The Dutch Problem - well the Problem Everywhere.

#434
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1913
Joined
3/23/2017
Location
DE
2/26/2019 10:13pm
wey wrote:
The problems have nothing to with sounds. 9 out of 10 its just that one guy or woman that keeps crying and complaining. And somehow he/she...
The problems have nothing to with sounds. 9 out of 10 its just that one guy or woman that keeps crying and complaining. And somehow he/she wins over the majority that does like it or not bother about it. And because
its in the news people now you can win if you keep complaining. They even promoting here to complain if you see or hear something that is not in there norm. We just need to get rid of these whiners.

We just need to make sure that these people wanna move away as quickly as possible instead of the track. Its even common that the track is laying there for decades and that one guy or family just living there for a couple months directly start crying about it and even have a good shot at victory. We just need to man up and fight back and terrorize there houses and scare them as hell. We not gonna win this by legal long term activistisch. Just scare them and make them wanne move, fucking idiots.

And don't think these electric bikes are gonna help. We have to deal here with these real fucking whiners. They will whining about everything, they will find a new way. Isn't it sound than its dust or mud or these threes. Or these animals will suffer or they let them unique animal out there and say look its amazing all activities has to stop right away it will damaged nature. They just don't want these sports out there and don't give us. I mean look at your television and see these programs where people complaining about the smallest sounds an things, its just real sad.

Sissies are taking over this world in a hurry.

sorry if my English isn't right and don't be to serious, still think its the truth and hope they all dieWink
Haha, what a huge pile of BS..
9
JMX82
Posts
1591
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5/9/2013
Location
Hyllykallio, FI
2/26/2019 10:42pm
Like it or not I think Electric bikes will be the only way to save our sport. Environmentalists will be having hard time to get tracks closed when there is no noise that they can complain about.

Also in my opinion the tracks have to be made safer for less skilled riders.

In my area western Finland there are still lots of tracks but amount of riders has steadily decreased. You hardly ever see any 85cc riders at the tracks anymore. I can't blame the parents because insurance fees in Finland are stupid high and are only getting higher because amount of insurance paying riders is decreasing and injury rate is increasing. Faster and heavier bikes combined with bigger jumps and supercross style obstacles hasn't done any good for the sport safety. Jumps today are twice as bigger than they where back in 90's when I started riding and stock 450's are ridiculously fast compared to bikes from that era
3
1
2/27/2019 12:27am
The lack of tracks is an obvious issue, there were so many tracks when I grew up within an hour, now there are none. 68 million...
The lack of tracks is an obvious issue, there were so many tracks when I grew up within an hour, now there are none. 68 million on this island I guess it’s inevitable.

The line that really got me was that parents that ride don’t want their kids to take it up because of the danger, I don’t have kids yet but can relate.
Sidecar wrote:
Where in the U.K. do you live??? I have about 20 tracks with in an hour of me, I have 5-6 good practice tracks with in...
Where in the U.K. do you live??? I have about 20 tracks with in an hour of me, I have 5-6 good practice tracks with in 20 mins... VIP at Crick, Dodford Turn, Weedon, Daventry, moto45... the list goes on race only tracks like Badby, Long Buckby, Wroxton, Toddington, Foxhills, Hawkstone, all not too far away... The U.K. is great for moto at the moment, there must have been over 300 riders at Wroxton on Sunday, 85s to vets all full line ups... hell we get 30 sidecars at most ACU meetings now... I’m not seeing this decline, took my son to VIP between Christmas and new year and there were probably 200 bikes, they were turning people away... and look at the size of the crowd at Hawkstone a couple of weeks ago... thousands there at £30 a time, the most people I have ever seen at the Telford show on the Saturday, massive entry at Weston last year, Le Touquet had 1200 bikes plus quads and youth races with over 500,000 spectators... the U.K. arenacross sold out most nights, Birmingham was packed both nights I’ve been around moto for over 40 years and it’s never been so good around here...
Essex, may as well be London, every inch of space that can be built on is being built on. Don’t think there are any tracks that I know of in Essex now, closest one is Wildtracks.
Cortami79
Posts
1974
Joined
1/11/2016
Location
NL
2/27/2019 1:31am Edited Date/Time 2/27/2019 1:31am
Most of the times, the problem with most tracks is not the complainers, it's the lack of people with the right knowledge about permits and licences to get for the tracks to be able to ride. At my local track (Axel, where the first Dutch Masters is, they talked about it in the video) we were very lucky to have people with the right knowledge and contacts to get decent licences to operate a track. That, in combination with collaborations with other parties that support our local city is the reason we're pretty widely accepted in the community. For example, we work together with some schools, other sport clubs like cycling clubs and even the army practices at our property.

