Cooper Webb rumors

Sir Roostsalot 2/20/2019 8:28pm
2/20/2019 8:28pm
After reading this thread on VitalMX, Yamaha is gonna throw up a huge protest, AMA will measure the frames to see that all is well. Remember something similiar from years ago?
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Derek Harris 2/20/2019 8:42pm
2/20/2019 8:42pm
If the OEMS want to cheat - you wont catch them - at least not the AMA.

In a different avenue - WP group (who makes the frames) said they were building custom frames for herlings and caroli - and that they liked steel because they could make a new design frame start to finish in 2 weeks for moto gp, or MXGP

or of course that could apply to sx.

The changes could be so minor in cross section and profile - that it would be within measurable tolerance but make a 10-15 percent change.

But the measured dimensions would all be the same externally...

Just accept the fact the factories have and will do things that a privateer never could.
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Shawn142
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Shawn142 2/20/2019 8:52pm
2/20/2019 8:52pm
See I have trouble believing rumors that assume a person or group is more intelligent and perspective than they appear. This is why to me massive government conspiracies are impossible because most of our elected officials are dumb as a box of rocks. The same goes for the AMA who once allowed a TM to race a national because an AMA official mistook it for a KTM. You can't convince me ANYONE at the AMA can pick out the differences between a 350 and 450 KTM frame.
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Speeder757
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Speeder757 2/20/2019 9:06pm
2/20/2019 9:06pm Edited Date/Time 2/20/2019 9:09pm
ML512 wrote:
The 450 engine won’t bolt into the 350 chassis. The frame Cooper uses is modified but it’s within the rules.
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ProKawi24
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ProKawi24 2/20/2019 9:16pm
2/20/2019 9:16pm
350 frame or not, Webb put on a clinic. I've re-watched that race a few times and while I'm a team green lifer...I can't deny that he was in the zone and earned that victory. His riding was "Carmichael-ish". It's hard to explain but I can tell when a rider is 100% on point...it's almost like they're physically pulling the bike through the air and the corners to go faster. Roczen was fast and smooth, but Webb was charging and wanted that win more than anyone.
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blockhead17
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blockhead17 2/20/2019 11:46pm
2/20/2019 11:46pm
Where is boomslang when we need him?
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TVMX867
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TVMX867 2/21/2019 2:14am
2/21/2019 2:14am
ProKawi24 wrote:
350 frame or not, Webb put on a clinic. I've re-watched that race a few times and while I'm a team green lifer...I can't deny that...
350 frame or not, Webb put on a clinic. I've re-watched that race a few times and while I'm a team green lifer...I can't deny that he was in the zone and earned that victory. His riding was "Carmichael-ish". It's hard to explain but I can tell when a rider is 100% on point...it's almost like they're physically pulling the bike through the air and the corners to go faster. Roczen was fast and smooth, but Webb was charging and wanted that win more than anyone.
I agree with the Carmicheal-ish statement. It's still no RC, or JS intensity/dominance, but it's a glimpse.

RC and JS have come from the back of the pack to 1st too many times to count. After 10 long seasons of racing the 450 class JS did this to the current "faster paced" era of racers in 2014, then outscrubbed a tripple to pass RV, and put a comfortable lead between them before checkers.

