Been hearing some rumors

drt410
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drt410 2/11/2019 5:06pm
2/11/2019 5:06pm Edited Date/Time 2/11/2019 5:18pm
Falcon wrote:
From what I understand, the 125 motor fits into the 2019 RM-Z250 frame with very little modification. Japanese engineers do not fly to America for nothing...
From what I understand, the 125 motor fits into the 2019 RM-Z250 frame with very little modification.

Japanese engineers do not fly to America for nothing.

Suzuki is up to something, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they will ever sell this bike. It's called R&D. Sometimes it results in a new product and sometimes it gets shelved.
drt410 wrote:
Hmmm so them being the ONLY alum frame 4 stroke with a centerport exhaust and its also ONLY on the new 250f but not the NEW...
Hmmm so them being the ONLY alum frame 4 stroke with a centerport exhaust and its also ONLY on the new 250f but not the NEW 450f now makes perfect sense....... if you were going to plug a 125 engine into the bike and had to fit a 2 stroke pipe.

I was confused why honda/yamaha etc use the same frames for 250/450 and Suzuki had just came out with an all new 450 but still designed a whole new frame for their 250 which has the centerport, when their new 450 doesnt.

If you were going to be plugging a 125 into the frame this is exactly the extra steps you would take, that are unnessecary otherwise because you could just use your brand new 450 frame. This is all finally starting to make a whole lotta sense why they did that..
Falcon wrote:
;) Just brainstorming here; I truly do not have any insider info other than speculation, but you could build a 125-250F-250T with that single frame. Different...
Wink

Just brainstorming here; I truly do not have any insider info other than speculation, but you could build a 125-250F-250T with that single frame. Different spring rates and triple clamps, as well as graft the eccentric swingarm pivot over from the 450 and you'd have a fully functional plug-and-play assembly line, like they do in the automotive world.

Of course, you'd need an all-new factory in Japan to do that.
https://auto.ndtv.com/news/suzukis-new-japan-plant-nears-completion-187… Whistling
With that centerport 250f frame you could build a 125, 250, 250f, and 450f. Most 250f/450f share the same frames.

I wonder if the 2020 450f will get updated again with the 250f frame and get a centerport head. Then if theyre going to update it again... Honda added elec start a year after new model then got rid of kicker spot on case 2 yrs later... if theyll finally do e start. Either way itd be smart for them to build 4 bikes off this 1 frame. At a minimum share between the 250f-450f and the newer 250f frame is better so use that.

If they get back in the 2 stroke game they need to do what yamaha did n throw a 65 head on the 85 cases n build a 65 bike. Not having a path from jr50-rm85 means you have to try to steal riders away from whatever bike they ride for a 65. If you have riders on 50’s its better to just retain them vs lose them then try to win them back. Horrible business model. Retain those kids all the way up. Yamahas best move in a longgggg time was not the backwards head it was the yz65. Retains riders on the brand thru their youth. Plus mini bikes are half the market lots of people ride when theyre young but then give it up. Id love to see Suzuki take the shit serious again they have a beautiful bike that handles great just needs a diet.
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RCF
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RCF 2/11/2019 5:14pm
2/11/2019 5:14pm
decano51 wrote:
Suzuki two stroke market would be more popular then you think. Considering they had the best two stroke through the early 2000 era. I think a...
Suzuki two stroke market would be more popular then you think.

Considering they had the best two stroke through the early 2000 era. I think a chase and plastic update is all them bikes need.

What has KTM changed on there bikes in the past 10 years?
KTM have been playing catch up. Took them how long before they got a dam linkage on them.
No doubt the best looking 2 stroke. But I’d take a YZ250 over a KTM any day.

And if RM put out a 2 stroke... they would sell like hot cakes. Why? Because there a newer bike on the market, price and the good reputation the older two strokes had.
KHI Guy wrote:
I still disagree. I think the 250 would sell ok in relation to all 250 2 stroke units sold, but I don't think the 250 2...
I still disagree. I think the 250 would sell ok in relation to all 250 2 stroke units sold, but I don't think the 250 2 stroke market would be big enough to support a resurgence of OEM interest. Just because the Vital brain trust says so doesn't make it reality.

