Hmm. How does this happen?

GuyB
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Aliso Viejo, CA US
2/25/2020 3:44pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
Just a guess, but it could be that a couple riders took off for their parade laps without being lined up perfectly and the dirt was...
Just a guess, but it could be that a couple riders took off for their parade laps without being lined up perfectly and the dirt was just soft enough to leave those small ruts. During the actual starts, the riders probably took off on the center rut.

Or not.
I'm going to go with not.
1
JM485
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Davis, CA US
2/25/2020 4:02pm
Never heard of this rule, but whenever I start on a metal grate I always go slightly to one side or the other. If you line up right in the middle there is usually a support tube running underneath the metal grate, and if your tire digs into the grate far enough they’ll be stopped by this tube, hence less traction. I can’t remember from SX Futures if the supercross grates are like this, but our X-climb hillclimb grates have that center support running down them so I always nudge to one side.
Jeff alessi
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2/25/2020 5:03pm
Pretty obvious, the person in that gate didn't want to make his gates rut deeper and deeper for a practice start on the site lap, so waited for the guys around him to go then did a start off the center line to still get the start in but not dig a deeper rut. No way a rider can do a race start off center, I know this because I once got a holeshot after the guy next to me had bike issues and pulled out and I was able to move out of the rut at the last second, I never got that opportunity again but always sized it up to try and find room if ever a gate rut was a little off center but no matter how much that deviated it wasn't enough room. You have about 5-7 inches between your grip and the guys grips next to you. its not enough room even if the ruts are and inch or 2 off normal.

With it being a triple crown and a rider having multiple starts I would imagine the rider got the same gate twice and it made sense to preserve the rut since there were more starts that actually mattered in the long run.

Also I've tried to start out of the rut and those AMA refs are on it, like I said I got away with it 1 time and that was because the guy next to me pulled out with 10 seconds on the card before going sideways, it happened just perfect 1 time between 05-12 (just realized it was at Arlington too) so between not having enough room to consistently get that opportunity and the fact it happened twice in one night I'd say that's pretty much what your looking at. Site lap start.
25
kkawboy14
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2/25/2020 5:06pm Edited Date/Time 2/25/2020 5:07pm
Pretty obvious, the person in that gate didn't want to make his gates rut deeper and deeper for a practice start on the site lap, so...
Pretty obvious, the person in that gate didn't want to make his gates rut deeper and deeper for a practice start on the site lap, so waited for the guys around him to go then did a start off the center line to still get the start in but not dig a deeper rut. No way a rider can do a race start off center, I know this because I once got a holeshot after the guy next to me had bike issues and pulled out and I was able to move out of the rut at the last second, I never got that opportunity again but always sized it up to try and find room if ever a gate rut was a little off center but no matter how much that deviated it wasn't enough room. You have about 5-7 inches between your grip and the guys grips next to you. its not enough room even if the ruts are and inch or 2 off normal.

With it being a triple crown and a rider having multiple starts I would imagine the rider got the same gate twice and it made sense to preserve the rut since there were more starts that actually mattered in the long run.

Also I've tried to start out of the rut and those AMA refs are on it, like I said I got away with it 1 time and that was because the guy next to me pulled out with 10 seconds on the card before going sideways, it happened just perfect 1 time between 05-12 (just realized it was at Arlington too) so between not having enough room to consistently get that opportunity and the fact it happened twice in one night I'd say that's pretty much what your looking at. Site lap start.
A rider can move over if it’s not a full gate can’t he?

I thought they make you start in the middle if there are guys on both sides of you.

The Shop

StevieTimes
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2/25/2020 5:14pm Edited Date/Time 2/25/2020 6:27pm
This is... "GateGate"...?

#GateGate

?
8
Cashmore
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2/25/2020 5:16pm
Crush
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2/25/2020 5:20pm
I might be missing something here, but how the fuck does this matter?

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APLMAN99
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Fantasy
2/25/2020 5:38pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
Just a guess, but it could be that a couple riders took off for their parade laps without being lined up perfectly and the dirt was...
Just a guess, but it could be that a couple riders took off for their parade laps without being lined up perfectly and the dirt was just soft enough to leave those small ruts. During the actual starts, the riders probably took off on the center rut.

Or not.
GuyB wrote:
I'm going to go with not.
Hold on! I think that J Alessi may have just described exactly what I was talking about!

Or not, of course......!
6
reded
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2/25/2020 6:16pm
Zaugg wrote:
Could also potentially be boots dragging from a taller rider. (Notice how the middle seems to have tread/ roost marks and the outers do not.) Unless...
Could also potentially be boots dragging from a taller rider. (Notice how the middle seems to have tread/ roost marks and the outers do not.)

