HELP WANTED, Sign of the times ?

mxb2
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mxb2 1/12/2022 6:04am
1/12/2022 6:04am
bite_the_curb wrote:
the cost of housing has more or less tripled since 1990

it isnt a labor shortage ,its an affordable housing shortage
Move or make more $,. Work 2 jobs. The society doesnt owe you shit, earn it.
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bite_the_curb 1/12/2022 6:12am
1/12/2022 6:12am
mxb2 wrote:
Move or make more $,. Work 2 jobs. The society doesnt owe you shit, earn it.
this attitude is why people are not showing up to work

not everyone can move or work 2 jobs you dolt
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mxb2
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mxb2 1/12/2022 7:28am
1/12/2022 7:28am
mxb2 wrote:
Move or make more $,. Work 2 jobs. The society doesnt owe you shit, earn it.
bite_the_curb wrote:
this attitude is why people are not showing up to work

not everyone can move or work 2 jobs you dolt
Yea. Lol. God forbid you earn it. So show up for work you got upset on a mx forum, then the juvenile name calling. You are the perfect example of gimme gimme gimme entitled society. Foh. Get. 3 jobs if needed. Nobody owes you shit.
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ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 1/12/2022 8:50am
1/12/2022 8:50am
mxb2 wrote:
Move or make more $,. Work 2 jobs. The society doesnt owe you shit, earn it.
bite_the_curb wrote:
this attitude is why people are not showing up to work

not everyone can move or work 2 jobs you dolt
You can't afford things so the solution is stop working? What am I missing here ?
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whyZ
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whyZ 1/12/2022 9:34am
1/12/2022 9:34am
I'm all for giving this younger generation of workers a reality slap, but there is some truth to what they say in that the state of entering their career cycle carry's its own set of obstacles, as they all do But it was mentioned at the beginning of this topic, that this generation see's these fields as career paths, "creator, streamers, influences, crypto, onlyfans, etc." Although they maybe, and it is proven that it can be a livelihood while it last. It's just goes back to what the crux of this discussion is, instant wealth.
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early
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early 1/12/2022 10:08am
1/12/2022 10:08am
whyZ wrote:
I'm all for giving this younger generation of workers a reality slap, but there is some truth to what they say in that the state of...
I'm all for giving this younger generation of workers a reality slap, but there is some truth to what they say in that the state of entering their career cycle carry's its own set of obstacles, as they all do But it was mentioned at the beginning of this topic, that this generation see's these fields as career paths, "creator, streamers, influences, crypto, onlyfans, etc." Although they maybe, and it is proven that it can be a livelihood while it last. It's just goes back to what the crux of this discussion is, instant wealth.
Every kid at Loretta thinks they are gonna a pro mx racer.

Used to be most black kids in the city thought they were gonna be in the NBA one day.

I spent alot of my late teens and early 20s playing in punk bands for 10 people.

Youth may be wasted on the young, but at least you tried and have the stories to tell.

If you hire an 18 year old kid to work do you want them to think if they work real hard they could be in your position one day? Or do they say to themselves fuck this asshole, he has a nice truck but if I lived my life as miserable as him I'd eat a gun.
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mx617
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mx617 1/12/2022 11:39am
1/12/2022 11:39am
mx617 wrote:
I think unemployment rate is under 5%? Do we just need more people in general?
prozach wrote:
Unemployment rate only counts people actively looking for work. It can go down even when a larger percent of the workforce isn't working.
True, not sure about the US stats but in Canada we are bang on labour participation from before, essentially no change in the number of available workers.
bite_the_curb 1/12/2022 12:18pm
1/12/2022 12:18pm
i have a corporate job and make a decent wage

alot of you dont seem to understand that the cost of living keeps going up and wages arent really outpacing it. no one wants to work for free and trading your labor is for fools in this sort of economic environment
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sumdood
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sumdood 1/12/2022 1:24pm
1/12/2022 1:24pm
bite_the_curb wrote:
i have a corporate job and make a decent wage alot of you dont seem to understand that the cost of living keeps going up and...
i have a corporate job and make a decent wage

