Comparing Jett's Rookie Championship Season to Dungey and McGrath

SPYGUY
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5/14/2024 2:07pm
wrc777 wrote:
The MC/Jett rookie comparison will always be clouded by MC racing those first 6 races the year prior. That is a lot of experience to gain...

The MC/Jett rookie comparison will always be clouded by MC racing those first 6 races the year prior. That is a lot of experience to gain. Jett won two of his first 6 races but wasn't great in the other 4. It will be interesting to see if he can win at least 10 of his first 22 races which is what MC did. If he can win 2 of his first 5 races next year that will be similar to MC.

You'd have to say that Jett gained valuable experience by racing 450 MX and SMX in 2023, however.

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mark_swart
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5/14/2024 2:10pm

Here’s another point to compare - expectations. A lot of experts as well as fans picked Jett to win before he ever lined up at A1. Now of course that 450 outdoor championship and SMX contributed to it, but as someone who was there for both MC and Dungey’s breakthrough years, I really don’t remember a lot of people calling them for the championship as rookies (even though they both moonlighted in the premier class before moving up. Rookies who I think were really expected to come in and win were Bradshaw and Stewart, and neither did. I don’t think I would even say I expected RC to win at first in SX. So for Jett to come in as a championship favorite and actually pull it off is pretty impressive.

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joan'anas
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5/14/2024 2:25pm
I would be interested to know how many race wins/ championships dungey and mc were up against compared to Jett. Jett had 4 past champions with...

I would be interested to know how many race wins/ championships dungey and mc were up against compared to Jett. Jett had 4 past champions with 6 total sx championships I think? Probably over 100 race wins between tomac, webb, kenny, chase, anderson and whoever else has won. 
 

Those stats to see what kind of competition they were up against comparatively would be telling. 

JoeyNovice wrote:
That's a great idea. I dove back in and pulled the race winners each rider lined up against in their rookie years. Jett's table shows each...

That's a great idea. I dove back in and pulled the race winners each rider lined up against in their rookie years. Jett's table shows each riders' career wins as of the end of the 2024 season, Dungey's the end of the 2010 season, and McGrath's the end of the 1993 season.

I expected to see Josh Hill also in the McGrath win list Grinning 

What a ride for this dude.

 

Funny to see the avegare age for 2024.

The field is wayyy older. 

I remember 2010, Reed was 27yo and I thought he was old.

Supercross seems to be easier on the body, thanks to the tame down track, rider can have longer career. 

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Johnny Ringo
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5/14/2024 2:47pm
ando wrote:
Age comparison

Age comparison

Lmao Jett racing 30+ class as a 20 year old. No wonder!

Athletic ability, or at least the athletic ability needed for racing MX, is not in decline at 30. The median age for setting an athletic world...

Athletic ability, or at least the athletic ability needed for racing MX, is not in decline at 30. The median age for setting an athletic world record is 28

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The Shop

Splat03
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Lmao Jett racing 30+ class as a 20 year old. No wonder!

Athletic ability, or at least the athletic ability needed for racing MX, is not in decline at 30. The median age for setting an athletic world...

Athletic ability, or at least the athletic ability needed for racing MX, is not in decline at 30. The median age for setting an athletic world record is 28

Body physiology starts to change in the late twenties. The fast twitch muscle fibers start to lose their dominance to the slow twitch fibers. The sports requiring significant endurance usually have athletes peaking in their late 20s- early 30s. Obviously genetics, training and body composition play huge roles in it as well. 

Flatliner
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5/14/2024 4:53pm

Blows my mind every time I'm reminded that bradshaw is younger than MC.  That's career burnout in a nutshell.

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ando
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Athletic ability, or at least the athletic ability needed for racing MX, is not in decline at 30. The median age for setting an athletic world...

Athletic ability, or at least the athletic ability needed for racing MX, is not in decline at 30. The median age for setting an athletic world record is 28

971_Fan wrote:
I'm wondering if the studies you are using pulled any data from motocross racing.  RC, RV, Dungey, and a host of other top riders either retired...

I'm wondering if the studies you are using pulled any data from motocross racing. 

RC, RV, Dungey, and a host of other top riders either retired before 30, or were past their best years. 

Supercross and motocross, with high rates of injuries is different than other sports. 

Rugby players would suffer as many injuries as MX riders; they typically peak around 30 and play well into their 30’s.

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ando
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Pop Shmoke wrote:
The stats here dont show the depth of the field and how many mud races there were this season which in my opinion makes jett look...

