Honda CR ELECTRIC PROTO in All Japan Motocross Championship 2023 Round 8, Saitama

KurtJ99
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10/6/2023 9:22am

I didn't put my money down for Stark (should have), but I absolutely will buy the Honda. I have a psychological impairment with leaving the Honda brand so with a CRE I can keep my OCD. 

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seth505
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10/6/2023 9:26am

I'm holding out for an RM-ZEEE

27
SCIENCE
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10/6/2023 10:07am
JMX82 wrote:
HRC - Honda Racing Corporation just released news that they are going to race Electric powered CR in Japan. The bike looks much more defined than...

HRC - Honda Racing Corporation just released news that they are going to race Electric powered CR in Japan. The bike looks much more defined than Mugen version that we have seen before   

"The electric motocrosser CR ELECTRIC PROTO will be entered in the D.I.D All Japan Motocross Championship 2023 Round 8, Saitama.

This will be Honda's first attempt to enter a Honda-developed electric motorcycle in the All

Japan Championship, and will make a wildcard appearance as Team HRC, operated by HRC.

Trey Canard, 2010 AMA Pro Motocross 250 class champion, will ride the CR ELECTRIC PROTO at the event."

Original post on HRC Facebook page: https://shorturl.at/ckLN1

CR proto

Honda always does bikes right.  Though personally I would rather they rerelease the 125 and 250 2stroke.  E bikes are neat, but aren't really saving on emissions when they have to be charged by gas generators.  And they should have their own class, period. I really hope that Feld and MXSports never let these matriculate with gas powered bikes.   

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davistld01
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10/6/2023 10:11am Edited Date/Time 10/6/2023 10:13am
FGR01 wrote:

We should be able to watch live on this channel on race day:

https://www.youtube.com/@motolive1994

 

Cool! Looking forward to seeing Canard ride after all this time…and how well the ‘lectric Honda does against the conventional gas bikes.

BTW…that’s a damn good looking bike!

5

The Shop

10/6/2023 10:18am
wr74 wrote:
Good to see they aren’t giving up on mx !  Really if the stark is as good as all the reviews make it out to be...

Good to see they aren’t giving up on mx !  Really if the stark is as good as all the reviews make it out to be,  electric will be 50% plus of the mx market in two to three years.  Especially if Honda joins the party.

There’s no way on earth it will be over 50% in 2-3 years. Even if, everyone said they wanted one, it wouldn’t. 

5
McG194
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10/6/2023 10:27am

Honda unveils a competitive electric motocrosser. 

 

In other news Lorettas just found a class for them. 

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JM485
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10/6/2023 10:54am

So you guys want a bike with less power and less battery because it has a Honda logo on it?  Unless they go the route of smaller, swapable battery packs (which it doesn't look like is the case here) there is absolutely zero chance this performs at well as a Stark just based on space constraints alone.  

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bultokid
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10/6/2023 11:49am

Waiting on the KTM/GasGas version

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Beagle
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10/6/2023 12:02pm

Honestly this is great news, it means that Honda is becoming serious about this bike.

Either it disappoints in the race, which would highlight the Varg's performance, or it gets decent results which will mean more competitive electric bikes in the near future.

Obviously Honda is not going to wild card in their national championship without thorough testing so they must expect respectable (marketable) results.

And maybe, one day, they'll even release the spec sheet Whistling

3
10/6/2023 12:37pm

You guys can watch the livestream for every MFJ race on YouTube. The commentary is mostly in (broken) English, but still fun to watch if you have nothing else to watch!

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Pop Shmoke
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10/6/2023 12:40pm
GrapeApe wrote:

Some heads are going to explode if Honda gives its e-bikes the CR moniker lol

Haha.
 

It seems like so far theyre leaning towards CR-E but imo that doesnt roll off the tongue very well at all. I think ECR sounds better and flows better off the tongue. 
 

As far as the bike is concerned its interesting seeing the Honda going for a regular frame vs Alta and Stark. 
 


IMG 9165.jpeg?VersionId=y2MNxTS5 n2fCMFJMqv
IMG 9160 0
IMG 9159
 

A few people mentioned that this could cause the honda to have less battery life. My question is would the honda have a better handling chassis due to having the tried and true crf chassis vs a chassis that had to be formed to fit around the battery. Maybe thats the tradeoff theyre making? 

