So, the Altitude at SLC.........Advantage Tomac?

5/17/2020 4:40pm
Oldschool wrote:
GUY B.
I HATE the thumbs UP / thumbs DOWN
It would make me not want to post anything anymore.

What do you think...?
Then don't post anymore, its not like you add much to the place anyway. Cool
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Oldschool
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5/17/2020 4:42pm Edited Date/Time 5/17/2020 5:01pm
Your right, I haven't owned a bike since 2017 and really don't have much to offer these days. Long live the Memories of Mikee P's Fresh Dirt
BobbyM
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5/17/2020 4:53pm
Anderson from Rio Rathole New Mexico. 5300 asl.

Tomac from Cortez COLORADO. 6200

Everybody else anywhere USA. 50 feet bsl.
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BobbyM
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5/17/2020 4:53pm
Hcallz5 wrote:
The crazy thing to me about finishing in SLC is the lack of places to ride around here. Sadly we don't really have any decent tracks...
The crazy thing to me about finishing in SLC is the lack of places to ride around here. Sadly we don't really have any decent tracks to speak of. I can't imagine the riders will want to fly back and fourth from Cali just to practice.
Practice is the race Ace.
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The Shop

RCMXracing
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5/17/2020 5:24pm Edited Date/Time 5/17/2020 5:41pm
There’s a lot of misunderstanding about altitude acclimatization. The biggest one is the whole “training at high altitude”. I’m absolutely not an expert on any of this and someone on vital will chime in I’m sure, but one thing stuck with me and that is “live high, train low”. By living at higher altitudes you increase O2 carrying red blood cells and how they “hang on to” Oxygen. To take advantage of that fully you train at low altitude. Training at high altitude is not an advantage, but living there is.

From what I’m reading you can acclimate to a basic level in 1 to 3 days, but couple weeks better. But really SLC isn’t that high. Once the riders adapt they’ll be fine, I would definitely go out early.
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APLMAN99
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5/17/2020 5:42pm
Hcallz5 wrote:
The crazy thing to me about finishing in SLC is the lack of places to ride around here. Sadly we don't really have any decent tracks...
The crazy thing to me about finishing in SLC is the lack of places to ride around here. Sadly we don't really have any decent tracks to speak of. I can't imagine the riders will want to fly back and fourth from Cali just to practice.
They have to be in Utah at least 48 hours before the race or they don’t get to compete, so I don’t see many traveling back to CA for a few hours of practice. I could see Feld allowing quite a bit more practice time before the race, or even building a few practice tracks at the Miller park deal, even.
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avidchimp
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5/17/2020 5:48pm
Hcallz5 wrote:
The crazy thing to me about finishing in SLC is the lack of places to ride around here. Sadly we don't really have any decent tracks...
The crazy thing to me about finishing in SLC is the lack of places to ride around here. Sadly we don't really have any decent tracks to speak of. I can't imagine the riders will want to fly back and fourth from Cali just to practice.
APLMAN99 wrote:
They have to be in Utah at least 48 hours before the race or they don’t get to compete, so I don’t see many traveling back...
They have to be in Utah at least 48 hours before the race or they don’t get to compete, so I don’t see many traveling back to CA for a few hours of practice. I could see Feld allowing quite a bit more practice time before the race, or even building a few practice tracks at the Miller park deal, even.
Kenny has a track in St. George that is currently being rebuilt.
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RCMXracing
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5/17/2020 7:19pm
avidchimp wrote:
Kenny has a track in St. George that is currently being rebuilt.
That is interesting. Secret track? Tell us more.
avidchimp
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5/17/2020 7:26pm
RCMXracing wrote:
That is interesting. Secret track? Tell us more.
I'm not going to blow it out on this board, but there will be a solid Honda crew in St. George for a month.
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FGR01
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I think that it will be a factor without question. Altitude, the dry air, and so many races in such a short time will make it...
I think that it will be a factor without question. Altitude, the dry air, and so many races in such a short time will make it grueling.
This exactly. On top of these less than ideal factors, just being totally out of their usual routine. Not going home between races. Not having your home gym, practice track, training facility, training guy, sleeping in your own bed, all of it. The guys with motorhomes will have a nice advantage. A personal place to get some rest away from all the rest of the travelling circus.