The stats here dont show the depth of the field and how many mud races there were this season which in my opinion makes jett look worse than he was.

KHNC wrote:

If the tracks were as hard as they used to be, it wouldnt matter if there was mud or not. Jett has it easy. 

If the tracks were as hard as they used to be the gap between Jett and the others would be greater.  

 

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Johnny Ringo
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5/14/2024 6:02pm
Pop Shmoke wrote:
The stats here dont show the depth of the field and how many mud races there were this season which in my opinion makes jett look...

The stats here dont show the depth of the field and how many mud races there were this season which in my opinion makes jett look worse than he was.

KHNC wrote:

If the tracks were as hard as they used to be, it wouldnt matter if there was mud or not. Jett has it easy. 

ando wrote:

If the tracks were as hard as they used to be the gap between Jett and the others would be greater.  

 

True, because the field consists of vet riders

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ando
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KHNC wrote:

If the tracks were as hard as they used to be, it wouldnt matter if there was mud or not. Jett has it easy. 

ando wrote:

If the tracks were as hard as they used to be the gap between Jett and the others would be greater.  

 

True, because the field consists of vet riders

It's probably more accurate to say that Jett, Eli, Chase, Kenny and maybe Webb would stand out even further from the rest if the technical difficulty of the tracks increases. 

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Johnny Ringo
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5/14/2024 6:19pm
ando wrote:

If the tracks were as hard as they used to be the gap between Jett and the others would be greater.  

 

True, because the field consists of vet riders

ando wrote:
It's probably more accurate to say that Jett, Eli, Chase, Kenny and maybe Webb would stand out even further from the rest if the technical difficulty...

It's probably more accurate to say that Jett, Eli, Chase, Kenny and maybe Webb would stand out even further from the rest if the technical difficulty of the tracks increases. 

Would have been nice to see 10 whoops and some dragon backs fa sho

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ando
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5/14/2024 6:22pm Edited Date/Time 5/14/2024 6:23pm

True, because the field consists of vet riders

ando wrote:
It's probably more accurate to say that Jett, Eli, Chase, Kenny and maybe Webb would stand out even further from the rest if the technical difficulty...

It's probably more accurate to say that Jett, Eli, Chase, Kenny and maybe Webb would stand out even further from the rest if the technical difficulty of the tracks increases. 

Would have been nice to see 10 whoops and some dragon backs fa sho

I actually like the idea of 10 whoops, although really I would prefer the older long whoop sections.  If there really was data showing that 9 whoops was the safest, I doubt 10 would be much different.  But the thing with 10 whoops is that it doesn't allow the jumpers to just go 3-3-3 and be done.  They would have to think about the last extra whoop or come up with some slightly different rhythm.

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971_Fan
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5/14/2024 7:37pm
ando wrote:

Rugby players would suffer as many injuries as MX riders; they typically peak around 30 and play well into their 30’s.

Yes, but the range and effects of injuries would be different. Rugby players could get along quite well with thumb or wrist injuries if they are relatively minor, whereas that's not true in supercross or motocross.

Being competitive in sx or motocross also relies heavily on reaction time and reflexes, which decline as a person gets into their 30s.  I'm not an expert so take it with a grain of salt, but as I previously stated, I'd like to see if any of these studies pulled data from racing dirt bikes at the professional level.  

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Herr Lich
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Athletic ability, or at least the athletic ability needed for racing MX, is not in decline at 30. The median age for setting an athletic world...

Athletic ability, or at least the athletic ability needed for racing MX, is not in decline at 30. The median age for setting an athletic world record is 28

971_Fan wrote:
I'm wondering if the studies you are using pulled any data from motocross racing.  RC, RV, Dungey, and a host of other top riders either retired...

I'm wondering if the studies you are using pulled any data from motocross racing. 

RC, RV, Dungey, and a host of other top riders either retired before 30, or were past their best years. 

Supercross and motocross, with high rates of injuries is different than other sports. 

ando wrote:

Rugby players would suffer as many injuries as MX riders; they typically peak around 30 and play well into their 30’s.

Yeah, but it very much depends on the position.  Wingers, who rely on speed and explosive power from fast twitch fibers, typically retire earlier - unless they can reinvent their game to rely on skill and nouse more than raw physical prowess. 

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CPR
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Athletic ability, or at least the athletic ability needed for racing MX, is not in decline at 30. The median age for setting an athletic world...

Athletic ability, or at least the athletic ability needed for racing MX, is not in decline at 30. The median age for setting an athletic world record is 28

971_Fan wrote:
I'm wondering if the studies you are using pulled any data from motocross racing.  RC, RV, Dungey, and a host of other top riders either retired...

