2023 KTM models?

Jeff_Brines
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Jeff_Brines 11/23/2021 4:51am
11/23/2021 4:51am Edited Date/Time 11/23/2021 4:53am
Interesting comments pertaining to TBI vs TPI. FWIW, the emissions thing is a big question mark. I can't help but think this is the exact same argument I heard pertaining to OEM two stroke turbo snowmobiles a handful of years ago (they'd never pass emissions or noise ordinance restrictions). This turned out to be false.

I know the EURO 4 & 5 stuff is pretty strict, but I also know engineers are pretty amazing at working through this sort of thing. With the right feedback loops, I could see a more complete burn with a TBI system, and if oil management is better they could very much pass emissions.

Are we positive the bikes are TBI not a TPI+TBI hybrid? (two injectors on the motor, one on the throttle body). Has anyone seen an EGT on the exhaust? (curious, this would help from a tuning perspective)

Moto companies are pretty notorious for trying to minimize skus if possible. Having two different fuel injection systems runs in the face of this.

Final thought, I'd be SHOCKED to see the bikes return to being pre-mix.

2
Richy
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Richy 11/23/2021 4:51am
11/23/2021 4:51am
Great find on the pics, looks interesting for sure.

And going back a page, I'm still with GingerSnapRacing, I know it isn't hugely complicated, I work almost solely with wiring and ECU's day in day out, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate and be fully on board with the simplicity of a pure lightweight racing two stroke with just a carb and kickstarter... my 350 is a constant worry, is the battery gonna die, is the starter gonna pack up, etc etc.

I'm sure it'll be sweet, hopefully it'll keep some two stroke character but bring traction and raw speed and whatnot more on par with four strokes, but that doesn't mean everyone is going to be stoked on the added complexity.
1
Toby259
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Toby259 11/23/2021 5:21am
11/23/2021 5:21am
makes one thing about potential weight gain on a 250SX (and 125/150)... I have ridden the 22 250SX and it so nice and light feeling makes it fun to ride and easy to throw around. On the 23 you lose the weight of the mechanical PV mechanism and replace it with a small servo motor and cable/actuator PV, mass is added higher in the engine. you lose the kickstart mechanism (can't see in pics, boot is in the way) and replace with battery and e-start motor and gears, then you add the FI components, ECU and fuel pump and wires. Could be an overall increase but also maybe with the mass reduction with new chassis, swingarm, body. I know... even if it was adding 5 pounds it would still be considered "light"
#434
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#434 11/23/2021 7:42am
11/23/2021 7:42am
Jeff_Brines wrote:
Interesting comments pertaining to TBI vs TPI. FWIW, the emissions thing is a big question mark. I can't help but think this is the exact same...
Interesting comments pertaining to TBI vs TPI. FWIW, the emissions thing is a big question mark. I can't help but think this is the exact same argument I heard pertaining to OEM two stroke turbo snowmobiles a handful of years ago (they'd never pass emissions or noise ordinance restrictions). This turned out to be false.

I know the EURO 4 & 5 stuff is pretty strict, but I also know engineers are pretty amazing at working through this sort of thing. With the right feedback loops, I could see a more complete burn with a TBI system, and if oil management is better they could very much pass emissions.

Are we positive the bikes are TBI not a TPI+TBI hybrid? (two injectors on the motor, one on the throttle body). Has anyone seen an EGT on the exhaust? (curious, this would help from a tuning perspective)

Moto companies are pretty notorious for trying to minimize skus if possible. Having two different fuel injection systems runs in the face of this.

Final thought, I'd be SHOCKED to see the bikes return to being pre-mix.

What’s so bad about running premix in the MX bikes?
The lubrication is better and you don’t have to carry a tank, pump, injector and a excess amount of oil around?
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ratonmacias
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ratonmacias 11/23/2021 10:41am
11/23/2021 10:41am
Jeff_Brines wrote:
Interesting comments pertaining to TBI vs TPI. FWIW, the emissions thing is a big question mark. I can't help but think this is the exact same...
Interesting comments pertaining to TBI vs TPI. FWIW, the emissions thing is a big question mark. I can't help but think this is the exact same argument I heard pertaining to OEM two stroke turbo snowmobiles a handful of years ago (they'd never pass emissions or noise ordinance restrictions). This turned out to be false.

I know the EURO 4 & 5 stuff is pretty strict, but I also know engineers are pretty amazing at working through this sort of thing. With the right feedback loops, I could see a more complete burn with a TBI system, and if oil management is better they could very much pass emissions.

