? A better question might be, " is it really only a 250f?"
If you can build a 2 mot bike in the 250f class loke PC does why cannot KTM do the same thin witht eh 350....even Chad Reed admitted they detune the 450 to ride them effectively so if KTM took a 350cc engine and built it to the hilt why would it not be able to make enough HP to run with the 450's?

Again the top to bottom 250f's ran almost identical laptimes as the 450's at hangtown.

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Harbison Racing 5/27/2010 10:47pm
5/27/2010 10:47pm
bullpen58 wrote:
How do we know? Has anyone "protested" his bike? Can one of his rivals from the mini days please protest his bike and pay the fee...
How do we know? Has anyone "protested" his bike? Can one of his rivals from the mini days please protest his bike and pay the fee to have it torn down? Just for old time's sake?

I mean seriously though, what would stop KTM from making their "350" into a 450? The rules allow it. It could be a big marketing scheme cover-up. If so, this is bigger news that watergate!

Either way, whether it's a 350 or a 450, it got the job done! Nice work Katoom.
yes they are - and yes the 350 sounds different than the 450s
Aaryn234
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Aaryn234 5/27/2010 11:05pm
5/27/2010 11:05pm
If mikey's 350F is a 410 should we then assume that every 450F in the class is really a 525?

Maybe we should get someone from each team to protest one other teams bikes and have them all checked!
manering
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manering 5/27/2010 11:42pm
5/27/2010 11:42pm
350's shouldn't be allowed to race 450's.
the 350 has a clear inertia advantage over the 450's, horsepower and torque aren't really the issue, they both make plenty.

just as we see 250 times are often faster than 450's especially on rough tracks. again the lower inertia of the 250 is an advantage being easier to change direction on.

hopefully we wont see this unfair advantage next year. the rules should state 445cc - 450cc's only.

im all for 350s but they should be racing other 350s, none of this class mixing bs like that which killed off the 125s
Tiki
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Tiki 5/28/2010 12:12am
5/28/2010 12:12am
1983 Honda XR


1970


And the only real 350 1984 Yamaha RZ350
Tiki
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Tiki 5/28/2010 12:17am
5/28/2010 12:17am
manering wrote:
350's shouldn't be allowed to race 450's. the 350 has a clear inertia advantage over the 450's, horsepower and torque aren't really the issue, they both...
350's shouldn't be allowed to race 450's.
the 350 has a clear inertia advantage over the 450's, horsepower and torque aren't really the issue, they both make plenty.

just as we see 250 times are often faster than 450's especially on rough tracks. again the lower inertia of the 250 is an advantage being easier to change direction on.

hopefully we wont see this unfair advantage next year. the rules should state 445cc - 450cc's only.

im all for 350s but they should be racing other 350s, none of this class mixing bs like that which killed off the 125s
bullpen58
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bullpen58 5/28/2010 12:23am
5/28/2010 12:23am
bullpen58 wrote:
How do we know? Has anyone "protested" his bike? Can one of his rivals from the mini days please protest his bike and pay the fee...
How do we know? Has anyone "protested" his bike? Can one of his rivals from the mini days please protest his bike and pay the fee to have it torn down? Just for old time's sake?

I mean seriously though, what would stop KTM from making their "350" into a 450? The rules allow it. It could be a big marketing scheme cover-up. If so, this is bigger news that watergate!

Either way, whether it's a 350 or a 450, it got the job done! Nice work Katoom.
Lightning78 wrote:
Stupid thread/post..............KTM's 350 is within spec....according to the production rule that as a fan you should know any bike raced has to use the production engine...
Stupid thread/post..............KTM's 350 is within spec....according to the production rule that as a fan you should know any bike raced has to use the production engine cases, frame swingarm and plastics .....why can none of you accept that MA800 kicked everyone's ass on a 350?....You don't think for a minute that the "Big 4" teams didn't demand the bike be inspected for legality? Im sure the bike was torn down and inspected as soon as the race was over mostly motivated but the big 4 because they got their asses handed to them on a bike 100cc less than what they have to offer?

Did you even look at the laptimes between the 250f's and the 450f's after Hangtown was concluded? If you did before making such a conspiracy theory based post you'd see that the 250f's and the 450f's were running about the SAME laptimes from top to bottom.....why is this so hard to accept he beat everyone on a 350??????
Good points (in this and all your other posts). But, like you said, the engine CASES etc. have to be stock. The AMA rules don't say the cylinder has to be. Wink

Also, I never said I didn't believe a 350 could do it. Why is that nobody can ask any questions without having words put into their mouth? I'm just asking the questions that need to be asked. haha.