I'm wondering if the studies you are using pulled any data from motocross racing. 

RC, RV, Dungey, and a host of other top riders either retired before 30, or were past their best years. 

Supercross and motocross, with high rates of injuries is different than other sports. 

ando wrote:

Rugby players would suffer as many injuries as MX riders; they typically peak around 30 and play well into their 30’s.

Not the same physical stressors, but probably not a bad comparison. I’d think the mental strain of moto would be the main difference.

KHNC
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5/15/2024 7:27am

True, because the field consists of vet riders

ando wrote:
It's probably more accurate to say that Jett, Eli, Chase, Kenny and maybe Webb would stand out even further from the rest if the technical difficulty...

It's probably more accurate to say that Jett, Eli, Chase, Kenny and maybe Webb would stand out even further from the rest if the technical difficulty of the tracks increases. 

Would have been nice to see 10 whoops and some dragon backs fa sho

I mean who has seen Jett win on tracks with those obstacles? He is damn good no doubt, but who's to say he would be so good if the tracks were different every week , like the old days. With significantly different triples, long whoop sections, dragons back etc....

Sure, he would probably adapt, but he wouldnt be able to practice on the same track week after week before the race on the cookie cutter setup. 

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kxking
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ando wrote:
It's probably more accurate to say that Jett, Eli, Chase, Kenny and maybe Webb would stand out even further from the rest if the technical difficulty...

It's probably more accurate to say that Jett, Eli, Chase, Kenny and maybe Webb would stand out even further from the rest if the technical difficulty of the tracks increases. 

Would have been nice to see 10 whoops and some dragon backs fa sho

KHNC wrote:
I mean who has seen Jett win on tracks with those obstacles? He is damn good no doubt, but who's to say he would be so...

I mean who has seen Jett win on tracks with those obstacles? He is damn good no doubt, but who's to say he would be so good if the tracks were different every week , like the old days. With significantly different triples, long whoop sections, dragons back etc....

Sure, he would probably adapt, but he wouldnt be able to practice on the same track week after week before the race on the cookie cutter setup. 

Didn't they tame a track down after practice because Jett was going 3-3-5 in a rhythm section. They took out the last jump and changed the take-off I believe?

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KHNC
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Would have been nice to see 10 whoops and some dragon backs fa sho

KHNC wrote:
I mean who has seen Jett win on tracks with those obstacles? He is damn good no doubt, but who's to say he would be so...

I mean who has seen Jett win on tracks with those obstacles? He is damn good no doubt, but who's to say he would be so good if the tracks were different every week , like the old days. With significantly different triples, long whoop sections, dragons back etc....

Sure, he would probably adapt, but he wouldnt be able to practice on the same track week after week before the race on the cookie cutter setup. 

kxking wrote:
Didn't they tame a track down after practice because Jett was going 3-3-5 in a rhythm section. They took out the last jump and changed the...

Didn't they tame a track down after practice because Jett was going 3-3-5 in a rhythm section. They took out the last jump and changed the take-off I believe?

Maybe so, dont recall that happening this year. Maybe in the 250's possibly. 

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M1000
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Jett had stiffest completion ever. Four past Supercross champions. Couple two time champions. McGrath had it easy. Bayle retired and McGrath assumed Bayles ride. Only had to beat Stanton as a previous champion. McGrath was a supercross specialist. Most his races were over by the third lap. Whereas Jett is the complete package. Now Jett needs to continue winning for next 10 years call it a day. Perhaps him and Hunter can join  sidecar MX in there thirty’s. 

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5/15/2024 4:33pm
KHNC wrote:
I mean who has seen Jett win on tracks with those obstacles? He is damn good no doubt, but who's to say he would be so...

I mean who has seen Jett win on tracks with those obstacles? He is damn good no doubt, but who's to say he would be so good if the tracks were different every week , like the old days. With significantly different triples, long whoop sections, dragons back etc....

Sure, he would probably adapt, but he wouldnt be able to practice on the same track week after week before the race on the cookie cutter setup. 

kxking wrote:
Didn't they tame a track down after practice because Jett was going 3-3-5 in a rhythm section. They took out the last jump and changed the...

Didn't they tame a track down after practice because Jett was going 3-3-5 in a rhythm section. They took out the last jump and changed the take-off I believe?

KHNC wrote:

Maybe so, dont recall that happening this year. Maybe in the 250's possibly. 

It was the first race of the year at Anaheim.