Our location is even besides a golf club full of rich retired people and so far we have good connections with them. Sometimes you have to give in a little. For example, they have 2 games a year, those days our track is closed to respect that event.

You will always have complainers ofcourse. But the biggest thing is having someone who knows the legal rules/laws AND having the right contacts to get agreements on paper. I know for example that there was a track that held the MXON/GP's without having the proper licences on paper. Not that they don't WANT to have these papers, but you really need someone that is a good talker and knows how much power you can have with the right knowledge
2

The Shop

kaptkaos
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1087
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11/17/2015
Location
Miami, FL, USA
2/27/2019 7:55am
JMX82 wrote:
Like it or not I think Electric bikes will be the only way to save our sport. Environmentalists will be having hard time to get tracks...
Like it or not I think Electric bikes will be the only way to save our sport. Environmentalists will be having hard time to get tracks closed when there is no noise that they can complain about.

Also in my opinion the tracks have to be made safer for less skilled riders.

In my area western Finland there are still lots of tracks but amount of riders has steadily decreased. You hardly ever see any 85cc riders at the tracks anymore. I can't blame the parents because insurance fees in Finland are stupid high and are only getting higher because amount of insurance paying riders is decreasing and injury rate is increasing. Faster and heavier bikes combined with bigger jumps and supercross style obstacles hasn't done any good for the sport safety. Jumps today are twice as bigger than they where back in 90's when I started riding and stock 450's are ridiculously fast compared to bikes from that era
If you think the jumps are bigger now from when you started riding in the 90's, Imagine how I feel when I started riding in the late 70's!!!

We never really had landing jumps, only few doubles and the second was always smaller and well rounded. The 2 strokes didnt chase you down and impale you as bad either.
1
SmokinJoe439
Posts
2399
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3/7/2012
Location
Renton, WA, USA
2/27/2019 8:47am
You guys who keep banging on about electric bikes and no noise will stop environmental groups. I guess you haven't never heard of erosion because that's what they will attack us on.

They actually hate mountain bikers too because of trails which cause erosion and water run off.

That's one of the biggest issues they attack us here on in my state of Washington. Erosion causes water run off which causes sediments in the streams and rivers. Which kills salmon which kills the orca whales.
2
2/27/2019 11:05am
I live near an airfield where a stunt pilot is based out of and he practices a fair amount for hours on end and sometimes with other planes in tandem. Those things are extra loud compared to regular single engine planes and I always wonder how they get away with the noise and doing loops, twists, stalls and tumbling from the stall only to gather it up at last moment over the top of many farm houses and within earshot of a few different towns in the immediate area. Need to look into their exemptions maybe?
Alex the great
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7/19/2020
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Thousand Oaks, CA, USA
9/29/2020 2:05pm
Humans were smart enough at one time to extract a liquid containing hydrocarbons from rock strata. Then, we engineered a dirt bike and learned how to ride them. Some of us fast. Today we are dumb and I hate to think about future generations. Two wheels with an electric motor is not a dirt bike. experiment yes but not a dirt bike. The real and only problem is there are too many people on the planet concentrated in small areas and most of them are a bunch of p-cats!
1
2
9/29/2020 4:24pm
Humans were smart enough at one time to extract a liquid containing hydrocarbons from rock strata. Then, we engineered a dirt bike and learned how to...
Humans were smart enough at one time to extract a liquid containing hydrocarbons from rock strata. Then, we engineered a dirt bike and learned how to ride them. Some of us fast. Today we are dumb and I hate to think about future generations. Two wheels with an electric motor is not a dirt bike. experiment yes but not a dirt bike. The real and only problem is there are too many people on the planet concentrated in small areas and most of them are a bunch of p-cats!
Yep nail on the head. We peaked in the early 2000’s and we are on a rapid decline of living standards.
1
9/30/2020 1:29am
There is a small track here in the Netherlands and their is one guy who is having noise complaints.
The track is right at the end of a military air base runway. And the guy lives 1 mile away. Sad
D_L118
Posts
490
Joined
7/3/2008
Location
Ghent, BE
9/30/2020 3:37am
Another big problem will be the lack of volunteers.
In Belgium most races are held by clubs who are driven by volunteers. Problem is it’s getting harder and harder to find those volunteers. And the ones who are volunteering are mostly old retired people...
Add the fact that most riders rather bitch and whine then actually doing something to improve the races or local track... I hate to be negative , butt the way how the sport has changed here the last 10-15 years, it doesn’t look very promising.
3
PJRAUS
Posts
1531
Joined
5/28/2016
Location
AU
9/30/2020 3:53am
cmotodad wrote:
Being in So Cal, we see the same problems with tracks closing, multiple classes of riders on the track at the same time and the general...
Being in So Cal, we see the same problems with tracks closing, multiple classes of riders on the track at the same time and the general public not being aware of the sport. In California, we have multiple agencies trying to close public riding areas and private tracks too. Besides teaching young riders track etiquette and safety,I feel tracks need to be more responsible with timed practices set according to ability. We, as riders, need to be willing to go out and help each track flag dangerous parts of the track if flaggers are not present .It;s very obvious separate practices are for everyone's safety and worth the inconvenience. It's time for us riders to step up and do what we can to help preserve the sport we love and enjoy.
I get what you are saying, but you dont need flaggers, just one person with an elevated viewpoint, a point from which that person can see the whole track.
That person can then hit the remote control on switch for vivid flashing warning lights where a flagger would normally be stationed.
It is piss easy and ridiculously cheap to set up a remote control warning light system.
The remote switches and remote controls can be bought on ebay for bugger all...cheap but highly visible flashing warning lights on Ebay also..cheap as shit solar panels that keep second hand car batteries charged to power each station...
Not setting up a warning light system at your track equates to a combination of pure ignorance and laziness..
2
cloud41
Posts
290
Joined
8/28/2020
Location
Chicago, IL, USA
Fantasy
9/30/2020 4:39am Edited Date/Time 9/30/2020 4:45am
I blame the technology on today’s bikes for increasing bike prices. The cost of riding and racing is getting expensive, and people are finding other hobbies (mostly cycling/mtb) to fill the gap. Tons of moto guys who used to ride multiple times a week ride every other week, or month, or quarter, and cycle/mtb in between. There are less people at the track, way less people at the races, and a lot of tracks that don’t open and prep like they used to. Electric bikes to save the day? Nope - they are even more expensive. I don’t even want to know how long those last and what it costs to fix them. Bye bye to being able to work on your motor.
1
Skerby
Posts
1282
Joined
4/9/2013
Location
Mayes County, OK, USA
9/30/2020 12:36pm
You guys who keep banging on about electric bikes and no noise will stop environmental groups. I guess you haven't never heard of erosion because that's...
You guys who keep banging on about electric bikes and no noise will stop environmental groups. I guess you haven't never heard of erosion because that's what they will attack us on.