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AMetts
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10/6/2023 12:42pm

I feel like this announcement has gathered more hype than what it is. If Honda makes an electric bike it probably wont look anything like this. This is pretty much the same as the other hundreds of electric built conversions guys have been doing for years on various existing frames. 

If I had to guess Honda is using this more as an ongoing testing bike trying out the motor/components/cooling systems etc. 

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Fourth_Floor
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10/6/2023 12:44pm

Hopefully they can get the weight down on this thing.

10/6/2023 12:55pm

Hopefully they can get the weight down on this thing.

My guess is that it is the same weight as a CRF450.

Beagle
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10/6/2023 1:34pm
GrapeApe wrote:

Some heads are going to explode if Honda gives its e-bikes the CR moniker lol

Pop Shmoke wrote:
Haha.   It seems like so far theyre leaning towards CR-E but imo that doesnt roll off the tongue very well at all. I think ECR...

Haha.
 

It seems like so far theyre leaning towards CR-E but imo that doesnt roll off the tongue very well at all. I think ECR sounds better and flows better off the tongue. 
 

As far as the bike is concerned its interesting seeing the Honda going for a regular frame vs Alta and Stark. 
 


IMG 9165.jpeg?VersionId=y2MNxTS5 n2fCMFJMqv
IMG 9160 0
IMG 9159
 

A few people mentioned that this could cause the honda to have less battery life. My question is would the honda have a better handling chassis due to having the tried and true crf chassis vs a chassis that had to be formed to fit around the battery. Maybe thats the tradeoff theyre making? 

I think they've been the easy/lazy/clever way reusing crf250r frame (at least in the early versions). It's a chassis they know so well, have already studied extensively, so it removes one parameter from the equation to help them optimize the packaging, dimensioning and positioning various elements of the bike and see how it influences handling.

Once they're satisfied with the data collected I would expect them to build a proper prototype frame best suited to the different requirements and characteristics of an electric bike.

Just like Alta, Stark and other full size electric bike manufacturers do. Totally different beast (twice the power, twice the weight, three times more battery capacity) but take a look at what Ducati did for its MotoE, it is a prototype frame like no other, the very specifically shaped carbon fibre case of the battery pack acts as a stressed part of the chassis (which is a concept they initially developed with engines in MotoGP and now use on their sportbikes). 

https://www.epaddock.it/en/motoe-technical-data/the-ducati-motoe/

As to handling better than the Varg, we'll see about that, but that's a seriously tall order considering the number of pro riders stating that the Varg is the best handling bike they've ever ridden.

1
10/6/2023 2:09pm

The black rims look so incredibly ugly on that specific color scheme. Silver or gold wouldn't make it look so bottom heavy.

3
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TeamGreen
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10/6/2023 2:19pm
bvm111 wrote:
Is it just me but it looks like it is lower and longer in the seat through swingarm and rear wheel, sort of stretched out… probably...

Is it just me but it looks like it is lower and longer in the seat through swingarm and rear wheel, sort of stretched out… probably just me but, I think it looks really good! 

Isn’t it the same/previous gen CR chassis based bike that they’ve been running for a few years with some revamped plastic and graphics? 

I’m guessing they’re holding out for the “next-gen” CR chassis for a production variant. 2025-2026…? 

1
yota
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10/6/2023 2:56pm
GrapeApe wrote:

Some heads are going to explode if Honda gives its e-bikes the CR moniker lol

Pop Shmoke wrote:
Haha.   It seems like so far theyre leaning towards CR-E but imo that doesnt roll off the tongue very well at all. I think ECR...

Haha.
 

It seems like so far theyre leaning towards CR-E but imo that doesnt roll off the tongue very well at all. I think ECR sounds better and flows better off the tongue. 
 

As far as the bike is concerned its interesting seeing the Honda going for a regular frame vs Alta and Stark. 
 


IMG 9165.jpeg?VersionId=y2MNxTS5 n2fCMFJMqv
IMG 9160 0
IMG 9159
 

A few people mentioned that this could cause the honda to have less battery life. My question is would the honda have a better handling chassis due to having the tried and true crf chassis vs a chassis that had to be formed to fit around the battery. Maybe thats the tradeoff theyre making? 

it literally says "electric CR" on the shroud.  thus ECR.

10/6/2023 3:42pm
JM485 wrote:
So you guys want a bike with less power and less battery because it has a Honda logo on it?  Unless they go the route of...