A rebranded RM125 with BNG would not sell. It wasn't as good as the YZ was back when it was discontinued, so there is no reason to think it would be better now. Most racers would buy the KTM, and the RM/YZ would fight over everyone else.

What has KTM done in the past 10 years? Their 125 engine! If your'e racing a 125 (which is what this thread is about), the engine is everything. Always has been, always will be.

I agree though, I personally would buy a YZ250 over a KTM for my personal needs. Then again, I am not lining up for a fictitious 250 2 stroke Supercross series.
decano51 wrote:
Doesn’t still answer what KTM have dont to improve there two stroke? The only thing they could improve, like mentioned was putting a linkage in. And...
Doesn’t still answer what KTM have dont to improve there two stroke?
The only thing they could improve, like mentioned was putting a linkage in.

And yes I’ve ridden both bikes. Personaly the KTM to a newer rider is going to pick it hands down and say it’s fast due to its bottom end.
But the YZ handles so much better, cheaper, easier to set up and have race ready and the power goes all the way through. It doesn’t fizzle out like the KTM.

That was off topic.
But if Suzuki where to ever put out two strokes. I think they would become more popular then there four stroke range.

And the RM250 was voted best bike of the motocross world in the area of two strokes.
And as well for Goose to say the best bike he’s worked on and easiest to have set up for a rider was that bike. That’s big words.
you're really Clueless the KTM has been changed a lot in the last 10 years, 4 different frames,changes in suspension and the current engine is totally new.
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Adam43
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Adam43 2/11/2019 6:25pm
2/11/2019 6:25pm
I was going to write about how this is a shortsighted project and not too many people will care, or buy.

That 250Fs were too good, and not enough people bought the old RM125 anyway.

But this afternoon I watched the 2000 Pontiac 125 Supercross. A packed stadium watching Pastrana battling with Tyler Evans on these great screaming little yellow bikes. Everything about it was more fun.

It was exactly one year before the 250F changed the sport fundamentally. And all I could think was that we fucking broke it, boys.

So bring back two strokes, bring back low cost racing, and bring back the RM125. Long may it reign.
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PRM31
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PRM31 2/11/2019 6:37pm
2/11/2019 6:37pm
I hope they do it, and I hope 125s become a viable alternative at the local level. Local racing needs more participants. More racers equals more bike and aftermarket sales and more fans at pro races. When bike sales were much larger in the early 80s they cost relatively less and did not have to compete with so many other things for an individuals disposable income. Now we have cell phones, satellite radio, computers, iPads, cable TV, more expensive cars, houses and more taxes. It all adds up. Racing needs to be less expensive and more convenient.
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Keith72
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Keith72 2/11/2019 6:45pm
2/11/2019 6:45pm
Buy a frame then pick the engine you want to put in it?
Harv379
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Harv379 2/11/2019 6:58pm
2/11/2019 6:58pm
Why wouldn't you guys who saw it go ask them about it or try to get a better look at least? Is it that scary?
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mwssquad827
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mwssquad827 2/11/2019 7:06pm
2/11/2019 7:06pm
I hope it’s true... I also believe they would sell.. the only reason I would like a updated frame is because of parts.. my RMs are beginning to be a pain in the ass for certain stuff.. if they do this they need IMO
1- no air fork
2- put a hydro clutch on it
3-balance the engine like the huskys/ktm To reduce vibration.
4- fix the clutch issues that they have..
5- dont price it like a 450
6- push push push amateur racing/grass roots racing( big contingency kicks)

mikec265
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mikec265 2/11/2019 7:14pm
2/11/2019 7:14pm
mwssquad827 wrote:
I hope it’s true... I also believe they would sell.. the only reason I would like a updated frame is because of parts.. my RMs are...
I hope it’s true... I also believe they would sell.. the only reason I would like a updated frame is because of parts.. my RMs are beginning to be a pain in the ass for certain stuff.. if they do this they need IMO
1- no air fork
2- put a hydro clutch on it
3-balance the engine like the huskys/ktm To reduce vibration.
4- fix the clutch issues that they have..
5- dont price it like a 450
6- push push push amateur racing/grass roots racing( big contingency kicks)