They actually hate mountain bikers too because of trails which cause erosion and water run off.

That's one of the biggest issues they attack us here on in my state of Washington. Erosion causes water run off which causes sediments in the streams and rivers. Which kills salmon which kills the orca whales.
I wish it was at least true that moto/mtb trails had an impact on river ecology. Sadly it is basically impossible to prove, but doesnt seem to matter as long as it can theoretically impact the environment.
Alex the great
Posts
132
Joined
7/19/2020
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA, USA
9/30/2020 1:38pm
You guys who keep banging on about electric bikes and no noise will stop environmental groups. I guess you haven't never heard of erosion because that's...
You guys who keep banging on about electric bikes and no noise will stop environmental groups. I guess you haven't never heard of erosion because that's what they will attack us on.

They actually hate mountain bikers too because of trails which cause erosion and water run off.

That's one of the biggest issues they attack us here on in my state of Washington. Erosion causes water run off which causes sediments in the streams and rivers. Which kills salmon which kills the orca whales.
Skerby wrote:
I wish it was at least true that moto/mtb trails had an impact on river ecology. Sadly it is basically impossible to prove, but doesnt seem...
I wish it was at least true that moto/mtb trails had an impact on river ecology. Sadly it is basically impossible to prove, but doesnt seem to matter as long as it can theoretically impact the environment.
Your comments just reminded me of another item I have a lot of issues with. The word "trails" just pushed a button. Land management tells us that we have X amount of acres to ride in at a specific location, but what they failed to make clear was that we really don't get all the allocated acres because one has to calculate the acreage based only on the length of the trail by its width and that doesn't equal the acreage of the park. Don't tell us we have 1000 acres when it is really only 100 when calculated on useable trail, and wildlife uses these defined trails and whatever you do don't touch the PCT or you will go to jail. Never mind that the fires are burning it down. If a bike Baaarps in the woods and there is no one there to hear it did it Baaarp?
1
chuckie108
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831
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Location
Mira Loma, CA, USA
9/30/2020 5:45pm
The reality is, there is a percentage of people on this planet who are miserable, and they are bound and determined to make sure everyone shares in their misery. So therefore, anything positive and enjoyable must be stopped one way or the other. They hide behind "good causes" like the "environment", "Global Warming", "concussions","noise pollution","air quality", and many other political causes that I wont mention here for fear of the vital thought/political police. That's not to say some of these things aren't real issues, they are, and they need addressing. It's just these particular people use these real issues as clubs to stop activities that are not only not harmful, but generally quite positive to the population as a whole. An example would be our green sticker program in CA. Dirtbikes have zero impact on the air quality in CA, yet they aren't legal to ride off road because of "air pollution". But they don't care, as long as the Karen's of the world get to fulfill their nanny state fantasies. The crux of the issue is, they are motivated, generally organized, and unified in groups. The rest of us on the other hand, tend to be freedom minded and have a default setting of "live and let live". Again, I'll skip the current political examples. Bottom line- until we can find a way to get as organized, motivated, unified, and start pushing back on these land issues, we're gonna continue to lose. E-MX bikes will only reduce one of their "reasons", but it wont change their motives or their actions.
5
roninho
Posts
1621
Joined
7/14/2015
Location
IT
10/1/2020 12:57am
cloud41 wrote:
I blame the technology on today’s bikes for increasing bike prices. The cost of riding and racing is getting expensive, and people are finding other hobbies...
I blame the technology on today’s bikes for increasing bike prices. The cost of riding and racing is getting expensive, and people are finding other hobbies (mostly cycling/mtb) to fill the gap. Tons of moto guys who used to ride multiple times a week ride every other week, or month, or quarter, and cycle/mtb in between. There are less people at the track, way less people at the races, and a lot of tracks that don’t open and prep like they used to. Electric bikes to save the day? Nope - they are even more expensive. I don’t even want to know how long those last and what it costs to fix them. Bye bye to being able to work on your motor.
Costs certainly have an effect. Essentially there is no standardised class with only entry level bike (as in a 25hp-ish engine with simple frame). Not cheap chinese bikes, but simple but quality product.