Are we positive the bikes are TBI not a TPI+TBI hybrid? (two injectors on the motor, one on the throttle body). Has anyone seen an EGT on the exhaust? (curious, this would help from a tuning perspective)

Moto companies are pretty notorious for trying to minimize skus if possible. Having two different fuel injection systems runs in the face of this.

Final thought, I'd be SHOCKED to see the bikes return to being pre-mix.

#434 wrote:
What’s so bad about running premix in the MX bikes? The lubrication is better and you don’t have to carry a tank, pump, injector and a...
What’s so bad about running premix in the MX bikes?
The lubrication is better and you don’t have to carry a tank, pump, injector and a excess amount of oil around?
from what i have read theres issues right at startup with lack of lubrication on current tpi bikes
1
nskerb
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nskerb 11/23/2021 10:49am
11/23/2021 10:49am
Pac West Rider wrote:
Any Spy Pics Of The Husky?
In one of the videos previously posted there was the back end of a husky that did not look current. And there was a picture of a most recent Dakar Husky posted that had an interesting looking front fender. Compare that to the spy KTM shots and their current newest Dakar bike and they more or less match. I'd say based off that you can get a somewhat good idea of the new husky... looks wise at least.
1
#434
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#434 11/23/2021 3:01pm
11/23/2021 3:01pm
Pac West Rider wrote:
Any Spy Pics Of The Husky?
Fender looks the same, but the number plates look much nicer!


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swordfish
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swordfish 11/23/2021 3:05pm
11/23/2021 3:05pm
Jeff_Brines wrote:
Interesting comments pertaining to TBI vs TPI. FWIW, the emissions thing is a big question mark. I can't help but think this is the exact same...
Interesting comments pertaining to TBI vs TPI. FWIW, the emissions thing is a big question mark. I can't help but think this is the exact same argument I heard pertaining to OEM two stroke turbo snowmobiles a handful of years ago (they'd never pass emissions or noise ordinance restrictions). This turned out to be false.

I know the EURO 4 & 5 stuff is pretty strict, but I also know engineers are pretty amazing at working through this sort of thing. With the right feedback loops, I could see a more complete burn with a TBI system, and if oil management is better they could very much pass emissions.

Are we positive the bikes are TBI not a TPI+TBI hybrid? (two injectors on the motor, one on the throttle body). Has anyone seen an EGT on the exhaust? (curious, this would help from a tuning perspective)

Moto companies are pretty notorious for trying to minimize skus if possible. Having two different fuel injection systems runs in the face of this.

Final thought, I'd be SHOCKED to see the bikes return to being pre-mix.

#434 wrote:
What’s so bad about running premix in the MX bikes? The lubrication is better and you don’t have to carry a tank, pump, injector and a...
What’s so bad about running premix in the MX bikes?
The lubrication is better and you don’t have to carry a tank, pump, injector and a excess amount of oil around?
ratonmacias wrote:
from what i have read theres issues right at startup with lack of lubrication on current tpi bikes
No issue. Just let the head and cylinder warm up. KTM released an updated 103 map increasing oil 44% across the board.
2
Jeff_Brines
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Jeff_Brines 11/23/2021 3:48pm
11/23/2021 3:48pm
#434 wrote:
What’s so bad about running premix in the MX bikes? The lubrication is better and you don’t have to carry a tank, pump, injector and a...
What’s so bad about running premix in the MX bikes?
The lubrication is better and you don’t have to carry a tank, pump, injector and a excess amount of oil around?
ratonmacias wrote:
from what i have read theres issues right at startup with lack of lubrication on current tpi bikes
swordfish wrote:
No issue. Just let the head and cylinder warm up. KTM released an updated 103 map increasing oil 44% across the board.
Beat me to it. The 2020.5+ maps (or aftermarket) have 100% remedied this.

Also, I'm not so sure you can convince me the lubrication is better in a premix bike. While a poor map can cause a problem in an injected bike, it can also be done better than pre-mix by nature of how precise it is.This having been around a lot of oil injected two stroke snowmobiles pushing big HP numbers running WFO (and never losing a motor due to oiling issues).

