Great fitness off bike and very poor on bike

Jackyy231
I do a lot of fitness off the bike. My fitness consists of lots of cycling, running, gym. I cycle 4 times a week and gym 2 times a week. I also add in balance and the general flexibility training. I have great fitness off the bike I can run for miles. My issue is soon as I throw a leg onto the bike. Shattered within 2 laps and bad arm pump. How should I approach this?
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cody41
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cody41 10/12/2019 3:24am
10/12/2019 3:24am
A couple things may be cause:
1) poor riding technique
2) you’re trying to ride too fast
3) not enough seat time.
I place them in this order of importance. Technique is everything in this sport and it’s easy to throw it out the window when you’re on the track.
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Crossup
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Crossup 10/12/2019 3:45am
10/12/2019 3:45am
Jackyy231 wrote:
I do a lot of fitness off the bike. My fitness consists of lots of cycling, running, gym. I cycle 4 times a week and gym...
I do a lot of fitness off the bike. My fitness consists of lots of cycling, running, gym. I cycle 4 times a week and gym 2 times a week. I also add in balance and the general flexibility training. I have great fitness off the bike I can run for miles. My issue is soon as I throw a leg onto the bike. Shattered within 2 laps and bad arm pump. How should I approach this?
I don't think anything you can do at the gym that replicates riding and will help remedy arm pump. More hours on the bike will definitely help.

First off I would take a few warm-up laps versus hitting it from the beginning. Try standing up more and use your legs to grip the bike. When I'm sitting down the arm pump comes on faster. I also avoid arm pump by properly breathing deep breaths. you'll be surprised that you're taking super shallow breaths while riding and what a difference it makes by taking deep breaths.
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zippytech
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zippytech 10/12/2019 4:16am
10/12/2019 4:16am Edited Date/Time 10/12/2019 4:19am
It always amazes me how everyone thinks gym fitness applies to motorcycle fitness. I have seen guys train in a gum for months and months and as soon as they get on the bike. They get slammed with a big shock that they cannot go out and run 10 minutes..

For most non pro riders. The only training you need to be doing is laps on the bike. Start by skipping the gym and put an hour a day on the bike or burn 5 or 10 gallon a gas a week.
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wideopen198 10/12/2019 4:30am
10/12/2019 4:30am
zippytech wrote:
It always amazes me how everyone thinks gym fitness applies to motorcycle fitness. I have seen guys train in a gum for months and months and...
It always amazes me how everyone thinks gym fitness applies to motorcycle fitness. I have seen guys train in a gum for months and months and as soon as they get on the bike. They get slammed with a big shock that they cannot go out and run 10 minutes..

For most non pro riders. The only training you need to be doing is laps on the bike. Start by skipping the gym and put an hour a day on the bike or burn 5 or 10 gallon a gas a week.
Well said. It's good to have some sort of base fitness but it still can't replace time on the bike.
If he did 2 days of cycling and 1 day of gym he'd still have enough base fitness.
Also what the others said: proper technique. You need to be efficient with your energy.
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ElliotB16
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ElliotB16 10/12/2019 4:31am
10/12/2019 4:31am
Riding technique. Try to ride loose and squeeze with your legs
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Hman144
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Hman144 10/12/2019 4:32am
10/12/2019 4:32am
I taught Dirt Bike School. In the morning introductions I talk about how riding may seem non-physical from the outside, but it can be very much so, and it will use muscles you normally don't use in that way. I had an adult student a while back who was a gym rat, and I saw him roll his eyes when I said that.

After about 2 minutes of teaching standing to ride, (standing on the pegs, riding in big circles on flat ground), he pulls in and says "Dude, I need to do more squats!"

No, you need to ride more.