alot of you dont seem to understand that the cost of living keeps going up and wages arent really outpacing it. no one wants to work for free and trading your labor is for fools in this sort of economic environment
So anyone who doesn't have "A corporate job" and earns money doing "physical labor" is a fool ? Whatever Nostradumbass. Maybe I'm wrong but you come across as one of those guys who sit's in an office all day, demands his hourly breaks and won't lift a finger above and beyond what's in your job description, and thinks they're somehow superior to a guy who might actually sweat and get dirty at work. Who you gonna call when your plumbing doesn't work, or your lights short out your jacuzzi isn't hot enough ? You know who you're gonna call ? Some dirty sweaty dude that probably is happier than you, makes more money than you, and isn't completely replaceable in a day for the next dime a dozen cheap suit wearing corporate clown. Prove me wrong.
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Chance1216
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Chance1216 1/12/2022 1:39pm
1/12/2022 1:39pm
bite_the_curb wrote:
i have a corporate job and make a decent wage alot of you dont seem to understand that the cost of living keeps going up and...
i have a corporate job and make a decent wage

alot of you dont seem to understand that the cost of living keeps going up and wages arent really outpacing it. no one wants to work for free and trading your labor is for fools in this sort of economic environment
sumdood wrote:
So anyone who doesn't have "A corporate job" and earns money doing "physical labor" is a fool ? Whatever Nostradumbass. Maybe I'm wrong but you come...
So anyone who doesn't have "A corporate job" and earns money doing "physical labor" is a fool ? Whatever Nostradumbass. Maybe I'm wrong but you come across as one of those guys who sit's in an office all day, demands his hourly breaks and won't lift a finger above and beyond what's in your job description, and thinks they're somehow superior to a guy who might actually sweat and get dirty at work. Who you gonna call when your plumbing doesn't work, or your lights short out your jacuzzi isn't hot enough ? You know who you're gonna call ? Some dirty sweaty dude that probably is happier than you, makes more money than you, and isn't completely replaceable in a day for the next dime a dozen cheap suit wearing corporate clown. Prove me wrong.
I’ll gladly come drop in a new water service for Timmy and, charge $3400. Up to 100’, including tracer wire, make the first connection under the house and, do the meter tie in. If the ditch isn’t dug, I’ll rent a mini, add another $1500. Oh wait, he’s worried about his perennials and doesn’t want his landscaping ruined with a ditch in the front yard? I’ll sub out to a company that does trenchless excavation and, tack on an additional $500 on top of their costs just for making the phone call.

But hey, I guess we know who played in the dirt with Tonka trucks as kids and, who is afraid to get their Crocs dirty.





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Flatliner
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Flatliner 1/12/2022 1:55pm
1/12/2022 1:55pm
bite_the_curb wrote:
i have a corporate job and make a decent wage alot of you dont seem to understand that the cost of living keeps going up and...
i have a corporate job and make a decent wage

alot of you dont seem to understand that the cost of living keeps going up and wages arent really outpacing it. no one wants to work for free and trading your labor is for fools in this sort of economic environment
So the alternative is to not work at all? Suck on the government handout nipple?

I blame instagram for a a lot of this, created an absolutely massive sense of entitlement.

Soft men make hard times, hard times make hard men, hard men make easy times... this is easy times, right now. Eventually its going to flip.
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-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 1/12/2022 2:13pm
1/12/2022 2:13pm
sumdood wrote:
So anyone who doesn't have "A corporate job" and earns money doing "physical labor" is a fool ? Whatever Nostradumbass. Maybe I'm wrong but you come...
So anyone who doesn't have "A corporate job" and earns money doing "physical labor" is a fool ? Whatever Nostradumbass. Maybe I'm wrong but you come across as one of those guys who sit's in an office all day, demands his hourly breaks and won't lift a finger above and beyond what's in your job description, and thinks they're somehow superior to a guy who might actually sweat and get dirty at work. Who you gonna call when your plumbing doesn't work, or your lights short out your jacuzzi isn't hot enough ? You know who you're gonna call ? Some dirty sweaty dude that probably is happier than you, makes more money than you, and isn't completely replaceable in a day for the next dime a dozen cheap suit wearing corporate clown. Prove me wrong.
I'll just say that without trades, he doesn't have an office to sit in.
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jeffro503
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jeffro503 1/12/2022 5:56pm
1/12/2022 5:56pm
FLmxer wrote:
And everyone wants extra special treatment now for their personal issues. I have been through so many kids. I literally pay 20 bucks an hour to...
And everyone wants extra special treatment now for their personal issues. I have been through so many kids. I literally pay 20 bucks an hour to chuck some produce in some habitats and play with turtles all day with zero supervision or stress and i'm the type of boss that if there is waves or a race and no show no worries. I never bitched once and really only care that the animals are good. But no, just slackers and losers that can't even stay at literally the easiest laid back job possible. I even order food every day on me. What ever you want. Its ridiculous. I don't even make any money its all for animal conservation. 100 percent out of my pocket. I have set it up to not really need anyone except occasional interns now but I lost hope in humans long ago. I like turtles.
Brother , your post actually interests me here. What exactly do you have going on , as far as what your outfit is doing? We've spoken before about all the bass fishing and so forth , and even though I'm huge into fishing / crabbing ect.... I'm a huge preservationist! Just curious here....
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bite_the_curb 1/12/2022 6:59pm
1/12/2022 6:59pm
Flatliner wrote:
So the alternative is to not work at all? Suck on the government handout nipple? I blame instagram for a a lot of this, created an...
So the alternative is to not work at all? Suck on the government handout nipple?