I do dig how clever pre-mix is (simple!) but its hardly best in my book. Injection keeps stuff constant and makes for better control over your AFRs.
4
ratonmacias
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ratonmacias 11/23/2021 4:10pm
11/23/2021 4:10pm
#434 wrote:
What’s so bad about running premix in the MX bikes? The lubrication is better and you don’t have to carry a tank, pump, injector and a...
What’s so bad about running premix in the MX bikes?
The lubrication is better and you don’t have to carry a tank, pump, injector and a excess amount of oil around?
ratonmacias wrote:
from what i have read theres issues right at startup with lack of lubrication on current tpi bikes
swordfish wrote:
No issue. Just let the head and cylinder warm up. KTM released an updated 103 map increasing oil 44% across the board.
so there was an issue until 2020?
FGR01
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FGR01 11/23/2021 6:20pm
11/23/2021 6:20pm
ratonmacias wrote:
from what i have read theres issues right at startup with lack of lubrication on current tpi bikes
swordfish wrote:
No issue. Just let the head and cylinder warm up. KTM released an updated 103 map increasing oil 44% across the board.
ratonmacias wrote:
so there was an issue until 2020?
It's a lot more nuanced than these guys are getting into. Here's a more complete rundown.

No way in hell do I want to deal with any of this on an MX 125. What is supposed to be an inexpensive, simple, light, easy to work on bike. All this crap is trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

1
2strokenut
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2strokenut 11/23/2021 6:26pm
11/23/2021 6:26pm
ratonmacias wrote:
from what i have read theres issues right at startup with lack of lubrication on current tpi bikes
swordfish wrote:
No issue. Just let the head and cylinder warm up. KTM released an updated 103 map increasing oil 44% across the board.
Jeff_Brines wrote:
Beat me to it. The 2020.5+ maps (or aftermarket) have 100% remedied this. Also, I'm not so sure you can convince me the lubrication is better...
Beat me to it. The 2020.5+ maps (or aftermarket) have 100% remedied this.

Also, I'm not so sure you can convince me the lubrication is better in a premix bike. While a poor map can cause a problem in an injected bike, it can also be done better than pre-mix by nature of how precise it is.This having been around a lot of oil injected two stroke snowmobiles pushing big HP numbers running WFO (and never losing a motor due to oiling issues).

I do dig how clever pre-mix is (simple!) but its hardly best in my book. Injection keeps stuff constant and makes for better control over your AFRs.
Snowmobiles make more HP per CC, move more weight and do it at almost WOT the entire time. Yet, big brains on the forums think a small dirt bike engine running maybe WOT 2-15% of the time, making much less HP per CC somehow needs premix to survive. Jeff knows what kind of HP these new sleds make, especially all the turbos. These are all oil injected and an oil related failure is almost unhead of.

I can't wait until the SX models are injected and I'm here for all the salt :D
3
MikeID
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MikeID 11/23/2021 6:30pm
11/23/2021 6:30pm
Pirate421 wrote:
What does everyone think this means for the tpi bikes? Will they be regarded as oddball years and tank the resale? I know some people love...
What does everyone think this means for the tpi bikes? Will they be regarded as oddball years and tank the resale? I know some people love them and some hate them. Or is tbi another measure to meet standards and the tpi could be “better” somehow? Just curious where I’ll be left standing with my XC next year.
I’m looking at getting a 22 xc or xc-w and have wondered the same thing. You should ask that question on ktmtalk!

I think at the end of the day it’s how well TPI bikes are running. If they run great, the market will reflect that. The typical things like age and condition would still be the main determinant of resale value.
1
Pirate421
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Pirate421 11/23/2021 7:01pm
11/23/2021 7:01pm
Pirate421 wrote:
What does everyone think this means for the tpi bikes? Will they be regarded as oddball years and tank the resale? I know some people love...
What does everyone think this means for the tpi bikes? Will they be regarded as oddball years and tank the resale? I know some people love them and some hate them. Or is tbi another measure to meet standards and the tpi could be “better” somehow? Just curious where I’ll be left standing with my XC next year.
MikeID wrote:
I’m looking at getting a 22 xc or xc-w and have wondered the same thing. You should ask that question on ktmtalk! I think at the...
I’m looking at getting a 22 xc or xc-w and have wondered the same thing. You should ask that question on ktmtalk!

