Neutered Motocross Tracks

As a working adult with a family and a job that requires me being able to carry a 65lbs backpack of tools and lots of ladders I'm ok with the humped tabletops. Not sure why they would get rid of berms though?

The vet crowd has absolutely ruined every track in this area, they’re all flat freeways with no lips on the jumps and nothing to slow people down or separate them.  Any time they try to put something technical or challenging in the track it’s an immediate bitch fest because their ego can’t handle not being able to hit a certain jump or do a section perfectly, so what we’re left with are basic tracks you could ride with your eyes closed.  I don’t know how anyone thinks it’s safer to be on a fast track in 3rd and 4th gear everywhere, you might not crash as much as you would on a technical track but when you do it’s pretty catastrophic rather than a small tip over.  

All the cool kids have private tracks now with big booters & massive quads…. Public tracks have probably figured out the majority of the paying customers are Vets & novices….. there is a new track philosophy in the northeast…. Its called the continuous rut track….if you want to be the best…you have to ride continuous ruts….

I haven’t really experienced what you all are saying. Generally the tracks near me fill every straightaway with endless jumps. Motocross isn’t supposed to be supercross.

As a +55 Vet and one that has to be at work, I seek out tracks similar to these.  And/or love the sprint enduro/cross country natural layouts.  All said, most promotors (at least in my area) make more $ from Vets and beginners.  Trick is to offer a decent layout for them and fast guys and have as few ambulance rides as possible.  MX is not SX. Period.   Sadly many of our iconic National tracks are being forced by MXSports to have man made SX obstacles.  

Ha! Vets

What you have is old beginners not vets.

Vet denotes you have been riding for years and know how. These tracks are for old beginners.

These guys come out to my private track at times on their big 450s and it's so sad to watch them roll around not knowing how to navagate a proper motocross track.

If you are old and need to be able to go to work on mon then take up golf and leave moto to those who can. I'm 67 btw and a true vet racing since the 70's.

In the 90's most MX tracks turned to SX tracks. They got tougher and tougher, with long whoops and doubles/triples. Lots of crashes every weekend. Plenty of injuries. I agree, lots of old beginners out there. Not as many true vets. Even myself, as a former 125/250b racer in the 90's, i was out of riding for 22 years. Took me 3-4 months to get back in the groove of jumping. Now i feel im at back to 75% of my younger self on MX tracks. I do go to practice days occasionally , and am glad to see easier stuff to hit. I despise deep muddy corners and no berms. Rut fests are pure shit in my opinion. I solved it buy getting a skid steer and building my own .6 mile track at the house. I get tired of an obstacle, i build a new one. My whoop sections are sets of 2 doubles before corners. Table tops and uphill doubles too. I dont mess with triples nowadays. Just larger tabletops. 

That's exactly right. I'm 36 now getting to "Vet" age and I sorely miss the early 2000s era tracks. Tons of separation... but people can't handle it when an expert 85 rider is doing jumps that they are too scared to do on their 450s. That was an awesome time. Tracks are much more boring now. I remember when fair races looked like supercross tracks. Now they look like pitbike tracks

As someone who volunteers to operate and maintain a motocross track, I've had my fair share of sitting there with a rider waiting for the ambulance.  As the years go by and accidents pile up, it's only human nature to limit those experiences.  I've seen kids have life changing injuries which has imprinted on me and how I prep a track or change an obstacle.  I take pride on the conversation focusing on how smoothly the race day went as opposed to how many ambulance rides there were. Also the liability aspect of operating a MX track is ever increasing and when lawyers say they can pick apart what ever liability waiver you may have the riders sign, it makes for a difficult situation.

The old F’ers of my era…my age…I’m 60…

Seem to HATE the mere mention of “Whoops“! 

WTF?! Am I racing with a bunch of AMA/ Feld SX Race Officials?! 

I think a lot of the tracks are set up to keep accidents down.  I also think has to do with rider turnout.  During the week/Fridays, lots of Vet riders.  So I'd guess who is turning out could be driving track difficulty.  I was at Rio Bravo a few Fridays back and I'd guess there were maybe two riders that were 20 to 30 years old.  The rest were all over 50.  That may have changed later in the day, I was out by 1:30, 2 ish.  Lot of old guys still ride.

Follow the money$$$$$$$$$$ Vet riders on up to super senior riders, we have the money to spend so why would the track owners and operators not cater to the crowd with the cash to spend. 

I just came back from a layoff of about 12 years about 6 months ago. I was a mid B rider in my 20s. At bigger events. I would run open pro at races with smaller turnouts just to have more riders on the gate.

When I go to practice days today, I’m a little shocked at how tamed down the jumps are now. The tracks are more similar to the beginner tracks of the 90s. Of course the jumps on the main tracks are bigger than those on the bigger track.
 

I understand it with track owners afraid of being sued. It’s important for the industry to keep people in the sport as well.
 

I’ve shifted most of my racing to hare scrambles now so the tamed down tracks don’t bother me, but in my 20s it probably would have. I liked to be one of the few guys clearing the big doubles on practice days. It was an ego boost if I’m being honest.

Let’s also not forget that races are won and lost in the corners. There were times in the 90s where guys who didn’t clear the big obstacles were actually faster than the guys who were jumping them. Maybe the tamed down tracks really do let the better riders win?

Things to ponder….

The removal of bowl turns confused the hell out of me until I spoke to Tevin Tapia who works at Perris. He claims the one large bowl turn they had on the track when the track opened was responsible for more major injuries than any other feature on the track. 
 