Even without all that. Just price it below the Yamaha.
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BAMX
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BAMX 2/11/2019 7:52pm
2/11/2019 7:52pm
mwssquad827 wrote:
I hope it’s true... I also believe they would sell.. the only reason I would like a updated frame is because of parts.. my RMs are...
I hope it’s true... I also believe they would sell.. the only reason I would like a updated frame is because of parts.. my RMs are beginning to be a pain in the ass for certain stuff.. if they do this they need IMO
1- no air fork
2- put a hydro clutch on it
3-balance the engine like the huskys/ktm To reduce vibration.
4- fix the clutch issues that they have..
5- dont price it like a 450
6- push push push amateur racing/grass roots racing( big contingency kicks)

mikec265 wrote:
Even without all that. Just price it below the Yamaha.
Just make the 06 with updated plastics and sell cheap. Adjust OEM parts prices to compete with aftermarket and make money selling parts.
Phillip_Lamb
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Phillip_Lamb 2/11/2019 8:07pm
2/11/2019 8:07pm
Press release or it doesnt matter
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Rotaholic
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Rotaholic 2/12/2019 1:04am
2/12/2019 1:04am
Bike in the background is a 450, hard to see the front one. The Japanese do some strange things, they’re runnning the 17 swing arm on the 19s works bikes.....
Fearo
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Fearo 2/12/2019 2:57am
2/12/2019 2:57am
If it really turns out to be a kit that's limited to their 'factory' amateurs, that makes absolutely no sense to me, unless we're talking extremely limited, say less than 5 bikes produced.

Why not recover a huge chunk of the R&D cost by making it available to the public? Especially if it fits in a 4-stroke chassis.

Yes the KTM is a great bike, probably still much better than this Suzuki, but these bikes would sell, there's no doubt in my mind about that.
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drt410
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drt410 2/12/2019 5:26am
2/12/2019 5:26am Edited Date/Time 2/12/2019 5:27am
Fearo wrote:
If it really turns out to be a kit that's limited to their 'factory' amateurs, that makes absolutely no sense to me, unless we're talking extremely...
If it really turns out to be a kit that's limited to their 'factory' amateurs, that makes absolutely no sense to me, unless we're talking extremely limited, say less than 5 bikes produced.

Why not recover a huge chunk of the R&D cost by making it available to the public? Especially if it fits in a 4-stroke chassis.

Yes the KTM is a great bike, probably still much better than this Suzuki, but these bikes would sell, there's no doubt in my mind about that.
Definitely. Soooo many people are asking, its crazy how hard headed theyre being about it. The people want 2 strokes, theyre buying 2 strokes, theyre saying they want 2 strokes, the 2 stroke themed races are huge hits.... build a damn 2 stroke. Honda, Kawi, Suzuki... Shit Honda doesnt even have an 85cc anymore what a mistake that was.
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brocster
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brocster 2/12/2019 5:47am
2/12/2019 5:47am
Good on Suzuki for exploring more options for a “tweener” without releasing a entire bike. You can bet that all other manufacturers ears stood up when they heard the concept and we can only hope that it got the wheels turning elswhere with some crafty altertanitives. Thanks for thinking outside the box Suzuki!

As someone else mentioned wouldn’t it be great to pick your brand
Pick your motor 125,150,2502T,2504T, 350, 450 options are endless with a plug and play frame
Pick your suspension for corresponding motor. Complete with offset triple clamps, links etc.

Once manufacturers are tooled up this could be a huge cost savings to them as the bulk of the bike would be one SKU. This little photo and test could eventually change the way we buy dirtbikes in the future. “Add to cart”...
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RTDRacing
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RTDRacing 2/12/2019 9:10am
2/12/2019 9:10am
This may have more steam than people think. Suzuki just announced over $8 Million in contingency money for racing.

