AMA Misses Cooper's Gate Violation...

Zoom
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I guess with all the focus on Jett's tire cover, AMA missed Cooper's gate violation. From the rule book...

"Motorcycles must be centered in the starting gate."

IMG 20240307 192635202 HDR

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mikelawlor
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3/7/2024 5:37pm

Really splitting hairs here. He’s off a little maybe.

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Zoom
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3/7/2024 5:46pm Edited Date/Time 3/7/2024 5:48pm
mikelawlor wrote:

Really splitting hairs here. He’s off a little maybe.

Look how close he is to Roczen and how much space between him and Plessinger. Probably off center by several inches. 

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3/7/2024 5:47pm

Dude if look at your picture using the worn paint as center on the gates, yes Cooper is lined up off centey to his right.

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ILoveMoto
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3/7/2024 5:53pm

What advantage did he gain?

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The Shop

3/7/2024 5:54pm

If you look at the picture, yes Cooper is lined up off center to his right. Now using the worn paint on the gate as center both the #7 and the #18 are lined up off center to their left. You want to throw them all out or just pick on #32?

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Spoonguy
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3/7/2024 6:04pm

Good grief...  

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bvm111
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3/7/2024 6:06pm

IMG 8192 30

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Johnny Ringo
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3/7/2024 6:08pm
mikelawlor wrote:

Really splitting hairs here. He’s off a little maybe.

Zoom wrote:

Look how close he is to Roczen and how much space between him and Plessinger. Probably off center by several inches. 

If that is several inches then I have an 8- inch cock

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gerg
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3/7/2024 6:17pm

Nothing to see here at all.

Now if it was Jett on the other hand....

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loftyair
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3/7/2024 6:22pm

Those gates seem wide. I don't remember having more than 3-4 inches on either side.

aeffertz
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3/7/2024 6:30pm
gerg wrote:

Nothing to see here at all.

Now if it was Jett on the other hand....

Yeah I was gonna say.. 

had this been a top guy, 20 pager because it’s a clear cut violation of the rule. But because it’s a mid pack guy with no following the popular response is “KARENS! Let em race!” Now I don’t think the rules should be applied retroactively but it’s foolish to look at this and go “nothing to see here.” They got away with it and it is what it is. But 100% you can’t do that shit. Grinning

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disbanded
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3/7/2024 6:30pm

He could definitely be lining up off-center just enough to miss a big rut

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TeamGreen
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3/7/2024 6:31pm
ILoveMoto wrote:

What advantage did he gain?

Possibly trying to avoid a rut/hole at gate exit….

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ILoveMoto
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3/7/2024 6:33pm
ILoveMoto wrote:

What advantage did he gain?

TeamGreen wrote:

Possibly trying to avoid a rut/hole at gate exit….

Makes sense 👍

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loftyair
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3/7/2024 6:36pm

If Roczen doesn't care...

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aeffertz
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3/7/2024 6:40pm

My memory is failing me at the moment but I remember someone in the recent past getting forced to last gate pick or a penalty was in place because on the sight lap, they did a huge burn out in front on the gate to clean out the rut in front of the gate. I’m pretty sure it was Mike Alessi but it could’ve been a MCR guy. The rules state you can’t touch the dirt in front of the gate but they tried to be clever and got caught in the moment. And that was fair! Just like if they got caught in this moment, it would be fair to penalize them. 
 

Imagine being the dude next to J Coop and being like “why is his elbow on me right now?”

Johnny Ringo
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3/7/2024 6:42pm
aeffertz wrote:
My memory is failing me at the moment but I remember someone in the recent past getting forced to last gate pick or a penalty was...

My memory is failing me at the moment but I remember someone in the recent past getting forced to last gate pick or a penalty was in place because on the sight lap, they did a huge burn out in front on the gate to clean out the rut in front of the gate. I’m pretty sure it was Mike Alessi but it could’ve been a MCR guy. The rules state you can’t touch the dirt in front of the gate but they tried to be clever and got caught in the moment. And that was fair! Just like if they got caught in this moment, it would be fair to penalize them. 
 

Imagine being the dude next to J Coop and being like “why is his elbow on me right now?”