I blame instagram for a a lot of this, created an absolutely massive sense of entitlement.

Soft men make hard times, hard times make hard men, hard men make easy times... this is easy times, right now. Eventually its going to flip.
i think what people are doing now (quitting) is ideal

until there is some sort of societal contract between business,government and employees that works for *EVERYONE* expect more of this.
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agn5008
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agn5008 1/12/2022 7:05pm
1/12/2022 7:05pm
GeorgiePorgie wrote:
My buddy calls me up, pays me $25 an hour to be a construction laborer for him last week. Him and his dad are word of...
My buddy calls me up, pays me $25 an hour to be a construction laborer for him last week. Him and his dad are word of mouth custom home builders. He can’t get people to work as a laborer for $25 an hour. Insane. NO SKILL. LABORER. And willing to train a multitude of skills!

Demo work. Hold this. Find me that. Clean that up. Help carry these heavy cabinets. Sweep. Etc etc. damn good job!

Hey whatever I only see patients 3 days a week. I’ll be a laborer with them another few. It’s easy to make money right now working.
I have sooo many people tell me they can’t find a job. The first question I usually ask them is “can you pass a piss test?” They always lie and say of course. There are a few shitty factories around here that pay around $9 an hour and those are the factories that hire those who can’t pass a piss test. Then there are a few great factories/tool and die shops that are paying people to train as a welder, die setter, machinist etc and have starting rates around $25 an hour. I’ve had so many floor managers tell me they can’t get people to apply or pass a piss test for these great careers. It blows my mind that people just can’t stop using drugs til they at least get their foot in the door. Most places don’t drug test after someone’s hired unless you give them a reason to. $25 an hour in N. Central PA is damn good money. This ain’t LA where I’m sure that won’t get you far. The cost of living here is much lower and making that kind of money starting out you’d be doing quite well.

People don’t wanna work and people don’t wanna put forth the effort to get hired. I’ve heard it all and it’s so annoying. “I can’t get a ride to employment services” “I don’t have a baby sitter” “no one will hire me because of my last name” “I was sick and couldn’t make it down.” It’s so frustrating.
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profeshenal125 1/12/2022 7:09pm
1/12/2022 7:09pm
I think all jobs r important no buisness can succeed with out everyone doing there part. Like a manufacturer plant the line workers with back and wrist braces steadily working. To the warehouse workers hustling finish product out onto trucks . To the office worker handling billing to sales the management to the receptionist, etc. I deal with them everyday the warehouse has the most hustle of any buisness. Finished product a corvette engine to plastics truck load leaving there property , that’s how everyone there gets paid. My dispatcher is in Serbia he negotiates with a broker and me. Not to waste his or anyone else’s valuable time , I set a minimum per day rate- pay. If it’s below that don’t waste your time on it. Current ld a women from Pa. is the broker she called me twice yesterday. We go over details the Pu is outside of atl in the boonys. I ask is there parking ? She didn’t get an answer. I tell her I,ll go there and try to get lded tonight since there 24:7. If I can’t get lded I won’t text a huge explanation of why. I,m trying to keep text words below 150k a week, she laughs and says I wish I could do that. As far as parking I,ll make it work if they say no you hv to leave. Well I guess you,ll hv to make me then since I,m parked and not moving. There is not much time on the ld. She is at ease knowing her driver will b there. Shipping guys r great got lded lastnight. Apt was this morning 09.00 I left at 04.30. Send pics of ld details to 3 people. Tracking app details filled out. Plz stay off your phone while driving a few cars going in a straight line in Indiana totaled each other out and shut the rd down. There is ovr a billion dollars of freight on i65 . Buisness is being conducted if you can’t drive your car plz stay home. A lot of freight is jit just in time. We key up-cb who has a truck that’ll run 75 plus going to Chicago . A couple hands key up , where ya at . Then 3,4 of us run together , we might loose 1 do to his balls shinking. Haha. Where trying to keep this beautiful Country moving.
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Chance1216
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Chance1216 1/12/2022 7:46pm
1/12/2022 7:46pm Edited Date/Time 1/12/2022 8:39pm
Flatliner wrote:
So the alternative is to not work at all? Suck on the government handout nipple? I blame instagram for a a lot of this, created an...
So the alternative is to not work at all? Suck on the government handout nipple?

