Why are dirtbikes titled?

yz133rider
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11/8/2020 3:58pm Edited Date/Time 11/8/2020 3:59pm
kb228 wrote:
Titles prove ownership
So would a receipt. And why would I need a title to “prove ownership” of a dirtbike and not a mountain bike, tv, lawn mower, compressor, driveway pavers, or any number of other items not intended for high way use.
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ctbale
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11/8/2020 4:13pm
So if you only ride on local tracks and private land, are there any states that require that machine to be titled? And if any do, any of those states require re-ocurring registrations?

(Might move someday and want to know which states NOT to consider...lol)
kb228
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11/8/2020 6:26pm
kb228 wrote:
Titles prove ownership
yz133rider wrote:
So would a receipt. And why would I need a title to “prove ownership” of a dirtbike and not a mountain bike, tv, lawn mower, compressor...
So would a receipt. And why would I need a title to “prove ownership” of a dirtbike and not a mountain bike, tv, lawn mower, compressor, driveway pavers, or any number of other items not intended for high way use.
Because theyre motorized vehicles that “can” be driven on the road and cost way more than any of the items you listed. If your bike is stolen youre screwed if you cant prove ownership. Not a big deal if your $400 lawn mower is stolen. Its a big deal if your $10,000 motorcycle is stolen
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yz133rider
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11/8/2020 6:33pm
kb228 wrote:
Titles prove ownership
yz133rider wrote:
So would a receipt. And why would I need a title to “prove ownership” of a dirtbike and not a mountain bike, tv, lawn mower, compressor...
So would a receipt. And why would I need a title to “prove ownership” of a dirtbike and not a mountain bike, tv, lawn mower, compressor, driveway pavers, or any number of other items not intended for high way use.
kb228 wrote:
Because theyre motorized vehicles that “can” be driven on the road and cost way more than any of the items you listed. If your bike is...
Because theyre motorized vehicles that “can” be driven on the road and cost way more than any of the items you listed. If your bike is stolen youre screwed if you cant prove ownership. Not a big deal if your $400 lawn mower is stolen. Its a big deal if your $10,000 motorcycle is stolen
Mountain bikes can cost more than a dirtbike and plenty of lawn mowers/tractors cost way more than a dirtbike...

The Shop

lumpy790
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11/8/2020 6:41pm
If you buy and finance you have to have a state title
davermz450
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11/8/2020 7:27pm
I moved from CA to KY and bought a rm 125 right when I got there. No title. I bought and sold probably 6 or so bikes in 4.5 years and not a single person brought up a title. Best way someone described it to me was " We treat'em like lawn mowers".

It doesnt make sense, moto guys ride on private property (for the most part) and off road guys do used public land but MTN bikers or horse people do too but they dont pay taxes so why should we have to pay more?!?!
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ctbale
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11/8/2020 8:08pm Edited Date/Time 11/8/2020 8:11pm
lumpy790 wrote:
If you buy and finance you have to have a state title
Where did you find that information? My buddy financed a $12,000 john deere, no title. Polaris lets you finance, no title.

Here, I will answer the op's question:.

Because the state you live in wants more money.

Come on, if your reply is that it proves ownership, yea it does, but so does an MSO or a sales receipt, bill of sale or possession is 90%>>>>>> bla bla bla
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Bramlett321
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11/9/2020 5:22am
I couldn't agree more....I paid off my 450 and I'm selling it right? Well I call the Texas DMV, do what they ask and have to drive two hours to get the title because it can't be done in Texarkana. Off to Longview I go to get the title for this fella who is excited to get it but his bank has to see the front/back of the title. I get there a the lady is like..."I can't give you a title this bike has never been titled". You have to pay $15 to bond the title and it'll be sent to you...something like that. $15 is not much but I'm only one sap paying not the entire state so I'm sure with all the "necessary" fees we're charged they're making a mint. A slave to the system I will be I guess !!
11/9/2020 5:38am
kb228 wrote:
Titles prove ownership
So does a certificate origin with notarized transfer signatures on the back of it....
WFO
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11/9/2020 5:39am
lumpy790 wrote:
If you buy and finance you have to have a state title
Nope.....not true at all....
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kb228
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11/9/2020 6:02am
kb228 wrote:
Titles prove ownership
So does a certificate origin with notarized transfer signatures on the back of it....
Here you can buy a titled bike and not pay taxes. If you want to, let the seller sign off on the title and just keep the title. You dont have to go to the title office and transfer it. Many people simply hand the title over and never transfer it. The persons name on the title could be 10 owners ago. Some people “fudge” the purchase amount on the title and pay almost no taxes. Theres many dishonest ways of getting around it if youre that against it.