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SFOBB
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ando wrote:
In terms of championships: Jett was up against 4 past champions (Tomac, Webb, Anderson, Sexton) with 6 championships Dungey up against 2 past champions (Reed and...

In terms of championships:

Jett was up against 4 past champions (Tomac, Webb, Anderson, Sexton) with 6 championships

Dungey up against 2 past champions (Reed and Stewart) with 4 championships

MC was up against one past champion (Stanton) with 3 championships

In all three years they had the defending champion to deal with.

 

Think about what you wrote dumb dumb, the difference during MC's  time is no one could beat him, so you can say MC didn't have any past champions to compete with, that's because he was year after year the champion. 

Ding Dong 

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SoCalMX70
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M1000 wrote:
Jett had stiffest completion ever. Four past Supercross champions. Couple two time champions. McGrath had it easy. Bayle retired and McGrath assumed Bayles ride. Only had...

Jett had stiffest completion ever. Four past Supercross champions. Couple two time champions. McGrath had it easy. Bayle retired and McGrath assumed Bayles ride. Only had to beat Stanton as a previous champion. McGrath was a supercross specialist. Most his races were over by the third lap. Whereas Jett is the complete package. Now Jett needs to continue winning for next 10 years call it a day. Perhaps him and Hunter can join  sidecar MX in there thirty’s. 

 72 wins and 7 SX championships "easy". Outdoor Champion "easy". MXdN "easy"...

Jett has it easy too then... Racing a bunch of 30+ year olds because no one is coming up and taking their places. These guys aren't faster than they were 4-5 years ago.

Jett is generational in the same way MC was. No one else is doing what he's doing on a bike right now.

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5/15/2024 7:01pm
ando wrote:
In terms of championships: Jett was up against 4 past champions (Tomac, Webb, Anderson, Sexton) with 6 championships Dungey up against 2 past champions (Reed and...

In terms of championships:

Jett was up against 4 past champions (Tomac, Webb, Anderson, Sexton) with 6 championships

Dungey up against 2 past champions (Reed and Stewart) with 4 championships

MC was up against one past champion (Stanton) with 3 championships

In all three years they had the defending champion to deal with.

 

SFOBB wrote:
Think about what you wrote dumb dumb, the difference during MC's  time is no one could beat him, so you can say MC didn't have any...

Think about what you wrote dumb dumb, the difference during MC's  time is no one could beat him, so you can say MC didn't have any past champions to compete with, that's because he was year after year the champion. 

Ding Dong 

When Jeremy McGraph won his first title in 1993, he had one past champion, Jeff Stanton to compete with, previous champions Jean-Michel Bayle, Rick Johnson, Jeff Ward were no longer competing.

Jeff Stanton said he was burned out...

image-20240516120046-2

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ando
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5/15/2024 11:14pm
ando wrote:
In terms of championships: Jett was up against 4 past champions (Tomac, Webb, Anderson, Sexton) with 6 championships Dungey up against 2 past champions (Reed and...

In terms of championships:

Jett was up against 4 past champions (Tomac, Webb, Anderson, Sexton) with 6 championships

Dungey up against 2 past champions (Reed and Stewart) with 4 championships

MC was up against one past champion (Stanton) with 3 championships

In all three years they had the defending champion to deal with.

 

SFOBB wrote:
Think about what you wrote dumb dumb, the difference during MC's  time is no one could beat him, so you can say MC didn't have any...

Think about what you wrote dumb dumb, the difference during MC's  time is no one could beat him, so you can say MC didn't have any past champions to compete with, that's because he was year after year the champion. 

Ding Dong 

The comparison is for his rookie year, as per the thread title.

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decano51
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5/15/2024 11:18pm
ando wrote:
In terms of championships: Jett was up against 4 past champions (Tomac, Webb, Anderson, Sexton) with 6 championships Dungey up against 2 past champions (Reed and...

In terms of championships:

Jett was up against 4 past champions (Tomac, Webb, Anderson, Sexton) with 6 championships

Dungey up against 2 past champions (Reed and Stewart) with 4 championships

MC was up against one past champion (Stanton) with 3 championships

In all three years they had the defending champion to deal with.

 

SFOBB wrote:
Think about what you wrote dumb dumb, the difference during MC's  time is no one could beat him, so you can say MC didn't have any...

Think about what you wrote dumb dumb, the difference during MC's  time is no one could beat him, so you can say MC didn't have any past champions to compete with, that's because he was year after year the champion. 

Ding Dong 

ando wrote:

The comparison is for his rookie year, as per the thread title.

you know some fellas struggle to stay on topic haha

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