It probably IS a 350cc bike. I'm just curious if we KNOW that it is for sure. It appears like we do.

Also, this isn't a conspiracy theory, it's more of a conspiracy hypothesis. LMAO!

Not sure if it was you or someone that pointed it out (in a sarcastic tone that I liked), but I think we'll probably see a rule change IF the 350 really is better / faster / easier to ride. The big 4 usually DO make rule changes whenever anyone else threatens their superiority (e.g., KTM). They did it back when the cc limit was 550 and John Dowd was pulling EVERY holeshot on earth on that big KTM 520 or 525 or whatever that thing was. hahahahhaha. Now THAT is a conspiracy THEORY (i.e., scientifically proven fact).
bullpen58
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bullpen58 5/28/2010 12:24am
5/28/2010 12:24am
I vaguely remember reading somewhere that when Yamaha initially developed the YZ 400, that they were strongly considering 350cc as the ideal engine size. Anyone remember if that was the case? I know it was SMALLER than the 400cc they ended up going with.
DanDunes818 5/28/2010 12:30am
5/28/2010 12:30am
I sure hope MX sports doesn't cave in and not let the 350 race legally after this year because the big 4 don't like it. That would be BS. If you don't like it build one don't cry. Unless i missed something I think you can ride a 250 fourstoke in SX in the 450 class if you want to so I'm sure the 350 won't be outlawed in SX. Although we all know all MX/SX rules are written in chalk so they can easily be erased and reworded to fit whoever doesn't like the rule. Bottom line is this year the 350 is allowed and I think it's going to kick some ass.
PaleBlue
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PaleBlue 5/28/2010 12:48am
5/28/2010 12:48am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 11:10pm
I'm glad to see that almost all you americans are not following the sterotypes that we outsiders (incorrectly) have of you - paranoia (conspiracy theories) and greed (more is always better).

This is not the first time KTM have gone with undersized engines. In the nineties the 500 2 stroke class bikes were 380cc and finally 360. KTM have never been afraid to be different.

And Manering, your, smaller and less powerfull = cheating........ words fail me.
sbarrington314 5/28/2010 1:16am
5/28/2010 1:16am
the 250s are putting out horses of a stock 450. to think the 350 doesnt have the same horse power as the 450s is silly.
jemcee
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jemcee 5/28/2010 2:32am
5/28/2010 2:32am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 11:10pm
yeah i think the 350 sounds smoother, more like a 250f

the 450 has a throatier more of a snarlier sound (that is the official terminology by the way)


thats what i reckon anyway and if you don't, it's obvious i have much better knowledge of this sport, the bikes and the riders than you... so there
ns503
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ns503 5/28/2010 3:55am
5/28/2010 3:55am
Somewhere, Bruhn is having a good chuckle...
ando
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ando 5/28/2010 4:23am
5/28/2010 4:23am
manering wrote:
350's shouldn't be allowed to race 450's. the 350 has a clear inertia advantage over the 450's, horsepower and torque aren't really the issue, they both...
350's shouldn't be allowed to race 450's.
the 350 has a clear inertia advantage over the 450's, horsepower and torque aren't really the issue, they both make plenty.

just as we see 250 times are often faster than 450's especially on rough tracks. again the lower inertia of the 250 is an advantage being easier to change direction on.

hopefully we wont see this unfair advantage next year. the rules should state 445cc - 450cc's only.

im all for 350s but they should be racing other 350s, none of this class mixing bs like that which killed off the 125s
I read this as a subtle stab at the 2 stroke advocates who are claiming the displacement advantage killed the two stroke.

If not, then you have NFI.

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hellion
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hellion 5/28/2010 5:09am
5/28/2010 5:09am
Can't even believe I'm wasting time reading this stupid thread. Two points; Not only do you need to use the stock cases, but you also need to have stock bore and stroke. And second, do you really think a manufacturer who's future is riding on this would cheat?

-eagle-
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-eagle- 5/28/2010 6:03am
5/28/2010 6:03am
ns503 wrote:
Somewhere, Bruhn is having a good chuckle...
That crossed my mind too.