Sounds to me like they are really getting back to pushing the grass roots of the sport and trying to get more people on board. There is a definite gap between the 85/105 class and the 250 class. A nice yellow 125 at a price point cheaper than a KTM would probably be a great fit for younger riders moving up in the sport.
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jeffro503
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jeffro503 2/12/2019 9:57am
2/12/2019 9:57am
brocster wrote:
Good on Suzuki for exploring more options for a “tweener” without releasing a entire bike. You can bet that all other manufacturers ears stood up when...
Good on Suzuki for exploring more options for a “tweener” without releasing a entire bike. You can bet that all other manufacturers ears stood up when they heard the concept and we can only hope that it got the wheels turning elswhere with some crafty altertanitives. Thanks for thinking outside the box Suzuki!

As someone else mentioned wouldn’t it be great to pick your brand
Pick your motor 125,150,2502T,2504T, 350, 450 options are endless with a plug and play frame
Pick your suspension for corresponding motor. Complete with offset triple clamps, links etc.

Once manufacturers are tooled up this could be a huge cost savings to them as the bulk of the bike would be one SKU. This little photo and test could eventually change the way we buy dirtbikes in the future. “Add to cart”...
That would be a dream come true. One rolling chassis , with a couple different sized motor's sitting on the bench , along with a extra set of suspension.....haha , that would be pretty damn awesome. A true " modular bike."
mattyhamz2 2/12/2019 11:11am
2/12/2019 11:11am
bw56 wrote:
My wife and I saw it too. The RM125 has the new generation frame. She snuck a picture as we drove past. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/02/11/324656/s1200_CCF18FBE_75CC_4419_94BE_999231BB6897.jpg[/img]
My wife and I saw it too. The RM125 has the new generation frame. She snuck a picture as we drove past.
FIREfish148 wrote:
ok, now we’re getting traction...
stillwelding wrote:
Where’s the expansion chamber? That bike stand looks Japanese.
The Wageman's were testing it. Saw a short video of Robbie pulling away from the truck on it.
KHI Guy
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KHI Guy 2/12/2019 11:20am
2/12/2019 11:20am
Does Suzuki still make the hard parts to assemble new RM125 engines? I'm guessing no? Are they going to retool to make a limited run of new engines, or is it going to be up to the end user to source 15 year old donor engines? Unsure
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Rotaholic
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Rotaholic 2/12/2019 1:16pm
2/12/2019 1:16pm
I think Suzuki just moved all thier factorys to one new factory so unsure if all thier tooling is still around. An all new 125 with a 144 kit would be a epic!
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drt410
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drt410 2/12/2019 1:33pm
2/12/2019 1:33pm Edited Date/Time 2/12/2019 1:34pm
brocster wrote:
Good on Suzuki for exploring more options for a “tweener” without releasing a entire bike. You can bet that all other manufacturers ears stood up when...
Good on Suzuki for exploring more options for a “tweener” without releasing a entire bike. You can bet that all other manufacturers ears stood up when they heard the concept and we can only hope that it got the wheels turning elswhere with some crafty altertanitives. Thanks for thinking outside the box Suzuki!

As someone else mentioned wouldn’t it be great to pick your brand
Pick your motor 125,150,2502T,2504T, 350, 450 options are endless with a plug and play frame
Pick your suspension for corresponding motor. Complete with offset triple clamps, links etc.

Once manufacturers are tooled up this could be a huge cost savings to them as the bulk of the bike would be one SKU. This little photo and test could eventually change the way we buy dirtbikes in the future. “Add to cart”...
That would make sense. You can do it with cars. These days 250f/450f share frames and 125/250 can too and you could theoretically use Suzukis centerport alum 250f frame to build a 125,250,250f, or 450f.