Different muscles. Using different muscles will affect your cardio, too.
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OldHalfway
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OldHalfway 10/12/2019 4:51am
10/12/2019 4:51am
Seatime > gym time.
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dickjackson170 10/12/2019 5:06am
10/12/2019 5:06am
I'm certainly no MC or Aldon Baker, but ride, ride, ride. I train for triathlons. Just got back on the bike after a few years off, because my son is finally old enough to ride. I was gassed after a couple laps and my forearm felt like it was going to burst lol. It was embarrassing. Just no substitute for having your ass on the seat.
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SKIDLID
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SKIDLID 10/12/2019 5:25am
10/12/2019 5:25am
Try to relax, don’t death grip the bars. Relax your grip on jumps , use your legs. Fear stops your breathing , try running in a busy freeway. That’s what mx is like.
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kb228
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kb228 10/12/2019 5:43am
10/12/2019 5:43am
You have to ride yourself in shape.

Also its good to be strong in addition to good cardio health. From the sounds of it you do more cardio than heavy squats and deadlifts.
duckdog77
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duckdog77 10/12/2019 5:56am
10/12/2019 5:56am
I know I have to tell myself to take it easy the first few minutes of a GP. I like to go out blazing and can pump up bad if I do.

I like decent balance of gym and seat time. Gym 2-3 days a week, ride 1-2 times a week, ice hockey once a week. Race once a month.

Also suspension set up. I’ve played around with it to find a setting I like that keeps the arm pump down While trying to focus on loosening my grip on the bars, standing more, and overall technique.

My practice days have consisted of two laps standing and two laps normal. Back and fourth. It’s helped a lot I’m starting to prefer standing a lot more. It’s also helping with gripping with the legs and loosening my grip.
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Question 10/12/2019 6:07am
10/12/2019 6:07am Edited Date/Time 10/12/2019 6:07am
I am not an expert at all ; i just think that these off bike trainings are great to build a base but in term of cardio, there are not many sports that put your body in the red zone between 160 to 200 beat per minute, and it would be super unhealthy to be in this zone all the time. Half if not more of your off bike training can become "fractionated training", i think it is the only way to improve that a bit, full speed, a bit of recovery, full speed, recovery, and so on ; otherwise it is more a training for enduro where your heat beat is more between 120 to 150 during many hours. Then of course technique, not over attacking, and seat time to avoid arm pump, nothing really replace seat time. Good luck !
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Kristen_Valentino 10/12/2019 6:13am
10/12/2019 6:13am
Alot is riding technique, like said before, try to relax, work on regrip and over grip for throttle and braking, dont forget to breathe, I know when I go out and ride and I get arm pump it registers with me that my technique is off and position, grip with knees, elbows up and look ahead, I still tell my self the basics when I ride, also seems to help if I breathe through my nose and mouth.
Phil109
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Phil109 10/12/2019 6:16am
10/12/2019 6:16am
No time like seat time. Although I will say I have a buddy that rides(or doesn’t ride) about as much as me. We both lift, but I also do a lot of running. When we do go ride I can ride a lot longer than him. So it’s not all for nothing. But compared to someone who rides all the time I don’t measure up endurance wise.
JWalkowiak951 10/12/2019 6:20am
10/12/2019 6:20am
I noticed for me that doing a lot of arm exercises at the gym truly hurt my ability to hang on to the handlebars when I ride. Cardio has always been good for me but doing all the curls/extensions really was a disadvantage for my riding. I don’t know if it was just muscle memory that I wanted to grip the bars like a dumbbell/bar
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kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 10/12/2019 6:29am
10/12/2019 6:29am
Markee
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Markee 10/12/2019 6:43am
10/12/2019 6:43am
JWalkowiak951 wrote:
I noticed for me that doing a lot of arm exercises at the gym truly hurt my ability to hang on to the handlebars when I...
I noticed for me that doing a lot of arm exercises at the gym truly hurt my ability to hang on to the handlebars when I ride. Cardio has always been good for me but doing all the curls/extensions really was a disadvantage for my riding. I don’t know if it was just muscle memory that I wanted to grip the bars like a dumbbell/bar
That makes sense really. A curl has little to no cross over in moto.

Stand on the balls of your feet, knees bent, back about a 45 degree like and aggressive position on the bike. Use those same dumb bells or bar and pull to chest about grip length apart. You are still targeting the same muscles but in a conditioning way relating to moto. Moto gym training really is the opposite of "vanity gym training".