If you want to be able to prove ownership or report the bike stolen the title needs to be in your name or else youd be able to report everyone elses bikes stolen. If you want to register it to ride at a state park you need a title.

And again. Theres no difference in a dirtbike and a bike you ride on the road aside from some lights. Its a motorcycle. You title your zx10r and you title your yz450 because theyre both motorcycles.

Theres many different reasons theyre titled. Taxes are one reason but theres other reasons too.
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rohleder644
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11/9/2020 6:09am
kb228 wrote:
Here you can buy a titled bike and not pay taxes. If you want to, let the seller sign off on the title and just keep...
Here you can buy a titled bike and not pay taxes. If you want to, let the seller sign off on the title and just keep the title. You dont have to go to the title office and transfer it. Many people simply hand the title over and never transfer it. The persons name on the title could be 10 owners ago. Some people “fudge” the purchase amount on the title and pay almost no taxes. Theres many dishonest ways of getting around it if youre that against it.

If you want to be able to prove ownership or report the bike stolen the title needs to be in your name or else youd be able to report everyone elses bikes stolen. If you want to register it to ride at a state park you need a title.

And again. Theres no difference in a dirtbike and a bike you ride on the road aside from some lights. Its a motorcycle. You title your zx10r and you title your yz450 because theyre both motorcycles.

Theres many different reasons theyre titled. Taxes are one reason but theres other reasons too.
And yet, you’ve listed literally zero of those reasons besides taxation.
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STLSharky
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11/9/2020 6:11am
yz133rider wrote:
Let me preface this - I think taxation is out of control. I think that since we have an income tax which leaves all of our...
Let me preface this - I think taxation is out of control.
I think that since we have an income tax which leaves all of our money in our pockets already taxed, additional taxes of any kind seem absolutely outrageous to me.

So title fees, registration, sales tax, gas guzzler tax, fuel tax, property tax, school tax, on and on.


anyway the main question I have is why do dirtbikes need to be titled? Buy a new Mx bike from the dealer? Well, there’s an additional 500 or so in sales tax and titling fees. Sell that same bike a year later used, the next poor schmuck is paying those same fees again on the same bike. The gift that keeps on giving.

You can’t be charged with the same crime twice , but the same item sure can be taxed many times and in many different ways. And again you’re using taxed money to buy the items, then charged tax on the items; and then various fees such as titling fees which are just fancy ways of wording a tax with a piece of paper attached to it.

Are mountain bikes titled? Some of them cost more than a 450? Why not, no engines? Well are lawn mowers titled? No? Some of them cost 2x a 450?

Just seems odd to me! Anyone have insight besides the tax man wanting his cut.

Dirtbikes aren’t intended for the road in any way, except of course for dual sport style bikes, but those are completely separate from Mx bikes.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ FOR THE STATE
rallendude
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11/9/2020 6:55am
Alabama does not issue titles for dirt bikes unless you are converting it for street use.

It has become a huge pain in the rear selling bikes through Facebook with all the folks from out of state asking, "does it have a title?" I don't hardly even answer the question anymore.
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kb228
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11/9/2020 7:43am
kb228 wrote:
Here you can buy a titled bike and not pay taxes. If you want to, let the seller sign off on the title and just keep...
Here you can buy a titled bike and not pay taxes. If you want to, let the seller sign off on the title and just keep the title. You dont have to go to the title office and transfer it. Many people simply hand the title over and never transfer it. The persons name on the title could be 10 owners ago. Some people “fudge” the purchase amount on the title and pay almost no taxes. Theres many dishonest ways of getting around it if youre that against it.

If you want to be able to prove ownership or report the bike stolen the title needs to be in your name or else youd be able to report everyone elses bikes stolen. If you want to register it to ride at a state park you need a title.

And again. Theres no difference in a dirtbike and a bike you ride on the road aside from some lights. Its a motorcycle. You title your zx10r and you title your yz450 because theyre both motorcycles.

Theres many different reasons theyre titled. Taxes are one reason but theres other reasons too.
And yet, you’ve listed literally zero of those reasons besides taxation.
Maybe you should read my entire post. Theyre clearly listed.
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yz133rider
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11/9/2020 7:51am Edited Date/Time 11/9/2020 7:55am
kb228 wrote:
Here you can buy a titled bike and not pay taxes. If you want to, let the seller sign off on the title and just keep...
Here you can buy a titled bike and not pay taxes. If you want to, let the seller sign off on the title and just keep the title. You dont have to go to the title office and transfer it. Many people simply hand the title over and never transfer it. The persons name on the title could be 10 owners ago. Some people “fudge” the purchase amount on the title and pay almost no taxes. Theres many dishonest ways of getting around it if youre that against it.