Seems crazy but he pointed to several specific instances.  

Who knew there were so many bad asses here....guess they will have to travel to find the challenge/reward or keep sniveling and talk back at the pits.

Slot car type conditions are way more challenging than big jumps. Anybody can jump. I prefer ruts all the way across the track over flat, choppy, blown out turns with no traction. 

People like you are an issue to this sport. Who cares if they’re slow and new to riding? How do you expect them to learn? Whats wrong with them going out and just having fun, whether they’re new and slow or a seasoned vet who can ride fast? Isn’t this sport supposed to be all about having fun, not measuring who’s fastest on practice days? Their money is just as good as yours. You’re no better than anyone else spending money to have fun riding a dirt bike. 

Anybody can jump *easy tabletops* but I can assure you there was a time when jumps were a massive factor. They just aren't anymore. Bikes are way better and the jumps are tamed down. So now, anyone can jump everything on the track. 

Been racing almost 35 years so I feel like I’ve been around to see a few jumps. If you are jumping everything, so are the guys at your skill level that you’d be racing with. Jumping is easy. That’s why all the weekend practice guys jump everything, but still can’t go fast. The bikes are much better now. Making “difficult” jumps has higher consequences than it used to.

I'm going to name drop a bit, but Big Dave Coombs told me one time that he built a track where 70% of the riders can do ALL the jumps when you take out the 50cc and at the time 60cc riders. That seems like a good target to shoot for. Now, there are many 65cc riders doing HUGE jumps so you might have to add them in now lol. Jumps are not really the issue as much as the axle deep ruts everywhere. A nice rut berm is fun, but when you have ruts everywhere it takes the fun out for me. 

After riding this weekend I can say It's definitely happening here in Socal. A class riders and kids throwing massive whips for their insta-bangers with rap music probably hate it, but I love it. I'm just an average guy working 9-5 who wants to have fun on a well thought out track and not be in any danger. Why do we need sketchy 100 foot jumps on public tracks? Aren't the majority of people attending these facilities mortals working regular jobs who want to have fun and not leave in the back of an ambulance? To each their own.

Same my brother, same. 

If it wasn't for us 40 and older guys going to the tracks every week, paying our gate fees, having fun, there wouldn't be anywhere public for the banger crowd to do their thing anyways.

The biggest injuries seem to come from people getting landed on. I get not having huge jumps on local motocross tracks for this reason. 

Jumps and obstacles: I'd say they're a bit tamer overall.  The jumps are probably longer, but are all tables & step downs, versus doubles & triples in the 90's and 00's.  Rarely do you see whoops at a local track anymore - they're rollers at most.  

Track prep: The trendy thing is to rip it deep and overwater it.  It caters to the Loretta's wannabes; and I stress wannabes.  I'd guess 90% of people don't like the rut-o-rama track prep, but are too afraid to speak up. I like a rough track with berms and ruts in the corners, but many tracks are overdoing it.  A fast rider's going to be fast, and a slow rider slow, regardless of whether we have ruts down a 50 mph straightaway.

If you don’t rip and water it, it’s dry and dusty by 11am and you can never get any moisture back into it the rest of the day.

what is all the bitching about ripped and watered? That’s exactly what good track prep is.  
 

if I get there and it’s concrete hard and they throw water on top, what kind of shit hole conditions is that?

Lostboy819^^^ is exactly right!

I ride the tracks in Norcal that JM485 is referencing, and without us old dudes and vet riders, Sexton and the other promoters won't have a sustainable income to operate the tracks and stay open.

Just saying...

Hate that bullshit those conditions are the cause of my acl tear and are dangerous. 

I get what you guys are saying, but I'm not fully understanding the logic of why we need tracks that are this basic.  I've never in my life seen a motocross track that was inherently dangerous, what makes it dangerous is our egos getting in the way and choosing to do obstacles outside of our skill level.  Nobody is forcing you to jump that double, nor is anybody forcing you to try to skim whoops, those are choices that we make as riders.  When I was first starting I didn't go and complain when there were jumps I couldn't do, I just worked my way up over time and tried to ride at a level that was safe for me at any given time.

Are these "safer" tracks really any safer?  Seems like in the last few years I've seen more ambulance rides leaving the track than ever before, and I think these tracks are partially to blame.  To me a 70 feet table top build like a ski jump is a lot more dangerous than a 30 foot double, mainly because if something goes wrong the crash is going to be a lot more severe, and also because it's too inviting for beginners to try a jump that is way outside their ability.  In BMX you usually have what we call a "squid filter" right at the beginning of a trail set that's somewhat awkward or weird to jump because it discourages riders with a lower skill level from trying the set before they get to the larger jumps that they could hurt themselves on.  Same thing applies on a motocross track, the "easy" jumps and tracks are too inviting and give people a false sense of security, and at a much higher speed than before.  

Not being able to jumps everything or complete every section of a track perfectly shouldn't be a demeaning experience or anything that should be looked down on, we really need to change our collective mindset about this so we can have tracks that allow progression again.  I'm not looking for giant triples or anything like that, just something that's at least a little bit technical or challenging to slow the tracks down and make you think a little bit about how to best approach it.    

There's a happy medium to be found between a super deep rip and watered and no rip and watered. Shallow to mid level rips and consistent watering is fine for 6 hours of practice.

I only ride a deeply ripped track if I absolutely have to, such as in a race situation. Beyond that I'm out... One ACL reconstruction was enough.