Which brings up another point...bikes, parts, rebuilds, etc. For the factory guys, not a huge deal. They have everything they need in the truck. But for the lower tier guys, you've got to make 1 bike last 7 rounds without a rebuild? Or by scrounging whatever help you can get locally I guess.
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cable
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5/17/2020 8:55pm
small track- advantage webb.
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kiwifan
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5/17/2020 10:21pm
Depends how hard the guys have been training to know who has the advantage...judging by all of the top riders instgrams (yes including Kenny's for those who think he is not ready!) they have been training hard for some weeks, so could be a level playing field.
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GuyB
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5/17/2020 11:04pm Edited Date/Time 5/17/2020 11:07pm
Oldschool wrote:
GUY B.
I HATE the thumbs UP / thumbs DOWN
It would make me not want to post anything anymore.

What do you think...?
I think it doesn't matter, and stop whining. Wink

I had one team manager last week tell me that SLC equates to about a 20% reduction in horsepower.

From experience, I know that when I'm riding my mountain bike at altitude and put in an effort climbing through a section, that about 30 seconds later it'll hit me. If you're already tapped and not ready for it, it really saps you. If you know to expect it, and pace yourself accordingly, it's not bad.
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Racer111
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5/18/2020 5:52am
KX500 wrote:
I completely get that these are world class athletes and I'd be surprised to see any effects of high altitude in the 1st 2-3 races. My...
I completely get that these are world class athletes and I'd be surprised to see any effects of high altitude in the 1st 2-3 races.

My question was more from a 7 races in 21 days perspective. My assumption is that even world class athletes, who don't live/train at high altitude, will need more than normal recovery time after a race before being ready to race again at high elevation. And instead, they race again in 3 days.

After they've done 3 races in 8 days, with shortened recovery time (when they needed extra recovery time), will it add up for some racers? Are they going to be lacking their normal stamina by races 5, 6, 7?

I'm just thinking of some brutal summer MX races, where a rider gives his all, does well, pukes when it's over and, when interviewed after the race the following weekend, says - yeah I over did it so much last weekend, that I couldn't get fully recovered this week, only able to ride 80-90% today.

I suppose it's just that the variables of A) 7 races/21 days and Cool all races at about 4300 ft, that have me wondering. Both things unprecedented and will probably come down to hindsight to know if either mattered.
It will get easier for them as the races go on. Takes about two weeks for a body to start to acclimate to the higher altitude. Being there, racing and training, The first week would be the worst for those not conditioned to altitude. Anderson will get stronger each round.

For those that don’t know, training at altitude is literally legalized doping. It raises the body’s hematocrit level. This is what Tomac always has the huge pushes 2/3 through an outdoor race while everyone else is getting gassed.

In the US Colorado is where all the best endurance athletes live and train. I’m surprised more MX guys haven’t decided to make this a base. Supercross is only a 20 min race, so it’s not as much of an advantage, but outdoors where there are two 37 min moto’s it would be. Especially mid to late second moto.
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gregyou
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5/18/2020 7:19am
KX500 wrote:
I completely get that these are world class athletes and I'd be surprised to see any effects of high altitude in the 1st 2-3 races. My...
I completely get that these are world class athletes and I'd be surprised to see any effects of high altitude in the 1st 2-3 races.

My question was more from a 7 races in 21 days perspective. My assumption is that even world class athletes, who don't live/train at high altitude, will need more than normal recovery time after a race before being ready to race again at high elevation. And instead, they race again in 3 days.

After they've done 3 races in 8 days, with shortened recovery time (when they needed extra recovery time), will it add up for some racers? Are they going to be lacking their normal stamina by races 5, 6, 7?

I'm just thinking of some brutal summer MX races, where a rider gives his all, does well, pukes when it's over and, when interviewed after the race the following weekend, says - yeah I over did it so much last weekend, that I couldn't get fully recovered this week, only able to ride 80-90% today.