Webb just has to gain a little more "sauce" and he'll be the next dominate guy. I've been a Webb fan since he was an amateur, always in the shadow of golden boy/baby Jesus. (To AC's credit he never let his Baby Jesus status inflate his ego, which made me a fan as well)
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peltier626 2/21/2019 6:44am
2/21/2019 6:44am
blockhead17 wrote:
Where is boomslang when we need him?
Gone with the wind, or maybe a different user name.
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drt410
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drt410 2/21/2019 7:34am
2/21/2019 7:34am
Shawn142 wrote:
See I have trouble believing rumors that assume a person or group is more intelligent and perspective than they appear. This is why to me massive...
See I have trouble believing rumors that assume a person or group is more intelligent and perspective than they appear. This is why to me massive government conspiracies are impossible because most of our elected officials are dumb as a box of rocks. The same goes for the AMA who once allowed a TM to race a national because an AMA official mistook it for a KTM. You can't convince me ANYONE at the AMA can pick out the differences between a 350 and 450 KTM frame.
More people need to think this way. As someone who worked for the gov-Marines, no way IN HELL could things like sept 11th be pulled off without massive leaks, people coming fwd saying they were involved since it would take thousands of ppl to pull off, and not 1 wikileak about anyyyything? Plus youd have to ask thousands of ppl to participate, wheres the ppl that were asked but said no? Not even they came fwd n said anything... The gov has 0 chance to pull off something of that scale flawlessly with no mistakes, not 1 leaked document, and not 1 single person coming fwd. Its actually funny to ppl that worked for the gov when we hear how ppl think the govt is this flawless, magical, capable of anything done to perfection, shady organization, made up of thousands of robot people with no conscience.... The ppl in the gov are regular ppl, but ppll think theyre all ruthless killers lol.
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crf250pilot
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crf250pilot 2/21/2019 8:17am
2/21/2019 8:17am Edited Date/Time 2/21/2019 8:22am
S.A. Weave wrote:
If they did break a rule on raceday can someone protest or something 5 days later?
Of course you can do anything you want as long as you're on a Monster Energy team.
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Racer111
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Racer111 2/21/2019 10:57am
2/21/2019 10:57am
ML512 wrote:
The 450 engine won’t bolt into the 350 chassis. The frame Cooper uses is modified but it’s within the rules.
zehn wrote:
In what way is it modified?
That’s what I want to know.
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Sierra Ranger
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Sierra Ranger 2/21/2019 11:02am
2/21/2019 11:02am
Shawn142 wrote:
See I have trouble believing rumors that assume a person or group is more intelligent and perspective than they appear. This is why to me massive...
See I have trouble believing rumors that assume a person or group is more intelligent and perspective than they appear. This is why to me massive government conspiracies are impossible because most of our elected officials are dumb as a box of rocks. The same goes for the AMA who once allowed a TM to race a national because an AMA official mistook it for a KTM. You can't convince me ANYONE at the AMA can pick out the differences between a 350 and 450 KTM frame.
drt410 wrote:
More people need to think this way. As someone who worked for the gov-Marines, no way IN HELL could things like sept 11th be pulled off...
More people need to think this way. As someone who worked for the gov-Marines, no way IN HELL could things like sept 11th be pulled off without massive leaks, people coming fwd saying they were involved since it would take thousands of ppl to pull off, and not 1 wikileak about anyyyything? Plus youd have to ask thousands of ppl to participate, wheres the ppl that were asked but said no? Not even they came fwd n said anything... The gov has 0 chance to pull off something of that scale flawlessly with no mistakes, not 1 leaked document, and not 1 single person coming fwd. Its actually funny to ppl that worked for the gov when we hear how ppl think the govt is this flawless, magical, capable of anything done to perfection, shady organization, made up of thousands of robot people with no conscience.... The ppl in the gov are regular ppl, but ppll think theyre all ruthless killers lol.
Ever hear of the Manhattan Project?- thousands of people, history changing program- kept entirely secret.
Not to go down the rabbit hole, but Saudi Arabia's involvement in 9/11 is pretty much mainstream knowledge, even mentioned by members of Congress on the Capitol floor. The fact they used it to attack Iraq is a historical crime on humanity.
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peelout
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peelout 2/21/2019 11:28am
2/21/2019 11:28am
drt410 wrote:
Also... why would Webb use an engine that has 0 factory equipment experience. The 250,450 have years and years of factory race bike r&d, the 350...
Also... why would Webb use an engine that has 0 factory equipment experience. The 250,450 have years and years of factory race bike r&d, the 350 has none. That wouldnt be a good idea as theyd be starting from square one. Also isnt it legal anyways to use less displacement or do you mean using an engine in a bike it doesnt come in? Why if the 350 is legal wouldnt he just use one?
your post is so infuriating it makes me want to buy a KTM dealership so i can refuse service in the event you ever visit my store
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PRM31
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PRM31 2/21/2019 11:43am
2/21/2019 11:43am Edited Date/Time 2/21/2019 11:43am
A frame on a dirt bike to conspiracy theories. Impressive range of subjects even for Vital.