I think at the end of the day it’s how well TPI bikes are running. If they run great, the market will reflect that. The typical things like age and condition would still be the main determinant of resale value.
Agree I still own a tpi regardless so I’ll hang on to it for awhile yet. I’m running a coober Ecu and have no regrets with it. I also don’t ride enough to warrant me needing the latest and greatest, my bike does what I ask it. This is just seems like a huge swing and don’t want these $10k bikes to be looked at like the old rmz/kxf hybrid disaster.
2
spimx
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spimx 11/23/2021 7:26pm
11/23/2021 7:26pm
I hope the gas gas 250 2t still comes with kickstart
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1
suspensionguy 11/23/2021 7:55pm
11/23/2021 7:55pm
swordfish wrote:
No issue. Just let the head and cylinder warm up. KTM released an updated 103 map increasing oil 44% across the board.
Jeff_Brines wrote:
Beat me to it. The 2020.5+ maps (or aftermarket) have 100% remedied this. Also, I'm not so sure you can convince me the lubrication is better...
Beat me to it. The 2020.5+ maps (or aftermarket) have 100% remedied this.

Also, I'm not so sure you can convince me the lubrication is better in a premix bike. While a poor map can cause a problem in an injected bike, it can also be done better than pre-mix by nature of how precise it is.This having been around a lot of oil injected two stroke snowmobiles pushing big HP numbers running WFO (and never losing a motor due to oiling issues).

I do dig how clever pre-mix is (simple!) but its hardly best in my book. Injection keeps stuff constant and makes for better control over your AFRs.
2strokenut wrote:
Snowmobiles make more HP per CC, move more weight and do it at almost WOT the entire time. Yet, big brains on the forums think a...
Snowmobiles make more HP per CC, move more weight and do it at almost WOT the entire time. Yet, big brains on the forums think a small dirt bike engine running maybe WOT 2-15% of the time, making much less HP per CC somehow needs premix to survive. Jeff knows what kind of HP these new sleds make, especially all the turbos. These are all oil injected and an oil related failure is almost unhead of.

I can't wait until the SX models are injected and I'm here for all the salt :D
True but snowmobiles are time bombs, I used to sled way more then I ride but trying to resist and focus on Mx year round. Anyway, in the sled world 3,000 miles is about the life span of a new mtn sled, trail sleds, who cares.. I can not tell you how many cranks I’ve had let go, piston skirts break and blow out the bottom of cases, oil pump do fail, not often but they do, I’ve experienced it, carnage. Pto ends snap off, main bearings let go and absolutely tear your cases up. Sure, for most guys they are reliable but the average snowmobiler doesn’t ride much and the skill sets are generally low. Guys who actually ride, always have more then one machine because you WILL have a mechanical and sitting at home when the snow is good sucks. I typically had 3 at any given time and there was still times when I was down waiting on parts. If you are in the turbo game, running 10 or more lbs of boost, you see some cool shit break. I’m sure my crew will have many late nights getting dead machines out of the backcountry this winter and none of us ride anything older then 2017-2018.
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ratonmacias
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ratonmacias 11/23/2021 8:46pm
11/23/2021 8:46pm
Regardless a 250 tpi bike runs awful compared to a carbed 250.

Will wait and see on the tbi.

For now my yamaha 250x and my yz 125 will give me plenty of good times
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2strokenut
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2strokenut 11/23/2021 8:52pm
11/23/2021 8:52pm
Jeff_Brines wrote:
Beat me to it. The 2020.5+ maps (or aftermarket) have 100% remedied this. Also, I'm not so sure you can convince me the lubrication is better...
Beat me to it. The 2020.5+ maps (or aftermarket) have 100% remedied this.

Also, I'm not so sure you can convince me the lubrication is better in a premix bike. While a poor map can cause a problem in an injected bike, it can also be done better than pre-mix by nature of how precise it is.This having been around a lot of oil injected two stroke snowmobiles pushing big HP numbers running WFO (and never losing a motor due to oiling issues).

I do dig how clever pre-mix is (simple!) but its hardly best in my book. Injection keeps stuff constant and makes for better control over your AFRs.
2strokenut wrote:
Snowmobiles make more HP per CC, move more weight and do it at almost WOT the entire time. Yet, big brains on the forums think a...
Snowmobiles make more HP per CC, move more weight and do it at almost WOT the entire time. Yet, big brains on the forums think a small dirt bike engine running maybe WOT 2-15% of the time, making much less HP per CC somehow needs premix to survive. Jeff knows what kind of HP these new sleds make, especially all the turbos. These are all oil injected and an oil related failure is almost unhead of.