I blame instagram for a a lot of this, created an absolutely massive sense of entitlement.

Soft men make hard times, hard times make hard men, hard men make easy times... this is easy times, right now. Eventually its going to flip.
bite_the_curb wrote:
i think what people are doing now (quitting) is ideal until there is some sort of societal contract between business,government and employees that works for *EVERYONE*...
i think what people are doing now (quitting) is ideal

until there is some sort of societal contract between business,government and employees that works for *EVERYONE* expect more of this.
That’s hilarious. Just the entitled attitude employers want. How about a compromise? You do your job, you get paid. You suck at your job, you get fired. You excel at it, you get a raise. It really isn’t that hard. Or, is it?

You’d be the first guy I’d hand an air hammer to. Maybe a little laborious type of work would help with the delusional mindset.
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colintrax
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colintrax 1/12/2022 8:06pm
1/12/2022 8:06pm
bite_the_curb wrote:
i think what people are doing now (quitting) is ideal until there is some sort of societal contract between business,government and employees that works for *EVERYONE*...
i think what people are doing now (quitting) is ideal

until there is some sort of societal contract between business,government and employees that works for *EVERYONE* expect more of this.
You can go back to r/antiwork now and see how far yall get with that attitude.
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bite_the_curb 1/12/2022 8:11pm
1/12/2022 8:11pm
Chance1216 wrote:
That’s hilarious. Just the entitled attitude employers want. How about a compromise? You do your job, you get paid. You suck at your job, you get...
That’s hilarious. Just the entitled attitude employers want. How about a compromise? You do your job, you get paid. You suck at your job, you get fired. You excel at it, you get a raise. It really isn’t that hard. Or, is it?

You’d be the first guy I’d hand an air hammer to. Maybe a little laborious type of work would help with the delusional mindset.
i work at a fortune 500 company and i write code. i make good money and im doing okay

im not talking aout people like me, imm talking about all the people that have to work for small and medium sized businesses that still cant make ends meet
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Chance1216
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Chance1216 1/12/2022 8:25pm
1/12/2022 8:25pm
Chance1216 wrote:
That’s hilarious. Just the entitled attitude employers want. How about a compromise? You do your job, you get paid. You suck at your job, you get...
That’s hilarious. Just the entitled attitude employers want. How about a compromise? You do your job, you get paid. You suck at your job, you get fired. You excel at it, you get a raise. It really isn’t that hard. Or, is it?

You’d be the first guy I’d hand an air hammer to. Maybe a little laborious type of work would help with the delusional mindset.
bite_the_curb wrote:
i work at a fortune 500 company and i write code. i make good money and im doing okay im not talking aout people like me...
i work at a fortune 500 company and i write code. i make good money and im doing okay

im not talking aout people like me, imm talking about all the people that have to work for small and medium sized businesses that still cant make ends meet
So, quitting a job and, what going on welfare is the answer?
Companies should close their doors because they’re unable to pay $40 hr for an entry level job?

I made $8 an hour as a ditch digger when minimum wage was $6.50

Should McDonald’s pay $30hr if minimum wage is $15?

Everything you’re saying does nothing but, inflate the cost of living which is exactly what you’ve been complaining about.
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bite_the_curb 1/12/2022 8:29pm
1/12/2022 8:29pm
Chance1216 wrote:
So, quitting a job and, what going on welfare is the answer? Companies should close their doors because they’re unable to pay $40 hr for an...
So, quitting a job and, what going on welfare is the answer?
Companies should close their doors because they’re unable to pay $40 hr for an entry level job?