Back to the frame. What sequence of testing events would lead them to say, "you should try the 350 frame"? I'm still waiting to hear where this rumor started...
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Motoxdoc
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Motoxdoc 2/21/2019 11:58am
2/21/2019 11:58am
Would it be a rule breaker if you used production parts from 2 different bikes? It seems like that should be ok...I mean as long as they are production parts and available to the public...right?
Shawn142
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Shawn142 2/21/2019 12:33pm
2/21/2019 12:33pm
Shawn142 wrote:
See I have trouble believing rumors that assume a person or group is more intelligent and perspective than they appear. This is why to me massive...
See I have trouble believing rumors that assume a person or group is more intelligent and perspective than they appear. This is why to me massive government conspiracies are impossible because most of our elected officials are dumb as a box of rocks. The same goes for the AMA who once allowed a TM to race a national because an AMA official mistook it for a KTM. You can't convince me ANYONE at the AMA can pick out the differences between a 350 and 450 KTM frame.
drt410 wrote:
More people need to think this way. As someone who worked for the gov-Marines, no way IN HELL could things like sept 11th be pulled off...
More people need to think this way. As someone who worked for the gov-Marines, no way IN HELL could things like sept 11th be pulled off without massive leaks, people coming fwd saying they were involved since it would take thousands of ppl to pull off, and not 1 wikileak about anyyyything? Plus youd have to ask thousands of ppl to participate, wheres the ppl that were asked but said no? Not even they came fwd n said anything... The gov has 0 chance to pull off something of that scale flawlessly with no mistakes, not 1 leaked document, and not 1 single person coming fwd. Its actually funny to ppl that worked for the gov when we hear how ppl think the govt is this flawless, magical, capable of anything done to perfection, shady organization, made up of thousands of robot people with no conscience.... The ppl in the gov are regular ppl, but ppll think theyre all ruthless killers lol.
Sierra Ranger wrote:
Ever hear of the Manhattan Project?- thousands of people, history changing program- kept entirely secret. Not to go down the rabbit hole, but Saudi Arabia's involvement...
Ever hear of the Manhattan Project?- thousands of people, history changing program- kept entirely secret.
Not to go down the rabbit hole, but Saudi Arabia's involvement in 9/11 is pretty much mainstream knowledge, even mentioned by members of Congress on the Capitol floor. The fact they used it to attack Iraq is a historical crime on humanity.
The Manhattan Project and other things like it were done in a time where it was possible to seclude yourself, and it's not like it was secret for long. The program started in 1938 and was made public in 1945. Now we know where "secret" military bases are because soldiers log runs to their Strava app with their smart phones.
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psg119
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psg119 2/21/2019 1:54pm
2/21/2019 1:54pm
ML512 wrote:
The 450 engine won’t bolt into the 350 chassis. The frame Cooper uses is modified but it’s within the rules.
zehn wrote:
In what way is it modified?
Racer111 wrote:
That’s what I want to know.
He posted a photo of it
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Spergen
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Spergen 2/21/2019 2:03pm
2/21/2019 2:03pm
Derek Harris wrote:
If the OEMS want to cheat - you wont catch them - at least not the AMA. In a different avenue - WP group (who makes...
If the OEMS want to cheat - you wont catch them - at least not the AMA.

In a different avenue - WP group (who makes the frames) said they were building custom frames for herlings and caroli - and that they liked steel because they could make a new design frame start to finish in 2 weeks for moto gp, or MXGP

or of course that could apply to sx.

The changes could be so minor in cross section and profile - that it would be within measurable tolerance but make a 10-15 percent change.

But the measured dimensions would all be the same externally...

Just accept the fact the factories have and will do things that a privateer never could.
Toyota thought that a good few years back in WRC, didn't work out too good for them in the end ?