I can't wait until the SX models are injected and I'm here for all the salt :D
suspensionguy wrote:
True but snowmobiles are time bombs, I used to sled way more then I ride but trying to resist and focus on Mx year round. Anyway...
True but snowmobiles are time bombs, I used to sled way more then I ride but trying to resist and focus on Mx year round. Anyway, in the sled world 3,000 miles is about the life span of a new mtn sled, trail sleds, who cares.. I can not tell you how many cranks I’ve had let go, piston skirts break and blow out the bottom of cases, oil pump do fail, not often but they do, I’ve experienced it, carnage. Pto ends snap off, main bearings let go and absolutely tear your cases up. Sure, for most guys they are reliable but the average snowmobiler doesn’t ride much and the skill sets are generally low. Guys who actually ride, always have more then one machine because you WILL have a mechanical and sitting at home when the snow is good sucks. I typically had 3 at any given time and there was still times when I was down waiting on parts. If you are in the turbo game, running 10 or more lbs of boost, you see some cool shit break. I’m sure my crew will have many late nights getting dead machines out of the backcountry this winter and none of us ride anything older then 2017-2018.
What does this have to do with oil failure? Those snowmobiles aren't blowing up because they aren't running enough oil...
2
2strokenut
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2strokenut 11/23/2021 8:56pm
11/23/2021 8:56pm
ratonmacias wrote:
Regardless a 250 tpi bike runs awful compared to a carbed 250. Will wait and see on the tbi. For now my yamaha 250x and my...
Regardless a 250 tpi bike runs awful compared to a carbed 250.

Will wait and see on the tbi.

For now my yamaha 250x and my yz 125 will give me plenty of good times
Runs awful says who?

"owns yz250 and yz125"

Oh
10
ratonmacias
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ratonmacias 11/23/2021 9:04pm
11/23/2021 9:04pm
I say so and to me it runs like a 4 stroke.

I have tried a 250 sx and a sherco 250 and loved them.

I m not a yamaha fanboy i always rode cr s abd then rm s
#434
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#434 11/23/2021 11:08pm
11/23/2021 11:08pm
Ok, so:
- fast snowmobiles are time bombs
- premix is crude, simple and light but works fine
- oil injection is more user friendly and economic but comes with a bag of extra parts

However, how does a recent TPI (or relocated to TBI) compare to a well jetted EXC? Where are the differences? Some of you guys must have ridden both?
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swordfish
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swordfish 11/24/2021 4:03am
11/24/2021 4:03am
swordfish wrote:
No issue. Just let the head and cylinder warm up. KTM released an updated 103 map increasing oil 44% across the board.
ratonmacias wrote:
so there was an issue until 2020?
FGR01 wrote:
It's a lot more nuanced than these guys are getting into. Here's a more complete rundown. No way in hell do I want to deal with...
It's a lot more nuanced than these guys are getting into. Here's a more complete rundown.

No way in hell do I want to deal with any of this on an MX 125. What is supposed to be an inexpensive, simple, light, easy to work on bike. All this crap is trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

He’s just another YouTube Expert. Barry doesn’t even own a TPi bike.
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swordfish
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swordfish 11/24/2021 4:04am
11/24/2021 4:04am
Jeff_Brines wrote:
Beat me to it. The 2020.5+ maps (or aftermarket) have 100% remedied this. Also, I'm not so sure you can convince me the lubrication is better...
Beat me to it. The 2020.5+ maps (or aftermarket) have 100% remedied this.

Also, I'm not so sure you can convince me the lubrication is better in a premix bike. While a poor map can cause a problem in an injected bike, it can also be done better than pre-mix by nature of how precise it is.This having been around a lot of oil injected two stroke snowmobiles pushing big HP numbers running WFO (and never losing a motor due to oiling issues).

I do dig how clever pre-mix is (simple!) but its hardly best in my book. Injection keeps stuff constant and makes for better control over your AFRs.
2strokenut wrote:
Snowmobiles make more HP per CC, move more weight and do it at almost WOT the entire time. Yet, big brains on the forums think a...
Snowmobiles make more HP per CC, move more weight and do it at almost WOT the entire time. Yet, big brains on the forums think a small dirt bike engine running maybe WOT 2-15% of the time, making much less HP per CC somehow needs premix to survive. Jeff knows what kind of HP these new sleds make, especially all the turbos. These are all oil injected and an oil related failure is almost unhead of.