I made $8 an hour as a ditch digger when minimum wage was $6.50

Should McDonald’s pay $30hr if minimum wage is $15?

Everything you’re saying does nothing but, inflate the cost of living which is exactly what you’ve been complaining about.
moving to sound money would fix all of this

or ..fighting back against NIMBY boomers who legislate against affordable housing being built.
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Timo
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Timo 1/12/2022 8:38pm
1/12/2022 8:38pm
sumdood wrote:
Any of you guys employ people ? I need another guy to do / learn a pool route and minor repairs. Seems like pretty slim pickin's...
Any of you guys employ people ? I need another guy to do / learn a pool route and minor repairs. Seems like pretty slim pickin's around here (San Clemente) I see help wanted signs at businesses all over town and my friends in the trades are saying the same thing. "We have more work than we can do but can't find guys to work"
I get it that everyone wants an easy non labor intensive job that starts at 60+K a year, but someone has to do some physical work, we can't all be programmers. Where do you find those guys ?
TeamGreen wrote:
Yup. Since the checks went out in March of 2020, the labor pool has SHRUNK. Some folks ignore the obvious. Some folks make crazy statements in...
Yup. Since the checks went out in March of 2020, the labor pool has SHRUNK. Some folks ignore the obvious. Some folks make crazy statements in the face of facts; but, there's no getting away for it.

Bye the way, November was a "record month" for people...QUITTING THEIR JOBS.

That's jus' kinda funny.

ATKpilot99 wrote:
So what are all these people doing now almost 2 years later is what I don't understand.
A lot of them retired.
jeffro503
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jeffro503 1/12/2022 8:51pm
1/12/2022 8:51pm
bite_the_curb wrote:
i have a corporate job and make a decent wage alot of you dont seem to understand that the cost of living keeps going up and...
i have a corporate job and make a decent wage

alot of you dont seem to understand that the cost of living keeps going up and wages arent really outpacing it. no one wants to work for free and trading your labor is for fools in this sort of economic environment
Hmm? Weird , but I have a very intense labor type of job. I work for myself , pick and choose the jobs I want and charge $75.00/hr ( which is going up in June ). And I have friends that went to school for 4 years , that make 1/2 that , and have to punch a time card every day. To each his own I guess.
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bite_the_curb 1/12/2022 9:02pm
1/12/2022 9:02pm
jeffro503 wrote:
Hmm? Weird , but I have a very intense labor type of job. I work for myself , pick and choose the jobs I want and...
Hmm? Weird , but I have a very intense labor type of job. I work for myself , pick and choose the jobs I want and charge $75.00/hr ( which is going up in June ). And I have friends that went to school for 4 years , that make 1/2 that , and have to punch a time card every day. To each his own I guess.
maybe all the zoomers should just get jobs paying $75 an hour
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mxb2
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mxb2 1/12/2022 9:05pm
1/12/2022 9:05pm
Chance1216 wrote:
That’s hilarious. Just the entitled attitude employers want. How about a compromise? You do your job, you get paid. You suck at your job, you get...
That’s hilarious. Just the entitled attitude employers want. How about a compromise? You do your job, you get paid. You suck at your job, you get fired. You excel at it, you get a raise. It really isn’t that hard. Or, is it?

You’d be the first guy I’d hand an air hammer to. Maybe a little laborious type of work would help with the delusional mindset.
bite_the_curb wrote:
i work at a fortune 500 company and i write code. i make good money and im doing okay im not talking aout people like me...
i work at a fortune 500 company and i write code. i make good money and im doing okay

im not talking aout people like me, imm talking about all the people that have to work for small and medium sized businesses that still cant make ends meet
Chance1216 wrote:
So, quitting a job and, what going on welfare is the answer? Companies should close their doors because they’re unable to pay $40 hr for an...
So, quitting a job and, what going on welfare is the answer?
Companies should close their doors because they’re unable to pay $40 hr for an entry level job?

I made $8 an hour as a ditch digger when minimum wage was $6.50

Should McDonald’s pay $30hr if minimum wage is $15?