I enjoy gym work, it helps me in my job and in life. But I focus it to help me on my bike as well.
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mark_swart
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mark_swart 10/12/2019 7:04am
10/12/2019 7:04am Edited Date/Time 10/12/2019 7:04am
Jackyy231 wrote:
I do a lot of fitness off the bike. My fitness consists of lots of cycling, running, gym. I cycle 4 times a week and gym...
I do a lot of fitness off the bike. My fitness consists of lots of cycling, running, gym. I cycle 4 times a week and gym 2 times a week. I also add in balance and the general flexibility training. I have great fitness off the bike I can run for miles. My issue is soon as I throw a leg onto the bike. Shattered within 2 laps and bad arm pump. How should I approach this?
I agree with all of the recommendations for technique, but there is something else that I haven't seen anyone mention,

Breathing. Focus on breathing when you are riding. If you are holding your breath or not breathing deep enough, you will go upside down cardio wise after a lap. I always remind myself to breath over the jumps and it helps.

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agn5009
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agn5009 10/12/2019 7:07am
10/12/2019 7:07am
JWalkowiak951 wrote:
I noticed for me that doing a lot of arm exercises at the gym truly hurt my ability to hang on to the handlebars when I...
I noticed for me that doing a lot of arm exercises at the gym truly hurt my ability to hang on to the handlebars when I ride. Cardio has always been good for me but doing all the curls/extensions really was a disadvantage for my riding. I don’t know if it was just muscle memory that I wanted to grip the bars like a dumbbell/bar
Markee wrote:
That makes sense really. A curl has little to no cross over in moto. Stand on the balls of your feet, knees bent, back about a...
That makes sense really. A curl has little to no cross over in moto.

Stand on the balls of your feet, knees bent, back about a 45 degree like and aggressive position on the bike. Use those same dumb bells or bar and pull to chest about grip length apart. You are still targeting the same muscles but in a conditioning way relating to moto. Moto gym training really is the opposite of "vanity gym training".

I enjoy gym work, it helps me in my job and in life. But I focus it to help me on my bike as well.
Do high rep curls. Like 3 sets of 30. That helps tremendously. People think 3 sets of 12 is considered high rep-it’s not.
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MX558
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MX558 10/12/2019 7:24am
10/12/2019 7:24am Edited Date/Time 10/12/2019 7:34am
You can also try to get a good warm up in before you ride . I do 30 to 40 pushups about 20 minutes or so before I ride and I think it makes a huge difference. This has helped with arm pump immensely
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OldPro277
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OldPro277 10/12/2019 7:30am
10/12/2019 7:30am
Sounds like you have a great fitness foundation---I live in an area (rough winters) and have a job that prohibits riding 4 days a week but the "gym exercise" that my trainer and I found that's closest to replicating racing was doing moto's with 50' Battle ropes while doing body weight squats. Its a lot more difficult than it sounds and works just about the same muscles as riding. We started by doing 60 seconds on , 60 seconds off, to failure. and as I got stronger we upped the time and added the squats . It really helps cardio, arms, wrists,grip, shoulder/chest /back , obviously quads and really helped with balance training as well. It blasts you're heart rate while on and then gives you a short recovery time. All very similar to racing. Try it. May work for you too
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crusty_xx 10/12/2019 7:50am
10/12/2019 7:50am
1. Make sure you have good technique (watch rynos videos)
2. Ride more
Eliud Kipchoge would be spent after 10minutes, no matter how fast he can run a marathon.
GasGasOrAss
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GasGasOrAss 10/12/2019 8:13am
10/12/2019 8:13am
Concept2 rower
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omalley
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omalley 10/12/2019 8:26am
10/12/2019 8:26am
cody41 wrote:
A couple things may be cause: 1) poor riding technique 2) you’re trying to ride too fast 3) not enough seat time. I place them in...
A couple things may be cause:
1) poor riding technique
2) you’re trying to ride too fast
3) not enough seat time.
I place them in this order of importance. Technique is everything in this sport and it’s easy to throw it out the window when you’re on the track.
I would put 1 even with 3. If you ride enough, the bike becomes a second home and you can ride a lot longer because you’re relaxed.