Unless the same rider picked the same gate and did the magical shimmy, it looks like the two outer tracks are one gate drop a piece. The middle seems to have been the most widely used. 4 out of 6 times perhaps if my math is correct. haha

aeffertz wrote:
Only way boots are making those rutis if they’re actively digging them into the ground trying to stop the bike from moving.
Old KTM riders can attest to this.
2/25/2020 6:26pm
Non issue, must be a really slow news day at Vital.
just James
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2/25/2020 6:27pm
As long as you aren't hitting the rider beside you, who cares?
1
imjusthere
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2/25/2020 6:32pm
Zeke27G wrote:

The cold handed official dude who walks by warming his hand on their mufflers should have caught that.
Not going to lie it seems like he’s the laziest “official” out there. All you see is him doing his best to be on TV.
SEEMEFIRST
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2/25/2020 6:42pm
Couldn't be practice starts, no way.... Sideways
Jeff alessi
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2/25/2020 7:00pm
Pretty obvious, the person in that gate didn't want to make his gates rut deeper and deeper for a practice start on the site lap, so...
Pretty obvious, the person in that gate didn't want to make his gates rut deeper and deeper for a practice start on the site lap, so waited for the guys around him to go then did a start off the center line to still get the start in but not dig a deeper rut. No way a rider can do a race start off center, I know this because I once got a holeshot after the guy next to me had bike issues and pulled out and I was able to move out of the rut at the last second, I never got that opportunity again but always sized it up to try and find room if ever a gate rut was a little off center but no matter how much that deviated it wasn't enough room. You have about 5-7 inches between your grip and the guys grips next to you. its not enough room even if the ruts are and inch or 2 off normal.

With it being a triple crown and a rider having multiple starts I would imagine the rider got the same gate twice and it made sense to preserve the rut since there were more starts that actually mattered in the long run.

Also I've tried to start out of the rut and those AMA refs are on it, like I said I got away with it 1 time and that was because the guy next to me pulled out with 10 seconds on the card before going sideways, it happened just perfect 1 time between 05-12 (just realized it was at Arlington too) so between not having enough room to consistently get that opportunity and the fact it happened twice in one night I'd say that's pretty much what your looking at. Site lap start.
kkawboy14 wrote:
A rider can move over if it’s not a full gate can’t he? I thought they make you start in the middle if there are guys...
A rider can move over if it’s not a full gate can’t he?

I thought they make you start in the middle if there are guys on both sides of you.
No a rider has to line up in the rut, or center. You can't be off center of your gate because there's not enough room between you and the riders around you. Even if you start next to the box your inside grip is close enough to hit the box if you start like a begginer and mess it up big enough.

Really no one on that gate Saturday night tries to pull it off, you more then always have someone next to you and the AMA guys will spot it before the gate drops 99.9% of the time.


For the guy that says why does it matter, think about it like this. If your in the ktm 50 junior race and you have a 7 inch rut in front of you and the kid next to you is on a perfectly flat surface all the way out, who do you put your money on for that holeshot? Now think about who you see getting the holeshot each weekend and what you see is the guy who gets there elbow in front by even half an inch over the guys next to him wins the battle 100% of the time. Go watch what Adam did to Eli at San Diego, although he didn't get the holeshot he barged his elbow over Eli's and cans out of the first time 3rd while Eli was in 15th. All it took was that half an inch. That 7 inch deep rut is important. They say condition over position, in the days of dirt starts this was a huge advantage but still could be considered flirting with the rules since it's in the rule book mandatory to line up in the rut.

Last year at Anaheim futures it was still all dirt and I noticed outside had riders missing in a few of the races so I told a few riders to go out there and start in between and 3 strait holeshots happened and then the AMA guys told me to get out of there and knew what I was doing. Lmao.
7
2/26/2020 2:08am
Was it chads? He looks off to the side to me here..
4
KMC440
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2/26/2020 2:49am
I can't believe that this is a this .... who the hell cares ! !
3
2
CPR
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2/26/2020 4:42am
Was it chads? He looks off to the side to me here..[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/02/26/406795/s1200_8BADEEE8_8C89_4BB1_9844_5B96CC1E3657.jpg[/img]
Was it chads? He looks off to the side to me here..
Wouldn't be surprised if it was the old dog, but if it was, it certainly didn't help because his starts have been shit.
2
Crush
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2/26/2020 5:05am
CPR wrote:
Wouldn't be surprised if it was the old dog, but if it was, it certainly didn't help because his starts have been shit.
They've been worse than shit.
3
hellion
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Westfield, MA US
2/26/2020 5:45am
Jeff’s take sounds right to me, and it was a pretty smart move by the rider if so. Question, does the second race gate pick go by qualifying or by first race position?
kkawboy14
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TX US
2/26/2020 5:54am
Pretty obvious, the person in that gate didn't want to make his gates rut deeper and deeper for a practice start on the site lap, so...
Pretty obvious, the person in that gate didn't want to make his gates rut deeper and deeper for a practice start on the site lap, so waited for the guys around him to go then did a start off the center line to still get the start in but not dig a deeper rut. No way a rider can do a race start off center, I know this because I once got a holeshot after the guy next to me had bike issues and pulled out and I was able to move out of the rut at the last second, I never got that opportunity again but always sized it up to try and find room if ever a gate rut was a little off center but no matter how much that deviated it wasn't enough room. You have about 5-7 inches between your grip and the guys grips next to you. its not enough room even if the ruts are and inch or 2 off normal.

With it being a triple crown and a rider having multiple starts I would imagine the rider got the same gate twice and it made sense to preserve the rut since there were more starts that actually mattered in the long run.