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daemon616
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daemon616 2/21/2019 2:10pm
2/21/2019 2:10pm
ML512 dropping knowledge bombs as usual!
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Kawi15
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Kawi15 2/21/2019 2:24pm
2/21/2019 2:24pm
It seems to me that every bike goes through inspection prior to practice. I am thinking that if a bike can make it through that inspection then its good to go. Anything after that is just a rumor and or hearsay. Not to say that inspectors are perfect, but that is their system to enforce the rules. Effective or not, I think we live with the results and no complaining.
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GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 2/21/2019 2:33pm
2/21/2019 2:33pm
drt410 wrote:
Also... why would Webb use an engine that has 0 factory equipment experience. The 250,450 have years and years of factory race bike r&d, the 350...
Also... why would Webb use an engine that has 0 factory equipment experience. The 250,450 have years and years of factory race bike r&d, the 350 has none. That wouldnt be a good idea as theyd be starting from square one. Also isnt it legal anyways to use less displacement or do you mean using an engine in a bike it doesnt come in? Why if the 350 is legal wouldnt he just use one?
Spagina767 wrote:
Did you read the post???
He doesn't have time to read, too busy posting
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TriRacer27 2/21/2019 2:40pm
2/21/2019 2:40pm
So they can add material but not remove any, and the only enforcement mechanism is a guy with a tape measure and a bathroom scale?

Yeah, there's tons of ways to cheat. They can use different material thickness while retaining OD, different weld angles, bracing (internal & external), material layering, or even use different paint techniques to cover up strategic notching.
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ByronFRiday 2/21/2019 2:41pm
2/21/2019 2:41pm
Remember this? This showcased the kid's real talent.

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dura max
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dura max 2/21/2019 2:43pm
2/21/2019 2:43pm
Did Jussie Smollett start this rumor?Shocked
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mattyhamz2 2/21/2019 2:48pm
2/21/2019 2:48pm
ByronFRiday wrote:
Remember this? This showcased the kid's real talent.

Brings a tear to my eye still.
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bigk218
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bigk218 2/21/2019 3:17pm
2/21/2019 3:17pm
dura max wrote:
Did Jussie Smollett start this rumor?Shocked
I saw a pic of him on vital while he was sitting in court today
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KurtJ99
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KurtJ99 2/21/2019 3:20pm
2/21/2019 3:20pm
FUD (fear uncertainty doubt) being leveled at the front runner. If he was where everyone thought he would be 10-15th then nobody would care to start a rumor.
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Underground 2/21/2019 3:34pm
2/21/2019 3:34pm
drt410 wrote:
Also... why would Webb use an engine that has 0 factory equipment experience. The 250,450 have years and years of factory race bike r&d, the 350...
Also... why would Webb use an engine that has 0 factory equipment experience. The 250,450 have years and years of factory race bike r&d, the 350 has none. That wouldnt be a good idea as theyd be starting from square one. Also isnt it legal anyways to use less displacement or do you mean using an engine in a bike it doesnt come in? Why if the 350 is legal wouldnt he just use one?
peelout wrote:
your post is so infuriating it makes me want to buy a KTM dealership so i can refuse service in the event you ever visit my...
your post is so infuriating it makes me want to buy a KTM dealership so i can refuse service in the event you ever visit my store
loose bolts bro
mattyhamz2 2/21/2019 3:40pm
2/21/2019 3:40pm
drt410 wrote:
Also... why would Webb use an engine that has 0 factory equipment experience. The 250,450 have years and years of factory race bike r&d, the 350...
Also... why would Webb use an engine that has 0 factory equipment experience. The 250,450 have years and years of factory race bike r&d, the 350 has none. That wouldnt be a good idea as theyd be starting from square one. Also isnt it legal anyways to use less displacement or do you mean using an engine in a bike it doesnt come in? Why if the 350 is legal wouldnt he just use one?
peelout wrote:
your post is so infuriating it makes me want to buy a KTM dealership so i can refuse service in the event you ever visit my...
your post is so infuriating it makes me want to buy a KTM dealership so i can refuse service in the event you ever visit my store
Underground wrote:
loose bolts bro
Peely never has a problem with his sprocket bolts.
2
Scull79
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Scull79 2/21/2019 5:10pm
2/21/2019 5:10pm
I think what the OP really meant to say is that according to vital, Webb was never supposed to win on the 450 let alone win 4. Therefore he must be cheating.
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