I suppose it's just that the variables of A) 7 races/21 days and Cool all races at about 4300 ft, that have me wondering. Both things unprecedented and will probably come down to hindsight to know if either mattered.
Racer111 wrote:
It will get easier for them as the races go on. Takes about two weeks for a body to start to acclimate to the higher altitude...
It will get easier for them as the races go on. Takes about two weeks for a body to start to acclimate to the higher altitude. Being there, racing and training, The first week would be the worst for those not conditioned to altitude. Anderson will get stronger each round.

For those that don’t know, training at altitude is literally legalized doping. It raises the body’s hematocrit level. This is what Tomac always has the huge pushes 2/3 through an outdoor race while everyone else is getting gassed.

In the US Colorado is where all the best endurance athletes live and train. I’m surprised more MX guys haven’t decided to make this a base. Supercross is only a 20 min race, so it’s not as much of an advantage, but outdoors where there are two 37 min moto’s it would be. Especially mid to late second moto.
Tomac has said him self there is two sides to it.
Training at high altitude the muscle get less oxygen so it’s harder for them to get stronger
str8line
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5/18/2020 7:29am Edited Date/Time 5/18/2020 7:31am
Any word on whether there will be open practice on off days? I'm guessing there wouldn't be much time for it if they rebuild the track after every race. Maybe some private tracks being built around SLC as we speak?

BTW there is a new track coming soon about an hour south of SLC.

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Hank_Thrill
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5/18/2020 10:44am
RCMXracing wrote:
There’s a lot of misunderstanding about altitude acclimatization. The biggest one is the whole “training at high altitude”. I’m absolutely not an expert on any of...
There’s a lot of misunderstanding about altitude acclimatization. The biggest one is the whole “training at high altitude”. I’m absolutely not an expert on any of this and someone on vital will chime in I’m sure, but one thing stuck with me and that is “live high, train low”. By living at higher altitudes you increase O2 carrying red blood cells and how they “hang on to” Oxygen. To take advantage of that fully you train at low altitude. Training at high altitude is not an advantage, but living there is.

From what I’m reading you can acclimate to a basic level in 1 to 3 days, but couple weeks better. But really SLC isn’t that high. Once the riders adapt they’ll be fine, I would definitely go out early.
Correct.

I've raced mountain bikes at extremely high elevations. Guys from Colorado will come down to Texas and crush a ride for the first few hours. Since their muscles are not able to be pushed pushed as hard as they can while near sea level, their legs will crap out quickly. On the other hand I've done some 12,500 feet elevation gain races in Colorado. I didn't have near the red blood cell capacity as someone living there, but since I trained low my legs were practically fine the next day. The lack of oxygen restricted my legs like a governor.

Train low / sleep high = you maximize both your oxygen carrying red blood cells and your muscular strength.

On a side note: these guys have heard about the race being in Utah for quite a while now. There are high elevation tents runners and cyclists use to train low and sleep high, so hopefully some of these riders have invested in them.
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Go Beavs
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5/18/2020 9:44pm
I don't think the altitude will play a role, Ken spends time in SLC in the off season. I think that the fact that all of the races will be in the same location will benefit Tomac if anything. For someone who has struggled with consistency in the past, being able to ride in the same stadium with the same dirt for seven races in a row might help prevent the weirdo Tomac rides from occurring.
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Lightning78
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5/18/2020 9:57pm
Question wrote:
Legit question. Yes, very possible. But so much can happen that I don't think it will be the deciding factor at all. Starts, competitors, racing incidents...
Legit question. Yes, very possible. But so much can happen that I don't think it will be the deciding factor at all. Starts, competitors, racing incidents, crashes, and staight up raw speed will probably account for 99% of the outcome. I predict Tomac, but everything is possible, any bad start and not finding his groove can as much crown Roczen ... or Tomac. Tomac seems to move more easily in the pack, but he doesn't find his rythm all the time, whereas Roczen seems to be a better starter but seems to be more unconfortable to make moves if mid pack. Both are very deserving so I will be cheering for both anyway.
Yes Roczen is a better starter to the season in general....he usually and historically has won the majority of his races in the beginning of the season vs the latter part where Eli cleans house.