If you want to be able to prove ownership or report the bike stolen the title needs to be in your name or else youd be able to report everyone elses bikes stolen. If you want to register it to ride at a state park you need a title.

And again. Theres no difference in a dirtbike and a bike you ride on the road aside from some lights. Its a motorcycle. You title your zx10r and you title your yz450 because theyre both motorcycles.

Theres many different reasons theyre titled. Taxes are one reason but theres other reasons too.
And yet, you’ve listed literally zero of those reasons besides taxation.
kb228 wrote:
Maybe you should read my entire post. Theyre clearly listed.
You can report your tv stolen without needing a title, you can prove ownership of a tv or lawnmower without a title,

And needing a title to “register” it to ride a state land. Register is just a fancy word for tax, so they’re making it a prerequisite to pay the title fees (a tax with tax on top) in order to register it (another tax) to ride public land (funded by tax dollars)

Good lord, this is kinda nutty!
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kb228
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11/9/2020 8:24am
And yet, you’ve listed literally zero of those reasons besides taxation.
kb228 wrote:
Maybe you should read my entire post. Theyre clearly listed.
yz133rider wrote:
You can report your tv stolen without needing a title, you can prove ownership of a tv or lawnmower without a title, And needing a title...
You can report your tv stolen without needing a title, you can prove ownership of a tv or lawnmower without a title,

And needing a title to “register” it to ride a state land. Register is just a fancy word for tax, so they’re making it a prerequisite to pay the title fees (a tax with tax on top) in order to register it (another tax) to ride public land (funded by tax dollars)

Good lord, this is kinda nutty!
Youre screwed if your tv is stolen. If you cant prove its yours then theres nothing they can do. Ive been down that road before. Sheriff’s deputy told me if i dont have a receipt with the serial# i cant take back the tv even though i led them to the house where it was.

Theres no stolen tv or lawnmower tracking like there is with vehicle VINs. And if you need a title to mark it as stolen. Nobody is checking VINs on a mower theyre buying on fb marketplace. If it cuts grass who cares?

If you lose the paperwork for your bike youre screwed. If its titled you can at least get another copy from the title office.

You have to prove everything and a bill of sale doesnt prove anything. Theyre easy to forge. Imagine i stole your car and just wrote a bill of sale to myself to make it legit. Whos going to know better when i sell the car? Theres no tracing at all without a title.

Yes its a money grab but theres good things about it that a bill of sale cant provide.

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rohleder644
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11/9/2020 9:06am
kb228 wrote:
Youre screwed if your tv is stolen. If you cant prove its yours then theres nothing they can do. Ive been down that road before. Sheriff’s...
Youre screwed if your tv is stolen. If you cant prove its yours then theres nothing they can do. Ive been down that road before. Sheriff’s deputy told me if i dont have a receipt with the serial# i cant take back the tv even though i led them to the house where it was.

Theres no stolen tv or lawnmower tracking like there is with vehicle VINs. And if you need a title to mark it as stolen. Nobody is checking VINs on a mower theyre buying on fb marketplace. If it cuts grass who cares?

If you lose the paperwork for your bike youre screwed. If its titled you can at least get another copy from the title office.

You have to prove everything and a bill of sale doesnt prove anything. Theyre easy to forge. Imagine i stole your car and just wrote a bill of sale to myself to make it legit. Whos going to know better when i sell the car? Theres no tracing at all without a title.

Yes its a money grab but theres good things about it that a bill of sale cant provide.

We title bikes to have a government backed up receipt?

I just had one of my tool trailers stolen. A titled, registered, plated trailer. It had about 45 thousand dollars in un-titled tools inside. Ask me how much that title helped me. If the trailer or tools were recovered, I’ve got receipts and serial numbers that would allow me to claim the tools.

Certainly seems like there’s less “take my money from me” ways of accomplishing the one reason you’ve given for having a titled bike.
dcg141
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11/9/2020 9:55am Edited Date/Time 11/9/2020 10:01am
Where are you buying bicycles lawn mowers and tv's and not paying sales tax? You would have to pay local sales tax from the state its sold in unless you live in a no sales tax state.
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gharmon
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11/9/2020 10:10am
rallendude wrote:
Alabama does not issue titles for dirt bikes unless you are converting it for street use. It has become a huge pain in the rear selling...
Alabama does not issue titles for dirt bikes unless you are converting it for street use.