Also I've tried to start out of the rut and those AMA refs are on it, like I said I got away with it 1 time and that was because the guy next to me pulled out with 10 seconds on the card before going sideways, it happened just perfect 1 time between 05-12 (just realized it was at Arlington too) so between not having enough room to consistently get that opportunity and the fact it happened twice in one night I'd say that's pretty much what your looking at. Site lap start.
kkawboy14 wrote:
A rider can move over if it’s not a full gate can’t he? I thought they make you start in the middle if there are guys...
A rider can move over if it’s not a full gate can’t he?

I thought they make you start in the middle if there are guys on both sides of you.
No a rider has to line up in the rut, or center. You can't be off center of your gate because there's not enough room between...
No a rider has to line up in the rut, or center. You can't be off center of your gate because there's not enough room between you and the riders around you. Even if you start next to the box your inside grip is close enough to hit the box if you start like a begginer and mess it up big enough.

Really no one on that gate Saturday night tries to pull it off, you more then always have someone next to you and the AMA guys will spot it before the gate drops 99.9% of the time.


For the guy that says why does it matter, think about it like this. If your in the ktm 50 junior race and you have a 7 inch rut in front of you and the kid next to you is on a perfectly flat surface all the way out, who do you put your money on for that holeshot? Now think about who you see getting the holeshot each weekend and what you see is the guy who gets there elbow in front by even half an inch over the guys next to him wins the battle 100% of the time. Go watch what Adam did to Eli at San Diego, although he didn't get the holeshot he barged his elbow over Eli's and cans out of the first time 3rd while Eli was in 15th. All it took was that half an inch. That 7 inch deep rut is important. They say condition over position, in the days of dirt starts this was a huge advantage but still could be considered flirting with the rules since it's in the rule book mandatory to line up in the rut.

Last year at Anaheim futures it was still all dirt and I noticed outside had riders missing in a few of the races so I told a few riders to go out there and start in between and 3 strait holeshots happened and then the AMA guys told me to get out of there and knew what I was doing. Lmao.
But if the gate isn’t full and there is no one beside you it’s easy to move over.

In local races we do it all the time.
1
1
2/26/2020 6:11am
I was on the floor working as a fill in mechanic at Tampa...the "lazy" officials were stringent in regards to lining up the gates. And, it was checked at least 3-4 times up and down before the 10 second board. Could be an oversight past weekend? Or, did the empty gates in the last 250 and 450 mains create an advantageous situation?
1
mark_swart
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Chapin, SC US
2/26/2020 6:29am
psg119 wrote:
Do they police them prior to the sight laps as well?
I like your outside of the box thinking but what advantage would a rider have doing a practice start not knowing the condition of the rut...
I like your outside of the box thinking but what advantage would a rider have doing a practice start not knowing the condition of the rut for the start that actually matters?
stremme12 wrote:
I would think the advantage would be that you're not making the rut deeper by going through it for a practice start.
Exactly. I think the practice start theory makes a lot of sense.
MOTO1313
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Elkhorn, WI US
2/26/2020 6:45am
Those are Tomac's ruts. He started the same place twice. He rides so hard that his front tire even makes ruts.
5
-MAVERICK-
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Ontario CA
2/26/2020 6:49am
MOTO1313 wrote:
Those are Tomac's ruts. He started the same place twice. He rides so hard that his front tire even makes ruts.
Now, imagine how much faster he'd be if you weren't hanging from his nut sack all the time.
13
2/26/2020 6:51am
psg119 wrote:
Do they police them prior to the sight laps as well?
I like your outside of the box thinking but what advantage would a rider have doing a practice start not knowing the condition of the rut...
I like your outside of the box thinking but what advantage would a rider have doing a practice start not knowing the condition of the rut for the start that actually matters?
stremme12 wrote:
I would think the advantage would be that you're not making the rut deeper by going through it for a practice start.
True. But you also don't know how yourself or your bike is going to react when you hit it. I guess the pluses and minuses equal out.
MOTO1313
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2/26/2020 7:46am
MOTO1313 wrote:
Those are Tomac's ruts. He started the same place twice. He rides so hard that his front tire even makes ruts.
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Now, imagine how much faster he'd be if you weren't hanging from his nut sack all the time.
Now, that's not nice.
1
1
wsmille2
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Durham, NC US
2/26/2020 8:16am
Easy fix, slim the starting gate (grids) so if they don't line up in the center, they will be starting in the dirt.

Or you can paint the center of the gate to ensure all riders line up on the painted line.

The rule is very vague and only says that Motorcycles must be centered in the starting gate. However the rule goes on to say that the starting gate has to be a minimum of 80 feet.

2
face biter
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Lake Dallas, TX US
2/26/2020 8:23am
Simple, someone was riding a quad. Go look at all the pictures you took on Saturday and you’ll find the culprit.
2
PRM31
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Fantasy
2/26/2020 8:29am
And we really care about this because...?

If we simply knew which gate, a quick review of the event would reveal it quickly. That is if we actually cared.
MOTO1313
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2/26/2020 8:36am
It was Tomac...his balls are so big they drag.
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