I feel that with this break, Kenny will come out swinging just long enough to garner a points lead like he has done pretty much every season hes been healthy bec it's very much akin to starting a new season again. By the time he starts to fall off or plateau, there will be 4 of the 7 rounds run and if Eli starts off like he normally does, my thought is that Kenny will have a points lead big enough to not worry over the last 3 rounds long as he cards a top 5 finish. Just a thought from how these two typically approach the season. We all know Eli doesnt really do his best under pressure and condensing 7 races into a few weeks is a pressure cooker. Besides, Kenny has spent plenty of time in SLC thanks to his in-laws so the Utah area isnt foreign to him.
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Motofinne
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5/18/2020 10:13pm Edited Date/Time 5/18/2020 10:13pm
Tomac definitely has an advantage because of where he trains, how big or small that advantage is is very difficult to say.

Then again, Roczen is always great in the beginning of a series and Tomac usually starts a bit slower. And this is basically a new 7 round series?

Either way, this will be awesome. And don't forget about Webb.
5/19/2020 8:15am
Advantage Roczen. He doesn't have to deal with newborn baby on the mind.....
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5/19/2020 8:21am
The main contenders will be up there in advance to acclimatize. There must be qualified trainers here which can elaborate a little further. I'm no specialist but I'm assuming it will be beneficial to be up there in advance for mid week training etc.
avidchimp
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5/19/2020 8:46am Edited Date/Time 5/19/2020 8:47am
Really surprised you internet sleuths haven't figured out that Jason Anderson is already up in the #505 in N.M.

I think that's awesome. Giving himself a couple weeks prep and rest at a higher elevation than SLC.
OG725
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5/19/2020 10:16am
BobbyM wrote:
Anderson from Rio Rathole New Mexico. 5300 asl.

Tomac from Cortez COLORADO. 6200

Everybody else anywhere USA. 50 feet bsl.
I saw somebody saying Anderson couldn’t acclimate. Thought that was ludicrous. Now look up the normal Density Altitude of those locations. I’m betting Rio Rathole normally reads like it’s 9000’ above sea level.
sandtrack315
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5/19/2020 10:28am
Eh, maybe it gives a slight advantage to Tomac, but it's a small one that will diminish as Kenny acclimates.
NvHermit
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5/19/2020 10:36am
Nobody's talking about Barcia punting one of the top three so he can be on the podium at the year end
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OG725
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5/19/2020 12:36pm
BobbyM wrote:
Anderson from Rio Rathole New Mexico. 5300 asl.

Tomac from Cortez COLORADO. 6200

Everybody else anywhere USA. 50 feet bsl.
OG725 wrote:
I saw somebody saying Anderson couldn’t acclimate. Thought that was ludicrous. Now look up the normal Density Altitude of those locations. I’m betting Rio Rathole normally...
I saw somebody saying Anderson couldn’t acclimate. Thought that was ludicrous. Now look up the normal Density Altitude of those locations. I’m betting Rio Rathole normally reads like it’s 9000’ above sea level.
Both Cortez and ABQ are reading about 9000’ DA now. SLC is reading about 7800’.
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avidchimp
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5/19/2020 12:45pm
OG725 wrote:
I saw somebody saying Anderson couldn’t acclimate. Thought that was ludicrous. Now look up the normal Density Altitude of those locations. I’m betting Rio Rathole normally...
I saw somebody saying Anderson couldn’t acclimate. Thought that was ludicrous. Now look up the normal Density Altitude of those locations. I’m betting Rio Rathole normally reads like it’s 9000’ above sea level.
From what I understand (I am not Jason's doctor) his issues mostly lie in short term exposure of being at altitude much like me. If I am up at altitude for a couple weeks, I won't need medication anymore. But those first couple days/week are terrible.

If he stays up in NM till this SX thing starts, he will be just fine.
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avidchimp
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5/19/2020 12:45pm
NvHermit wrote:
Nobody's talking about Barcia punting one of the top three so he can be on the podium at the year end
Cooper better make sure he stays far away from BamBam. hahaha
BroFoSho
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5/19/2020 1:35pm
I would think the biggest factor is who can get a solid base setting for the SLC dirt. With no time to test parts between races, bikes need to be dialed.
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