It has become a huge pain in the rear selling bikes through Facebook with all the folks from out of state asking, "does it have a title?" I don't hardly even answer the question anymore.
They come with certificate or origins though right? I live on the Alabama side of the GA/Al line and work near Atlanta. All my current bikes except one have a certificate of origin. No sure if they are Ga or Al though. I have two ktm 65's a Husky 85, a crf250, yz250, crf 50 and klx110.
The 110 is the only one without a certificate of origin.
I didn't go transfer them though and all are insured through state farm.
FGR01
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Fantasy
11/9/2020 10:21am
ctbale wrote:
So if you only ride on local tracks and private land, are there any states that require that machine to be titled? And if any do...
So if you only ride on local tracks and private land, are there any states that require that machine to be titled? And if any do, any of those states require re-ocurring registrations?

(Might move someday and want to know which states NOT to consider...lol)
Yes... In Arizona you are required to title dirt bikes. The dealer will not allow you to leave with just the MSO/MCO and bill of sale if you are an AZ resident. If you are out of state they will and then it's on you to do whatever you are going to do in your home state.

This is pretty hard and fast here. So much so, that it is basically impossible to sell a used bike without a title because everyone suspects it is stolen. I routinely come across guys who went to other states and bought a bike to avoid paying taxes and then they are up shit's creek trying to sell it in AZ a few years later because no one will touch it without a title. There is a bonded/lost title process but why am I, as a buyer, going to go through that PITA when I can just as easily get a bike that already has a title?

On the bright side, it is very easy to make any dirt bike street legal in AZ and we don't have to renew our driver license until we turn 65. So it's not all bad news.
dcg141
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11/9/2020 10:36am Edited Date/Time 11/10/2020 5:27am
gharmon wrote:
They come with certificate or origins though right? I live on the Alabama side of the GA/Al line and work near Atlanta. All my current bikes...
They come with certificate or origins though right? I live on the Alabama side of the GA/Al line and work near Atlanta. All my current bikes except one have a certificate of origin. No sure if they are Ga or Al though. I have two ktm 65's a Husky 85, a crf250, yz250, crf 50 and klx110.
The 110 is the only one without a certificate of origin.
I didn't go transfer them though and all are insured through state farm.
MSO or statement of origins are issued by the manufacturer to the dealer. They are then either transferred to another dealer or to the first owner. MSO's get you titles that are issued by your state. MSO's cannot transfer ownership from owner to owner legally. Not all states issue titles for off-road vehicles so that puts some MSO's in limbo. The only reason dealers do not charge sales tax to out of state buyers is because there is a Vin number and a MSO. That does not excuse you from owing tax when buying an off-road vehicle in most states. You are responsible for paying the tax and registering your vehicle if required. Not doing so puts you in violation of the law and in most states is a misdemeanor. This has not changed but in the past these purchases slipped thru the cracks because off-road vehicles never got registered. Now almost every state has figured this out and now has an interstate tax form that each dealer must fill out for tax exempt sales. The dealer puts your name address and phone number on this form along with the vin and what you paid and turns that into the state dept of revenue. They will make you sign this form that says that you agree to go back you your state and pay sales tax. States now send these forms to each other and have effectively now closed that loophole.
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Timo_2824
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11/9/2020 4:28pm
lumpy790 wrote:
If you buy and finance you have to have a state title
My bike is financed, all I needed was proof of insurance.
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O&GDriller
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11/9/2020 4:50pm Edited Date/Time 11/9/2020 5:05pm
crusher773 wrote:
Umm I've never titled one in like 30 years.
I'm also n OK/Tulsa and haven't ever paid tax as I also don't title them. Only drawback with just an MSO is it might be hard for a buyer to get a loan and dealers here won't take a bike in on trade without a title. I always sell my bikes myself so this hasn't been an issue.
O&GDriller
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11/9/2020 4:55pm Edited Date/Time 11/9/2020 5:01pm
captmoto wrote:
Money grab. On the other hand I can insure my bike with a title. If it's stolen I have some consolation that I will get something...
Money grab. On the other hand I can insure my bike with a title. If it's stolen I have some consolation that I will get something back for it.
FWIW, I have all 3 of my bikes insured in Oklahoma with markelamerican.com and none have titles.
rallendude
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11/10/2020 4:53am
rallendude wrote:
Alabama does not issue titles for dirt bikes unless you are converting it for street use. It has become a huge pain in the rear selling...
Alabama does not issue titles for dirt bikes unless you are converting it for street use.