Just happened to Breece

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Donk122
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3/7/2024 6:42pm

I think its just the angle of the pic... plus, Cooper is closer to the gate than AP is, so it adds to the illusion. If you look at Coopers rear wheel, its in the center of the cleaned off grate. Also, it was muddy conditions, so they would have cleaned the hell out of the grate, so he wouldn't intentionally line up off of it. Also, also, highly likely the rut exiting the gate is in the center so furthering the point of him not intentionally lining up off center.

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aeffertz
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3/7/2024 6:55pm
Donk122 wrote:
I think its just the angle of the pic... plus, Cooper is closer to the gate than AP is, so it adds to the illusion. If...

I think its just the angle of the pic... plus, Cooper is closer to the gate than AP is, so it adds to the illusion. If you look at Coopers rear wheel, its in the center of the cleaned off grate. Also, it was muddy conditions, so they would have cleaned the hell out of the grate, so he wouldn't intentionally line up off of it. Also, also, highly likely the rut exiting the gate is in the center so furthering the point of him not intentionally lining up off center.

So you’re saying it’s highly likely there was a rut in the center of the gate and you can’t possibly see the reason why someone would want to try and offset themselves and it’s probably just an optical illusion even though tie riders surrounding him appear to be centered on the gate?

3/7/2024 6:55pm
Zoom wrote:
I guess with all the focus on Jett's tire cover, AMA missed Cooper's gate violation. From the rule book... "Motorcycles must be centered in the starting...

I guess with all the focus on Jett's tire cover, AMA missed Cooper's gate violation. From the rule book...

"Motorcycles must be centered in the starting gate."

IMG 20240307 192635202 HDR

The rule states...

image-20240308135008-1

The center of the gate is not marked, there is no tolerance for how close to the center the bike needs to be, this rule like many other AMA rules is unenforceable.

If the AMA wanted to make it enforceable, they could paint 2 lines a tire width apart or slightly wider apart, in the center of the gate, if the tires are outside the line, the bike is not in the center, and the rider could be penalized.

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Zoom
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3/7/2024 6:57pm

The rule is pretty simple. You have to line up in the .middle of the gate. Doesn't matter how the rut is in front of the gate or where the rut is. Just gotta line up in the middle. 

Not saying he gained an advantage. Just pointing out the AMA missed a call. I've seen them make riders move to the center many times. 

 

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gerg
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3/7/2024 6:59pm
Donk122 wrote:
I think its just the angle of the pic... plus, Cooper is closer to the gate than AP is, so it adds to the illusion. If...

I think its just the angle of the pic... plus, Cooper is closer to the gate than AP is, so it adds to the illusion. If you look at Coopers rear wheel, its in the center of the cleaned off grate. Also, it was muddy conditions, so they would have cleaned the hell out of the grate, so he wouldn't intentionally line up off of it. Also, also, highly likely the rut exiting the gate is in the center so furthering the point of him not intentionally lining up off center.

It's not an optical illusion, take a look at where his feet stands are placed on the start grate.

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3/7/2024 7:03pm
ILoveMoto wrote:

What advantage did he gain?

He was getting away from AP's flatulence.

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Jeremy A.K.
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3/7/2024 7:10pm

Jett is just as much off center but in the other direction

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ILoveMoto
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3/7/2024 7:10pm

He was getting away from AP's flatulence.

Well Cowboys have been known to eat some beans while on the range 

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Shred
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3/7/2024 7:11pm
mikelawlor wrote:

Really splitting hairs here. He’s off a little maybe.

Zoom wrote:

Look how close he is to Roczen and how much space between him and Plessinger. Probably off center by several inches. 

If that is several inches then I have an 8- inch cock

You say that like that’s big???

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Village Idiot
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3/7/2024 7:21pm
Zoom wrote:
I guess with all the focus on Jett's tire cover, AMA missed Cooper's gate violation. From the rule book... "Motorcycles must be centered in the starting...

I guess with all the focus on Jett's tire cover, AMA missed Cooper's gate violation. From the rule book...

"Motorcycles must be centered in the starting gate."

IMG 20240307 192635202 HDR

The rule states... The center of the gate is not marked, there is no tolerance for how close to the center the bike needs to be...

The rule states...

image-20240308135008-1

The center of the gate is not marked, there is no tolerance for how close to the center the bike needs to be, this rule like many other AMA rules is unenforceable.

