Shootouts Are Too Subjective

You have to wonder if there’s any point in them?

Given that we’ll all buy a bike, then tune suspension, then buy a pipe/ECU/cams/head work etc etc etc.. 

If we look at what Roczen & HEP has achieved this year on the ‘worst’ bike of the bunch, and understand that it’s all relative- we are all making our own mods to tune them in to suit us. 
we could all buy whichever colour we fancy and make our mods to suit us accordingly.

I would rather know that one bike has better ergonomics and a slimmer profile than to see that rider X, who we know absolutely nothing about, rode .2 seconds faster on a track that has variable conditions throughout the day. 

Feeling comfortable on the bike goes a long way towards being faster. The vast majority of people reading these shootouts probably aren’t elite racers and getting a bike they gel with is better than getting a bike that is 0.1% faster around the track 

What about when the track changes from lap 1 of doing timed laps and  lap 40? I like your idea there, but it might be hard  to make it a perfect comparison from bike to bike to bike solely based on lap times.

As others have said with the track conditions changing it would be hard to know how much stock to put into times. What was the bike and what was changing track conditions. 

While I think I understand what you are saying, what happens when you have 4 'pro level' riders come up with 4 different bikes that have the fastest lap times?  You would have to subjectively believe that you can match the riding style of one of those guys in order to pick what bike thinks would be best for you.  Of course, the lap times listed could be heavily influenced by what bike the rider is currently putting the most time on, rides personally, etc.  

There have been lots of magazine tests over the years that have provided lap times by rider and bike.  Some of them seemed pretty consistent, some not so much.  The thing is, gelling with the bike is a very subjective thing.  The bike that you may turn your fastest lap time on may not be the same as someone else even if they have the exact same height, build, and pretty much the same speed and skill level.  

Trying to eliminate the subjectivity sounds good, but I don't think that it could ever be done very well.  

I basically watch all the different media outlet's videos to see what kind of general consensus may be out there... Then just buy whatever I'm feeling anyway.

Case in point is my 22 CRF450. 5th or 6th place every shootout? It's a great bike still. Just needed some suspension help, which I would do for any bike anyway.

Edit: I also nearly pulled the trigger on the Zook last year... Still kinda want one lol.

Just listen to Jody.

I never did understand why the KTM 350 wasnt included in the 450 shootouts, after all, which class is it eligible for?

My favorites seeing the bike they talk about and label the most "ready to race" not win 

Oh… those shootouts.

When will the media start calling these “showdowns?”

I've rode in the shootouts a few times for Vital and lap times don't really mean much because it's just a first impression of the bike.  We get an hour on each bike at 2 or 3 tracks (which includes suspension and mapping adjustments). 

Personally I'm riding at 80-85%, so I can make my laps repeatable or sometimes we hit a section a few times for the photographer who needs the content. 

I think if we were able to do long term testing, say 1 bike each day, for 6 days, spread over 2 weeks, the data of best lap time could be useful, but still questionable because of track prep from day to day.

Shootouts should just be taken with a grain of salt to help you narrow down the bike you're interested in. Then dig deeper into those models to make the best purchase decision. 

Bikes are so close, it’s just splitting hairs (except for Suzuki).

Pick your favorite color.  Pour gas. Twist throttle. 

Get the rider triangle/cockpit that suits your body the best, everything else can be changed.

I'm more interested in the long term reliability of a bike rather than outright speed and lap times.

That bike is for the Vet class - there are usually no displacement restrictions.

Well sure…shootouts are subjective.  You going to go out and test them yourself?  The whole point is to give you pros/cons and let you decide which fits what you’re looking for.  Of course it’s subjective.  What comparison isn’t ? Some like hotdogs, some like hamburgers.

What are they going to change the name to? They can't call them shootouts anymore. Feld even stopped 

A few things. 

Most of us do not have access to ride all 5 bikes. 

Lap times won't mean anything when a major part of this sport is tracks changing over the course of a single day. The prepped morning track won't be anything like the beat up POS at the end of the day. Are they renting a track or are they going to GH on a Thursday? 

I still like bike shootouts/tests to find out what the pros and cons of each machine is. For instance maybe a bike performs well but certain things are prone to breakage so the consumer would know they need to upgrade a part. Or maybe a bike is more difficult to work on. Almost every shootout I read will tell you the best bike they pick isn’t necessarily the best bike for you, but I think overall it’s the best complete package for most people. People seem to knock MXA pretty hard around here but there’s no denying they still offer the most info and testing when you’re looking for a new bike and want to know the ins and outs. 

Has anyone ever made an effort to identify maybe two or three different types of riding styles? 
 

maybe you’re a rear end steerer?

maybe you ride over the front?

maybe you’re a revver?

maybe you ride a lot at low rpm?

or perhaps bike shootouts that identify what terrain a certain bike is best at? 
tight technical, hardpack… or long fast sand?

If we as buyers can identify our riding styles, and identify the typical ground we ride on, then shootouts can best give advice on which bike suits who. Just a thought.

I would like to see a shootout that’s done on the east cost or Midwest. Where the track is beat up and rutted. Opinions on bikes based off of Highway like conditions do nothing for people who ride and race places similar to Ironman. Or amateur days after a national. 

The day MXA stops calling them "Shootouts" will be the last year I subscribe to MXA.     I can't see Weisel falling to that bullshit. 

I think OP has a valid point.   

Also, the shootouts are done on stock bikes.  Who keeps their bike stock?

I liked the MXA style. (Can’t read MXA anymore, as it became impossible to read the digital subscription….)

They seemed to have a lot of information that would be potentially useful for a prospective purchaser.

A “comparison” that doesn’t actually weigh the bikes, and run them on a dyno (hopefully on the same day/conditions) is second rate.

The comparisons where each rider gives some random musings on each bike are lazy, and less useful. “I was really looking forward to riding the new Xxxxx, and it didn’t disappoint. I felt at home right away, and found it the most user friendly bike in the test. The totally new ergos are great, and the redesigned engine is a step in the right direction.” All basically meaningless, and no use in helping a rider buy the bike that suits them best.

More useful is a writer who has collated the feedback from each rider, and distilled it into something factual: “All but one rider thought the Xxxxx steered the fastest, and most accurately, especially on tight tracks, and that rider called it a tie with the Yyyyy” The front brake felt weak on the Ssss, while the Kkkkk was the standout in this area. Etc

Exactly!

I still think MXA’s tests are the most thrustworthy…

But… put on tires of choise and mods for… $500? Just my 2€ cents