e-bikes won't be cheap anytime soon, and i dont think the oems have a mindset to create a standardised lower operating costs class to begin with anyway.

The one positive effect i expect from e-bikes is that it opens up a lot of high populated areas where noise issues have killed of tracks.
The Netherlands have a bunch of circuits (i think 75-100), but in the areas where 70% of our population resides we have i think 2. With e-bikes i would expect that in a year or 10 we have a bunch in those areas as well, which should increase our number of riders substantially.
JamesReed
Posts
102
Joined
9/19/2020
Location
Watsonville, CA, USA
10/1/2020 1:19am Edited Date/Time 10/1/2020 1:22am
Funny you mention huge problems for the Dutch, and neglect the fact that the Netherlands will be the first country on earth swallowed up by the sea if the global sea levels keep rising.

And those crazy Dutch, even crazier than Californians... Gas cars will be illegal to sell in Amsterdamn after 2030.
1
teamddr
Posts
579
Joined
1/29/2019
Location
IE
10/1/2020 1:49am
I see three problems here

1. Noise Some self centred idiot buys a house near a track an then complains about the noise negating the fact the track was there before him.

2 insurance

3. The pussifacation of the younger generation, “better to stay on my iPhone or PS4 than get dirty and possibly hurt myself “

2
10/1/2020 3:30am
JamesReed wrote:
Funny you mention huge problems for the Dutch, and neglect the fact that the Netherlands will be the first country on earth swallowed up by the...
Funny you mention huge problems for the Dutch, and neglect the fact that the Netherlands will be the first country on earth swallowed up by the sea if the global sea levels keep rising.

And those crazy Dutch, even crazier than Californians... Gas cars will be illegal to sell in Amsterdamn after 2030.
Nope its Kiribati bud.
10/1/2020 4:36am
chuckie108 wrote:
The reality is, there is a percentage of people on this planet who are miserable, and they are bound and determined to make sure everyone shares...
The reality is, there is a percentage of people on this planet who are miserable, and they are bound and determined to make sure everyone shares in their misery. So therefore, anything positive and enjoyable must be stopped one way or the other. They hide behind "good causes" like the "environment", "Global Warming", "concussions","noise pollution","air quality", and many other political causes that I wont mention here for fear of the vital thought/political police. That's not to say some of these things aren't real issues, they are, and they need addressing. It's just these particular people use these real issues as clubs to stop activities that are not only not harmful, but generally quite positive to the population as a whole. An example would be our green sticker program in CA. Dirtbikes have zero impact on the air quality in CA, yet they aren't legal to ride off road because of "air pollution". But they don't care, as long as the Karen's of the world get to fulfill their nanny state fantasies. The crux of the issue is, they are motivated, generally organized, and unified in groups. The rest of us on the other hand, tend to be freedom minded and have a default setting of "live and let live". Again, I'll skip the current political examples. Bottom line- until we can find a way to get as organized, motivated, unified, and start pushing back on these land issues, we're gonna continue to lose. E-MX bikes will only reduce one of their "reasons", but it wont change their motives or their actions.
AMA?
Eddy_V
Posts
55
Joined
10/1/2019
Location
NL
10/1/2020 4:56am
Jrewing wrote:
Fucking human overload. 99% of the human race expires tomorrow there's still 85 million people left.
If that are only mx riders left, the world would be much easier😀

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