So you guys want a bike with less power and less battery because it has a Honda logo on it?  Unless they go the route of smaller, swapable battery packs (which it doesn't look like is the case here) there is absolutely zero chance this performs at well as a Stark just based on space constraints alone.  

As crazy as it may sound. YES a lot of people would do just that. In the UTV world, Honda and Yamaha sport models are underpowered compared to the other SXS's in their class. They win people over with a reputation for reliability and being a good base to work off of. So far none of the Japanese brands have tried to build anything that is on the same level power or chassis wise as Polaris,Can am and now Speed.  They do cost a lot less than those crazy top of the heap high powered models though. 

Honda may also have some insight on what the rules will be for racing. And be building something that aligns with those rules? Or perhaps this bike is going to be a 250 class bike ? And they are running it in the 450 class because that was how they are able to get entered. 

 

I feel like a bike designed from the ground up to be electric should handle better than an adapted chassis will. To an extent a battery can be designed to be a certain shape and I feel like You would be shaping the battery around the chassis to an extent on either the Varg or a converted bike like the Honda. And chassis design would not be built around the shape of a battery. 

I'm happy to see a brand like Honda bringing out an electric MX bike and racing it. It should be cool to see .  I wonder if Stark could enter a Varg in the Japanese series? That would be even cooler to see,Josh Hill on a Varg and Trey on the Honda.  

2
Beagle
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10/6/2023 3:48pm Edited Date/Time 10/6/2023 3:49pm
GrapeApe wrote:

Some heads are going to explode if Honda gives its e-bikes the CR moniker lol

Pop Shmoke wrote:
Haha.   It seems like so far theyre leaning towards CR-E but imo that doesnt roll off the tongue very well at all. I think ECR...

Haha.
 

It seems like so far theyre leaning towards CR-E but imo that doesnt roll off the tongue very well at all. I think ECR sounds better and flows better off the tongue. 
 

As far as the bike is concerned its interesting seeing the Honda going for a regular frame vs Alta and Stark. 
 


IMG 9165.jpeg?VersionId=y2MNxTS5 n2fCMFJMqv
IMG 9160 0
IMG 9159
 

A few people mentioned that this could cause the honda to have less battery life. My question is would the honda have a better handling chassis due to having the tried and true crf chassis vs a chassis that had to be formed to fit around the battery. Maybe thats the tradeoff theyre making? 

yota wrote:

it literally says "electric CR" on the shroud.  thus ECR.

Yet it was previously introduced by Honda as the CR-E and its wildcard entry is now CR ELECTRIC PROTO. Maybe they have not made up their mind!

10/6/2023 5:30pm
bvm111 wrote:
Is it just me but it looks like it is lower and longer in the seat through swingarm and rear wheel, sort of stretched out… probably...

Is it just me but it looks like it is lower and longer in the seat through swingarm and rear wheel, sort of stretched out… probably just me but, I think it looks really good! 

TeamGreen wrote:
Isn’t it the same/previous gen CR chassis based bike that they’ve been running for a few years with some revamped plastic and graphics?  I’m guessing they’re...

Isn’t it the same/previous gen CR chassis based bike that they’ve been running for a few years with some revamped plastic and graphics? 

I’m guessing they’re holding out for the “next-gen” CR chassis for a production variant. 2025-2026…? 

No it's a newer chassis, it looks like the battery pack, motor and inverter have been redesigned, original patent on left, original prototype in the middle, new prototype on the right...

image-20231007112729-1

17
10/6/2023 7:27pm
GrapeApe wrote:

Some heads are going to explode if Honda gives its e-bikes the CR moniker lol

Pop Shmoke wrote:
Haha.   It seems like so far theyre leaning towards CR-E but imo that doesnt roll off the tongue very well at all. I think ECR...

Haha.
 

It seems like so far theyre leaning towards CR-E but imo that doesnt roll off the tongue very well at all. I think ECR sounds better and flows better off the tongue. 
 

As far as the bike is concerned its interesting seeing the Honda going for a regular frame vs Alta and Stark. 
 


IMG 9165.jpeg?VersionId=y2MNxTS5 n2fCMFJMqv
IMG 9160 0
IMG 9159
 

A few people mentioned that this could cause the honda to have less battery life. My question is would the honda have a better handling chassis due to having the tried and true crf chassis vs a chassis that had to be formed to fit around the battery. Maybe thats the tradeoff theyre making? 