When I was in college I rode 3-5 times per week. Before and since then I’ve been in much better physical condition at times, yet could never match the length of time I could ride before getting tired. I could also go full tilt with comfort after one sight in lap.
Tarz483
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Tarz483 10/12/2019 8:28am
10/12/2019 8:28am Edited Date/Time 10/12/2019 8:29am
Watch Some Ryan Hughes videos on YouTube!
=Problem solved
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yz25
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yz25 10/12/2019 8:34am
10/12/2019 8:34am
Struggled with the same issue. Gym 6-7 days. Get on the bike, was spent after 2-3 laps. The more I rode, not just worrying about how fast I tried to go, was never going to be fast just loved to ride, helped with muscle memory and the focus on longer seat time during a riding session. Even if it went from rolling the bigger jumps, just pushing a few more extra laps. Along with changing my diet helped a ton. Just purchased a concept 2 rower can’t wait to see where that take me on the track as well.
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Hammer 663s 10/12/2019 8:37am
10/12/2019 8:37am
Do 2-3 sets, 10 min each, 2x a week with a posthole digger and a T-stake driver. its how I start my moto Spring training since it’s really hard to get seat time in the PNW over the winter. Concept 2 and HIIT are my other 2 workouts. I don’t get arm pump except a bit during my first session of the ride day. Then I’m good.
crispytoast
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crispytoast 10/12/2019 9:02am
10/12/2019 9:02am
You're not squeezing the bike with your legs. Try riding and concentrating on just that and I bet you go more than two laps. Your arms are writing checks that only your legs can cash.
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aees
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aees 10/12/2019 9:56am
10/12/2019 9:56am
Jackyy231 wrote:
I do a lot of fitness off the bike. My fitness consists of lots of cycling, running, gym. I cycle 4 times a week and gym...
I do a lot of fitness off the bike. My fitness consists of lots of cycling, running, gym. I cycle 4 times a week and gym 2 times a week. I also add in balance and the general flexibility training. I have great fitness off the bike I can run for miles. My issue is soon as I throw a leg onto the bike. Shattered within 2 laps and bad arm pump. How should I approach this?
Is the issue just armpump?

And for a hard packed track you just need cardio fitness. Zone 2,4,5. You need all of them.

And it is no problem doing off bike cardio and gym to get you to a close elite level, or for your level to get better fitness then guys riding 4-7 days a week.

Doing Moto only is not a good way of getting optimal fitness, not even for moto itself since it is solely zone 5, or some zone 4 which creates a lot of stress on your system.
HighPlainsSquid 10/12/2019 10:02am
10/12/2019 10:02am Edited Date/Time 10/12/2019 3:57pm
I had HUGE problems with this for the longest time. I could ride my MTB for hour+ rides, no problem. Get on the dirt bike and I couldn't do 1 lap at speed.

I quit riding from 2011-2015 and when I started again, so many things were better. How? I don't know. Maybe my brain worked on it during the off-time, maybe I was just more relaxed (re-starting with a TTR-230 and just "riding"). I just know that when I came back, I was standing a lot more, using the clutch and brake naturally, not gripping with my arms, and so forth.

After a year, I started on a keto diet, getting off my high carb crappy diet, and ZOOKS!!!! The difference was astonishing. I'm gonna post this video so you can see where I'm at now. Keep in mind here, I'm late-57 years old, never was that fast, have a lot of bad MX habits due to trail riding, but, frankly, I'm pretty happy. I can chase my 15 year old around on the track for a full practice session with just one or two quick breathers after I push really hard, but I recover fast- w/in a straight away.

These days, I do 20 minutes of elliptical, planks, push-ups, hanging Pikes, single cable pull-downs that I stole from an Eli video, squats with weights, kick boxing, foot to foot shifting, and just all kind of balance and leg-oriented stuff that just makes me move.

Unfortunately, I didn't plan all this stuff and then get there, so I don't know how much help this is. But I DID get a lot better, so it can be done.

(At 6:16, I pull off to find my son and get some video of him)

https://youtu.be/Q9GtHpX0_w0
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