I can't wait until the SX models are injected and I'm here for all the salt :D
suspensionguy wrote:
True but snowmobiles are time bombs, I used to sled way more then I ride but trying to resist and focus on Mx year round. Anyway...
True but snowmobiles are time bombs, I used to sled way more then I ride but trying to resist and focus on Mx year round. Anyway, in the sled world 3,000 miles is about the life span of a new mtn sled, trail sleds, who cares.. I can not tell you how many cranks I’ve had let go, piston skirts break and blow out the bottom of cases, oil pump do fail, not often but they do, I’ve experienced it, carnage. Pto ends snap off, main bearings let go and absolutely tear your cases up. Sure, for most guys they are reliable but the average snowmobiler doesn’t ride much and the skill sets are generally low. Guys who actually ride, always have more then one machine because you WILL have a mechanical and sitting at home when the snow is good sucks. I typically had 3 at any given time and there was still times when I was down waiting on parts. If you are in the turbo game, running 10 or more lbs of boost, you see some cool shit break. I’m sure my crew will have many late nights getting dead machines out of the backcountry this winter and none of us ride anything older then 2017-2018.
Stop buying Polaris sleds😂🤦‍♂️
1
swordfish
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swordfish 11/24/2021 4:05am
11/24/2021 4:05am
ratonmacias wrote:
Regardless a 250 tpi bike runs awful compared to a carbed 250. Will wait and see on the tbi. For now my yamaha 250x and my...
Regardless a 250 tpi bike runs awful compared to a carbed 250.

Will wait and see on the tbi.

For now my yamaha 250x and my yz 125 will give me plenty of good times
😂😂😂😂yeah ok.
3
ratonmacias
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ratonmacias 11/24/2021 5:41am
11/24/2021 5:41am
Why is ktm trying tbi? Why does a 150 te makes 30 hp at the rear wheel? Why are people getting koobers? Why are injectors being relocated?
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soggy
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soggy 11/24/2021 6:08am
11/24/2021 6:08am
ratonmacias wrote:
Why is ktm trying tbi? Why does a 150 te makes 30 hp at the rear wheel? Why are people getting koobers? Why are injectors being...
Why is ktm trying tbi? Why does a 150 te makes 30 hp at the rear wheel? Why are people getting koobers? Why are injectors being relocated?
Why do people buy Ecu’s for there 4 stroke? Why do people add a second injector to there 250 4st??
3
FGR01
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10/1/2006
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AZ US
Fantasy
1201st
FGR01 11/24/2021 6:17am
11/24/2021 6:17am
ratonmacias wrote:
so there was an issue until 2020?
FGR01 wrote:
It's a lot more nuanced than these guys are getting into. Here's a more complete rundown. No way in hell do I want to deal with...
It's a lot more nuanced than these guys are getting into. Here's a more complete rundown.

No way in hell do I want to deal with any of this on an MX 125. What is supposed to be an inexpensive, simple, light, easy to work on bike. All this crap is trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

swordfish wrote:
He’s just another YouTube Expert. Barry doesn’t even own a TPi bike.
So you categorically refute every technical point he made?

The points are valid whether or not you like the guy. Motocross 2-strokes don't need this crap. It defeats the point.
5
Broseph
Profile picture for user Broseph
Posts
1187
Joined
4/28/2018
Location
Stevenson, WA US
Broseph 11/24/2021 6:29am
11/24/2021 6:29am
FGR01 wrote:
So you categorically refute every technical point he made? The points are valid whether or not you like the guy. Motocross 2-strokes don't need this crap...
So you categorically refute every technical point he made?

The points are valid whether or not you like the guy. Motocross 2-strokes don't need this crap. It defeats the point.
One too many maple leafs in his Ckoffee.
1
soggy
Profile picture for user soggy
Posts
8482
Joined
12/3/2018
Location
UT US
soggy 11/24/2021 6:30am
11/24/2021 6:30am
FGR01 wrote:
It's a lot more nuanced than these guys are getting into. Here's a more complete rundown. No way in hell do I want to deal with...
It's a lot more nuanced than these guys are getting into. Here's a more complete rundown.

No way in hell do I want to deal with any of this on an MX 125. What is supposed to be an inexpensive, simple, light, easy to work on bike. All this crap is trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

swordfish wrote:
He’s just another YouTube Expert. Barry doesn’t even own a TPi bike.
FGR01 wrote:
So you categorically refute every technical point he made? The points are valid whether or not you like the guy. Motocross 2-strokes don't need this crap...
So you categorically refute every technical point he made?

The points are valid whether or not you like the guy. Motocross 2-strokes don't need this crap. It defeats the point.
The point is to ride and have fun tbi does not ruin this.
2

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