If the AMA wanted to make it enforceable, they could paint 2 lines a tire width apart or slightly wider apart, in the center of the gate, if the tires are outside the line, the bike is not in the center, and the rider could be penalized.

This is what I was going to say.

Say what you will about NASCAR, but they would define how far off a clearly defined "centerline" the rider could be and still be "centered". What is the tolerance? Because I'm certain no one is perfectly centered within a millimeter, so at what point are they not centered? 5mm? 8mm? 25mm? Organizations like NASCAR, Indy, F1, where there are tremendous amounts of money at stake, clearly define limits so they can be measured and a violation is demonstrable to all parties to avoid the appearance of favoritism toward a party. Car too low? Got a measurement for it. Spoiler at the wrong angle? Got a template for it. Is it perfect - no system is - but they have a rulebook with waaaay more specifics than most would care to know about so everyone knows what they can and can't do.

AMA - Not centered in the gate? Got a photo taken from an angle of the rider and then they get an anonymous janitorial staff to vote on what constitutes centered. Sounds fair to me. Dizzy

Without black and white limits it's another ambiguous term left open to interpretation, possibly resulting in the impression of favoritism on the part of the enforcing agent by those affected by a ruling.

Good thing this is the only ambiguous rule in the AMA rulebook. Can you imagine if they had a whole bunch of them like this? Whistling

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gb4mx
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3/7/2024 7:27pm
Zoom wrote:
I guess with all the focus on Jett's tire cover, AMA missed Cooper's gate violation. From the rule book... "Motorcycles must be centered in the starting...

I guess with all the focus on Jett's tire cover, AMA missed Cooper's gate violation. From the rule book...

"Motorcycles must be centered in the starting gate."

IMG 20240307 192635202 HDR

The rule states... The center of the gate is not marked, there is no tolerance for how close to the center the bike needs to be...

The rule states...

image-20240308135008-1

The center of the gate is not marked, there is no tolerance for how close to the center the bike needs to be, this rule like many other AMA rules is unenforceable.

If the AMA wanted to make it enforceable, they could paint 2 lines a tire width apart or slightly wider apart, in the center of the gate, if the tires are outside the line, the bike is not in the center, and the rider could be penalized.

I like your thinking, but By Gosh, more duties for the AMA? 

APLMAN99
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3/7/2024 7:28pm
Zoom wrote:
The rule is pretty simple. You have to line up in the .middle of the gate. Doesn't matter how the rut is in front of the...

The rule is pretty simple. You have to line up in the .middle of the gate. Doesn't matter how the rut is in front of the gate or where the rut is. Just gotta line up in the middle. 

Not saying he gained an advantage. Just pointing out the AMA missed a call. I've seen them make riders move to the center many times. 

 

The rule is not that simple. I’d bet that on any 20-22 bike start, not a single bike is perfectly centered on the gate. There’s no definition of ‘the middle of the gate’ so that’s a pretty vague range. If you can absolutely prove that every other bike is perfectly centered (down to the millimeter) on the starting gate, then you might have a very small point. Otherwise you’re just being a jackwagon. 

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Village Idiot
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3/7/2024 7:29pm
Zoom wrote:
I guess with all the focus on Jett's tire cover, AMA missed Cooper's gate violation. From the rule book... "Motorcycles must be centered in the starting...

I guess with all the focus on Jett's tire cover, AMA missed Cooper's gate violation. From the rule book...

"Motorcycles must be centered in the starting gate."

IMG 20240307 192635202 HDR

The rule states... The center of the gate is not marked, there is no tolerance for how close to the center the bike needs to be...

The rule states...

image-20240308135008-1

The center of the gate is not marked, there is no tolerance for how close to the center the bike needs to be, this rule like many other AMA rules is unenforceable.

If the AMA wanted to make it enforceable, they could paint 2 lines a tire width apart or slightly wider apart, in the center of the gate, if the tires are outside the line, the bike is not in the center, and the rider could be penalized.

The other thing I like about that rule is the last sentence - "Riders may not start at an angle".

Okay... then everyone is violating the rule - because even if you're exactly perpendicular to the gate you are at a 90 degree angle... which is still an angleGrinning

I know what the intent is, but the way it's written is, umm, lacking? The more I read the AMA rulebook the more I laugh at the effort put into it. Silly

 

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