It has become a huge pain in the rear selling bikes through Facebook with all the folks from out of state asking, "does it have a title?" I don't hardly even answer the question anymore.
gharmon wrote:
They come with certificate or origins though right? I live on the Alabama side of the GA/Al line and work near Atlanta. All my current bikes...
They come with certificate or origins though right? I live on the Alabama side of the GA/Al line and work near Atlanta. All my current bikes except one have a certificate of origin. No sure if they are Ga or Al though. I have two ktm 65's a Husky 85, a crf250, yz250, crf 50 and klx110.
The 110 is the only one without a certificate of origin.
I didn't go transfer them though and all are insured through state farm.
You are correct, but unless you are concerned the previous owner might come along and claim you stole the bike, no reason to transfer. I don't remember the last time I provided anything other than a hand writting, or computer produced Bill of Sale.
Highflier
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11/10/2020 7:15am
Titling is for identification and taxing, it’s different from state to state.

The days of buying out of state and not paying tax are fading.
States are establishing reciprocal agreements for collecting sales taxes.

Another dick move is some states don’t allow dealers to sell to out of state customers, they want the tax money to stay in state.
peelout
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11/10/2020 8:26am
years (and years) ago i got pulled over on the freeway with my bike in the back of my truck. i didn't have the registration stickers on the forks as it was a competition bike (track only) and most of the tracks around here are private owned and do not require your bike to be licensed. anyway, i was close to having the bike impounded because i didn't have the proper registration. again, it was registered just didn't have the stickers. i've heard of people having their bikes impounded for failure to prove ownership.

don't know where i'm going with this other than to say i'm on the fence about the title topic. if you don't title it then who's to say it belongs to you?

now as for being forced to register it every year, i think that's bullshit. i ride the same trails that all the hikers, mtb's, horses, etc ride but i'm the only one paying a fee every year. and i'm the asshole on the trail (in everyone else's eyes) because i'm the guy with the motor.
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yz133rider
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11/10/2020 9:03am Edited Date/Time 11/10/2020 9:04am
peelout wrote:
years (and years) ago i got pulled over on the freeway with my bike in the back of my truck. i didn't have the registration stickers...
years (and years) ago i got pulled over on the freeway with my bike in the back of my truck. i didn't have the registration stickers on the forks as it was a competition bike (track only) and most of the tracks around here are private owned and do not require your bike to be licensed. anyway, i was close to having the bike impounded because i didn't have the proper registration. again, it was registered just didn't have the stickers. i've heard of people having their bikes impounded for failure to prove ownership.

don't know where i'm going with this other than to say i'm on the fence about the title topic. if you don't title it then who's to say it belongs to you?

now as for being forced to register it every year, i think that's bullshit. i ride the same trails that all the hikers, mtb's, horses, etc ride but i'm the only one paying a fee every year. and i'm the asshole on the trail (in everyone else's eyes) because i'm the guy with the motor.
They’re only hassling you about proving ownership because they want you to pay the fees to register it.

If you drove past them with a $3000 refrigerator, a 15k bicycle, a 15k lawn tractor in the back of the truck they wouldn’t blink twice.

But because it was an opportunity to impound (which is big $$$ for them) write you a fine ( big money) and force you to register it (if you hadn’t which was their real assumption. And again, big money)

They absolutely didn’t give one shit if it was stolen.
rmgsxr
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11/10/2020 11:30am
yz133rider wrote:
They’re only hassling you about proving ownership because they want you to pay the fees to register it. If you drove past them with a $3000...
They’re only hassling you about proving ownership because they want you to pay the fees to register it.

If you drove past them with a $3000 refrigerator, a 15k bicycle, a 15k lawn tractor in the back of the truck they wouldn’t blink twice.

But because it was an opportunity to impound (which is big $$$ for them) write you a fine ( big money) and force you to register it (if you hadn’t which was their real assumption. And again, big money)

They absolutely didn’t give one shit if it was stolen.
When you buy the refrigerator, bicycle and lawn tractor you pay sales tax when you pick them up. A bunch of states do not require the dealership to collect sales tax on motor vehicles at the time of purchase. You pay sales tax at the DMV at the time of registration.

There's not much you can buy anymore without paying sales tax.

Most(not all) insurance companies will not pay out on a total loss without the owner handing over the title to the motor vehicle. For those of you saying you have insurance on your bike but you never titled it you may want to give your insurance company a call and see if they will payout without a title. And don't call your agent because they may just tell you what you want to hear. I've seen it first hand where someone had been paying insurance for years and when they had a total loss the insurance company told them that as soon as they come up with a title they would pay the money.

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