Then with a company like KTM with power parts you could choose what you want from there. If you built the bike it would be cheaper because normally you have to buy an entire bike so you pay for the oem suspension. If you wanted you could choose cone valve forks and wouldnt have to pay for the oem first saving you money. Ktm is making money either way. I think this could be badass and help reign in some of the costs associated with having to buy things twice when you have to first buy an oem bike.
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mikec265
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mikec265 2/12/2019 1:34pm
2/12/2019 1:34pm
brocster wrote:
Good on Suzuki for exploring more options for a “tweener” without releasing a entire bike. You can bet that all other manufacturers ears stood up when...
Good on Suzuki for exploring more options for a “tweener” without releasing a entire bike. You can bet that all other manufacturers ears stood up when they heard the concept and we can only hope that it got the wheels turning elswhere with some crafty altertanitives. Thanks for thinking outside the box Suzuki!

As someone else mentioned wouldn’t it be great to pick your brand
Pick your motor 125,150,2502T,2504T, 350, 450 options are endless with a plug and play frame
Pick your suspension for corresponding motor. Complete with offset triple clamps, links etc.

Once manufacturers are tooled up this could be a huge cost savings to them as the bulk of the bike would be one SKU. This little photo and test could eventually change the way we buy dirtbikes in the future. “Add to cart”...
And let us but directly from the manufacturer shipped to our door step. All my local dealers suck anyhow. Perfect
Subotai
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Subotai 2/16/2019 10:16am
2/16/2019 10:16am
SW310 wrote:
Check Pulp show #361 - Chris Wheeler..... Pretty sure that was the one
Checked that show. No mention of it. Any other clue which show it may have been? Thanks.
1
inthebadboycorner 2/16/2019 2:59pm
2/16/2019 2:59pm
oldblood wrote:
The 3 of the big 4 (6) that aren't producing 125s probably won't start. But just for the sake of argument they all could restart production...
The 3 of the big 4 (6) that aren't producing 125s probably won't start. But just for the sake of argument they all could restart production of their most recent model with bng and be perfect for the aftermarket to refine. Besides, many models of 85s are older design.
I am not sure this is so true, I remember the large Australian auto makers trashed all irrelevent non current vehicle model dies, moulds and crap after they made enough OEM spares, and that was that.
So if they had not produced the bike for 10 + years that shit may be long gone.
loftyair
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loftyair 2/16/2019 3:08pm
2/16/2019 3:08pm
Rotaholic wrote:
I think Suzuki just moved all thier factorys to one new factory so unsure if all thier tooling is still around. An all new 125 with...
I think Suzuki just moved all thier factorys to one new factory so unsure if all thier tooling is still around. An all new 125 with a 144 kit would be a epic!
Make us a 150, but its for to be 'stroked' too.
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az_twosmoker 2/16/2019 3:43pm
2/16/2019 3:43pm
Fingers crossed they bring a 125 to the market again, would be awesome!
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Underground 2/16/2019 3:58pm
2/16/2019 3:58pm
I can't help but feel this is going to happen for reals
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Marty1028
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Marty1028 2/17/2019 9:40pm
2/17/2019 9:40pm
to give a idea....
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roninho
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roninho 2/17/2019 11:37pm
2/17/2019 11:37pm
jeffro503 wrote:
That would be a dream come true. One rolling chassis , with a couple different sized motor's sitting on the bench , along with a extra...
That would be a dream come true. One rolling chassis , with a couple different sized motor's sitting on the bench , along with a extra set of suspension.....haha , that would be pretty damn awesome. A true " modular bike."
Can an official dealer of Suzuki (or Honda/Kawasaki) order/buy a bunch of roller frames (so without engines) from the factory for a good price today?

There have been/are a bunch of small European firms who offer 125cc KZ/ICC engines for karting which are just as competitive as the TM 125cc KZ/ICC engines. It should imo be very doable for a large European dealer to partner with one of these engine firms, make some changes to these KZ engines for mx and put this engine in the frame.

Buzzard167
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Buzzard167 2/18/2019 1:03am
2/18/2019 1:03am
SW310 wrote:
Check Pulp show #361 - Chris Wheeler..... Pretty sure that was the one
Subotai wrote:
Checked that show. No mention of it. Any other clue which show it may have been? Thanks.
couldn't find it either lol

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