Everything you’re saying does nothing but, inflate the cost of living which is exactly what you’ve been complaining about.
Yep, and $15 an hr is to much to be paid hrly at mcdonalds. For what , to put cheese on. a burger. Lol ok .
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jeffro503
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jeffro503 1/12/2022 9:08pm
1/12/2022 9:08pm
Chance1216 wrote:
So, quitting a job and, what going on welfare is the answer? Companies should close their doors because they’re unable to pay $40 hr for an...
So, quitting a job and, what going on welfare is the answer?
Companies should close their doors because they’re unable to pay $40 hr for an entry level job?

I made $8 an hour as a ditch digger when minimum wage was $6.50

Should McDonald’s pay $30hr if minimum wage is $15?

Everything you’re saying does nothing but, inflate the cost of living which is exactly what you’ve been complaining about.
bite_the_curb wrote:
moving to sound money would fix all of this

or ..fighting back against NIMBY boomers who legislate against affordable housing being built.
Haha , this shit cracks me up.
This new generation wants everything right now.....forget working your way up the ladder. Fuck all those people who started years / decades ahead of you.... YOU deserve luxury right now!!

You literally don't have to say another word. I already know your age group , by just reading this shit. You , and people that think like you , are the very reason why this country will struggle. Entitled fucking pricks that think the world should be handed to them on a golden platter. So many of your stupid talking points make you think that you are some how more deserving than others.

I own a company.....and you would be the last person on the list. You fucking people suck .The ones that weren't lucky enough to weasel their way into a job like you.......get ready for tent city!! Meaning......pull your weight , or fuck off! Sorry for sounding like an asshole , but I can not stand entitled people. Anyone on planet earth that has had to bust their ass , and then sit here and read some dude telling us all how much more he deserves more , without doing shit to deserve it...... seriously , fuck off!
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jeffro503
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jeffro503 1/12/2022 9:10pm
1/12/2022 9:10pm
jeffro503 wrote:
Hmm? Weird , but I have a very intense labor type of job. I work for myself , pick and choose the jobs I want and...
Hmm? Weird , but I have a very intense labor type of job. I work for myself , pick and choose the jobs I want and charge $75.00/hr ( which is going up in June ). And I have friends that went to school for 4 years , that make 1/2 that , and have to punch a time card every day. To each his own I guess.
bite_the_curb wrote:
maybe all the zoomers should just get jobs paying $75 an hour
You can't " get it "......you earn it.
4
lostboy819 1/12/2022 9:23pm
1/12/2022 9:23pm
bite_the_curb wrote:
the cost of housing has more or less tripled since 1990

it isnt a labor shortage ,its an affordable housing shortage
mxb2 wrote:
Move or make more $,. Work 2 jobs. The society doesnt owe you shit, earn it.
Two jobs is getting off easy, I have had 3 and 4 jobs at one time. Don't have to do it anymore but crazy as it sounds some times I miss the struggle of having to be resourceful and doing what ever it takes to pay the bills and race. Smile
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Chance1216
Profile picture for user Chance1216
Posts
8953
Joined
4/1/2018
Location
Carson, CA, USA
Chance1216 1/12/2022 9:34pm
1/12/2022 9:34pm
mxb2 wrote:
Yep, and $15 an hr is to much to be paid hrly at mcdonalds. For what , to put cheese on. a burger. Lol ok .
Minimum wage is $14.49 in Washington. Apprenticeships start at double that in most cases. Yet, people will still complain that it’s too hard or, not enough. These are the same people that would complain the bag of gold they were just given, is too heavy. It drives me crazy the lack of motivation people have. People can’t do anything on their own anymore.
3
1
jeffro503
Profile picture for user jeffro503
Posts
27649
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7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR, USA
jeffro503 1/12/2022 9:37pm
1/12/2022 9:37pm
mxb2 wrote:
Yep, and $15 an hr is to much to be paid hrly at mcdonalds. For what , to put cheese on. a burger. Lol ok .
Chance1216 wrote:
Minimum wage is $14.49 in Washington. Apprenticeships start at double that in most cases. Yet, people will still complain that it’s too hard or, not enough...
Minimum wage is $14.49 in Washington. Apprenticeships start at double that in most cases. Yet, people will still complain that it’s too hard or, not enough. These are the same people that would complain the bag of gold they were just given, is too heavy. It drives me crazy the lack of motivation people have. People can’t do anything on their own anymore.
Exactly my point in my last reply D.
2

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