Beagle wrote:
I think they've been the easy/lazy/clever way reusing crf250r frame (at least in the early versions). It's a chassis they know so well, have already studied...

I think they've been the easy/lazy/clever way reusing crf250r frame (at least in the early versions). It's a chassis they know so well, have already studied extensively, so it removes one parameter from the equation to help them optimize the packaging, dimensioning and positioning various elements of the bike and see how it influences handling.

Once they're satisfied with the data collected I would expect them to build a proper prototype frame best suited to the different requirements and characteristics of an electric bike.

Just like Alta, Stark and other full size electric bike manufacturers do. Totally different beast (twice the power, twice the weight, three times more battery capacity) but take a look at what Ducati did for its MotoE, it is a prototype frame like no other, the very specifically shaped carbon fibre case of the battery pack acts as a stressed part of the chassis (which is a concept they initially developed with engines in MotoGP and now use on their sportbikes). 

https://www.epaddock.it/en/motoe-technical-data/the-ducati-motoe/

As to handling better than the Varg, we'll see about that, but that's a seriously tall order considering the number of pro riders stating that the Varg is the best handling bike they've ever ridden.

Using an existing frame is a compromise, it allows them to develop the drive train, but reduces potential battery size, and therefore range...

image-20231007132354-1

If the Honda's battery does have the same storage capacity as the Starks, center of gravity will be higher.

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2
10/6/2023 7:59pm
bvm111 wrote:
Is it just me but it looks like it is lower and longer in the seat through swingarm and rear wheel, sort of stretched out… probably...

Is it just me but it looks like it is lower and longer in the seat through swingarm and rear wheel, sort of stretched out… probably just me but, I think it looks really good! 

Thought the same thing, maybe to handle the torque like hill climbers?

yak651
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Fantasy
10/6/2023 8:23pm

Would be cool if stark found a way and rider to enter the same race…

4
10/6/2023 8:28pm
yak651 wrote:

Would be cool if stark found a way and rider to enter the same race…

Stark has as much chance of race the All Japan Motorcross Championship, as racing the AMA Supercross or AMA Motocross Championships, you can't rock up with any bike, it needs to be approved by the governing bodies.

colintrax
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Taylorsville, GA, USA
10/6/2023 8:34pm
SCIENCE wrote:
Honda always does bikes right.  Though personally I would rather they rerelease the 125 and 250 2stroke.  E bikes are neat, but aren't really saving on...

Honda always does bikes right.  Though personally I would rather they rerelease the 125 and 250 2stroke.  E bikes are neat, but aren't really saving on emissions when they have to be charged by gas generators.  And they should have their own class, period. I really hope that Feld and MXSports never let these matriculate with gas powered bikes.   

I guess you didn't ride a first gen aluminum frame, or a 2009 450, or a first gen crf250r with the factory butter valves

4
bens 152
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10/6/2023 11:39pm

It’s hard to beat the look of the stark. But the Honda is close. 

4
10/7/2023 12:28am
bens 152 wrote:

It’s hard to beat the look of the stark. But the Honda is close. 

It's the performance that matters!

10/7/2023 1:48am

I would imagine that 450s will still be developed for many years to come. I am all for electric though. Perfect for someone with a home track on a small block of land (hopefully me one day!). I'll still keep my 125, but an electric bike would be fun as heck.

I mean, the Tesla we have is great too. Low running costs, tax breaks, cheap "fuel" - not much to hate.

1
Motofinne
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10/7/2023 1:53am
JM485 wrote:
That's a great prototype, but it's still really just a converted existing 450 chassis.  This works as somewhat of a proof of concept, but it's not...

That's a great prototype, but it's still really just a converted existing 450 chassis.  This works as somewhat of a proof of concept, but it's not nearly as optimal as what Stark and Alta did designing a chassis around the battery itself so that more space can be dedicated to it.  Just going off of the eyeball test I would bet that the largest battery they were able to fit in that bike was 4.5 kWh, while the Stark is 6.5 kWh.  It's going to be cool to see it run and they did a fantastic job on it, but I can almost guarantee that is not the bike Honda will be bringing to market when the time comes.  

I was about to say the same, it was the first thing that popped up in my head when i saw that.

No way that Honda's full production E-MX bike will be based on a ICE frame. I see this bike as only some kind of very early testing/concept testing. Otherwise it would be a rather letdown when they eventually have a production bike ready.

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