Seeing that only one oem makes this bike and its allowed in no questions asked should also provoke all the coiled, 2 stroke, copperheads around here too.

Cracks me up that a ktm250 sx is 10lbs under the legal weight limit; wish they would let sleeter run than 300sx bolt on kit.
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Ernosto 5/28/2010 6:06am
5/28/2010 6:06am
MX Sports Medicine wrote:
You can easily hear the difference, even on TV.
Agree.
bullpen58
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bullpen58 5/28/2010 6:38am
5/28/2010 6:38am
jemcee wrote:
yeah i think the 350 sounds smoother, more like a 250f the 450 has a throatier more of a snarlier sound (that is the official terminology...
yeah i think the 350 sounds smoother, more like a 250f

the 450 has a throatier more of a snarlier sound (that is the official terminology by the way)


thats what i reckon anyway and if you don't, it's obvious i have much better knowledge of this sport, the bikes and the riders than you... so there
LOL. Nice to see SOME people have a sense of humor.

I like the official word (snarlier).
bullpen58
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bullpen58 5/28/2010 6:39am
5/28/2010 6:39am
sbarrington314 wrote:
the 250s are putting out horses of a stock 450. to think the 350 doesnt have the same horse power as the 450s is silly.
Did someone say that? Cause I didn't. Is this national jump to conclusions day?
inflammable
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inflammable 5/28/2010 7:10am
5/28/2010 7:10am
So, if someone starts a thread about J-Law racing in Europe on a 350SXF, what happens?

Mass Anarchy?
Thermonuclear War?
The forum collapses into a singularity from the mass of posts?
GuyB
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GuyB 5/28/2010 8:14am
5/28/2010 8:14am
inflammable wrote:
So, if someone starts a thread about J-Law racing in Europe on a 350SXF, what happens? Mass Anarchy? Thermonuclear War? The forum collapses into a singularity...
So, if someone starts a thread about J-Law racing in Europe on a 350SXF, what happens?

Mass Anarchy?
Thermonuclear War?
The forum collapses into a singularity from the mass of posts?
No, you've got the equation wrong. It'd have to be a 350 two-stroke, piloted by J-Law, who was being coached by Tony Alessi.
Tater
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Tater 5/28/2010 8:50am
5/28/2010 8:50am
ns503 wrote:
Somewhere, Bruhn is having a good chuckle...
-eagle- wrote:
That crossed my mind too. Seeing that only one oem makes this bike and its allowed in no questions asked should also provoke all the coiled...
That crossed my mind too.

Seeing that only one oem makes this bike and its allowed in no questions asked should also provoke all the coiled, 2 stroke, copperheads around here too.

Cracks me up that a ktm250 sx is 10lbs under the legal weight limit; wish they would let sleeter run than 300sx bolt on kit.
The two stroke limit is 212 so if the 210 figure is right, it's only 2 ponds under. Nothing a nice stainless glide plate wouldn't fix.
Faceaz
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Faceaz 5/28/2010 9:38am
5/28/2010 9:38am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 11:10pm
Dude - Don't you guys get it. We've been telling everyone there's no way a 350 could be competitive against a 450. So, know instead of admitting we're idiots, we must save face by claiming KTM is trying to pull one over on everyone. It's a huge conspiracy, so huge they won't even let Mike keep a bike overnight. Not sure what we'll think of next when they tear it down - maybe that they only inspected the bore & not the stroke? That's a good one let's run with it. At least that way, while most people will see us for the idiots we are, in our minds we can still be right all along. LMAO.......
Trip
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Trip 5/28/2010 10:49am
5/28/2010 10:49am
The 350 pulls fine on the hills at Glen Helen.... If it can climb there, it can climb anywhere..
IceMan446
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IceMan446 5/28/2010 2:12pm
5/28/2010 2:12pm
I don't really get the whole point of the 350....if it has the same HP and weighs close to the 450 what is the whole point? You can change the power on the 450s now and that's something they have already been doing. So what exactly is the advantage of the 350? The new yamaha 450 is heavier but said to be easier to ride due to the location of the mass...is that the case with the KTM 450 and 350?
indy_maico
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indy_maico 5/28/2010 3:05pm
5/28/2010 3:05pm
From ktm's website

Displacement 349.7 cc
Bore x stroke 88 x 57.5 mm

'nuff said

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