Cheating in MX back in the days

keinz
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keinz
Edited Date/Time 12/13/2018 1:30pm
Funny thing came to mind. Back in soviet era some our guys raced the 250 class with 500s. The only thing that visually separated the 250CZ from 500CZ was silencer. Right after the race was over they quicly changed the silencer, and everyting was fineSmile
What your memories?
And please don't kill me, because I had already written the same thing in another topic
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Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 12/9/2018 8:03am
12/9/2018 8:03am Edited Date/Time 12/9/2018 8:27am
Super easy to get away with. When Rick Burget on the Yamaha was at the Rio Bravo Houston National in '76, each time he came by we laughed because no 250 ever sounded like that grunt monster.

At the same race, I stuck my Montesa 250 in a mudhole of a new section that they put in crossing the creek, and then it rained overnight. Many bikes had to be removed with tractors including mine, but I spun the flywheel key trying to get unstuck. After searching for the flywheel removing tool with no luck, I swapped engines with my spare bike, a 360. Holeshot my qualifier and led Rex Staten on the HD the 1st lap only to be red flagged.
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Jeff_Crutcher 12/9/2018 8:12am
12/9/2018 8:12am
You mean the “125” class?
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keinz
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keinz 12/9/2018 8:29am
12/9/2018 8:29am
Jeff_Crutcher wrote:
You mean the “125” class?
No. If I'm remember correctly, it was 250/500

The Shop

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rob162
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rob162 12/9/2018 8:47am
12/9/2018 8:47am
Saw a lot of people back in the early 2000's running yz426's in the 125 class.
lostboy819 12/9/2018 9:03am
12/9/2018 9:03am
Cheating has been going on as long as there has been racing, Brian Deegan won his only 125 SX on a big bore, and he wasn't the only guy running a big bore in the 125 class.
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keinz
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keinz 12/9/2018 9:04am
12/9/2018 9:04am
if it was allowe, then it was ok, but you have to be dumb as shit, if you can't separate 2T from 4 stroke
JMCR250
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JMCR250 12/9/2018 10:43am
12/9/2018 10:43am
A factory mechanic in the day (mid to late 70s) told me they used to place a length of chain at the bottom of the airbox prior to tech inspection so they could hit the weight minimums, among other things.
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davistld01
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davistld01 12/9/2018 11:10am
12/9/2018 11:10am
JMCR250 wrote:
A factory mechanic in the day (mid to late 70s) told me they used to place a length of chain at the bottom of the airbox...
A factory mechanic in the day (mid to late 70s) told me they used to place a length of chain at the bottom of the airbox prior to tech inspection so they could hit the weight minimums, among other things.
As light as some of those bikes were...that would have to be a heavy length of chain.
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line-up
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line-up 12/9/2018 12:32pm
12/9/2018 12:32pm
JMCR250 wrote:
A factory mechanic in the day (mid to late 70s) told me they used to place a length of chain at the bottom of the airbox...
A factory mechanic in the day (mid to late 70s) told me they used to place a length of chain at the bottom of the airbox prior to tech inspection so they could hit the weight minimums, among other things.
http://www.jwvanessen.com/pictures-1980-present.html

May 18th, 1980. After the second heat of the Finnish 500cc Grand Prix
at Vantaa (Ruskeasanta), the Kawasaki works team make protest against
Gerard Rond. His works Suzuki must be weighed again and Heikki is
looking amused how they pull out a drive chain from the air-filter box of the Suzuki.

Roger DeCoster (in 1980, on Honda) then gave the next comment: " I must say, at the moment the Suzuki team settled it all very well. For on the way they even give their racers a spare chain..... ".




What raised suspicions was the fact that at the end of the motos Rond would rush with his bike under the factory Suzuki tent where his mechanic was waiting to shut the entrance right away in order to prevent anybody to see what was gonna happen next.
The real funny part of this story is that the bike did not result under weight and years later Gerard Rond admitted they had one more chain hidden under the seat...
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SmokinJoe439
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SmokinJoe439 12/9/2018 12:56pm
12/9/2018 12:56pm
My friend talks about team Yamaha back in the late 70's running stroked cranks on 250's.
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Monk
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Monk 12/9/2018 3:14pm
12/9/2018 3:14pm
Be pretty easy to cheat with a new 350 in the 250f class...
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racer369
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racer369 12/9/2018 4:23pm
12/9/2018 4:23pm
125 yz with 175 cyclinders
Sir Roostsalot 12/9/2018 4:33pm
12/9/2018 4:33pm
Back in yhe '80's Kawasaki made a 100 kit for the KX80. It was intended to be used for the 105 open class. I always wondered if any of the other kids ran one on their 80 class bikes.
motokiwi 12/9/2018 5:03pm
12/9/2018 5:03pm
I remember when this jumped up ginger headed kid appeared to be on every P.E.D under the sun in order to even try and compete with this up and coming young black kid.
Nearly every interview the ginger kid did - you could tell he was wired to the gills.
Heck - apparently he even ran cheater fuel - but had such a big cry when they caught him - that they gave him his points back..
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rob162
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rob162 12/9/2018 5:46pm
12/9/2018 5:46pm Edited Date/Time 12/9/2018 5:47pm
keinz wrote:
if it was allowe, then it was ok, but you have to be dumb as shit, if you can't separate 2T from 4 stroke
This was when the 250f first came out. I caught a few local pros showing up with both their bikes with black backgrounds when I knew damn well one of them was a 426/450
MohMoto14
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MohMoto14 12/9/2018 8:28pm
12/9/2018 8:28pm
Tyler Bowers used to have a kx60 with a kx80 motor in it. He ran mini junior with it because he was to short for an 80 if you can believe that. I don't think he ever cheated with it, at least as far as I know but it sure made you wonder about everyone else.

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Robgvx
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Robgvx 12/10/2018 7:51am
12/10/2018 7:51am
In GPs in the eighties a few riders cheated in qualification. They did a practice start then pulled off at the first turn, rode back to the gate (behind the timing van) then did another practice start (at precisely the right time) to record a ‘lap time’ without ever going round it.

Timing wasn’t by transponder then.

Another rider did something similar in Finland. Started the lap, pulled off at the first turn and went into the pits for ‘repairs’. Then he re-joined the track a few turns before the finish to record a lap time. How did he know how to time it right? He started his ‘lap’ alongside a fast guy and re-joined the track just in front of the same rider.

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BobbyM
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BobbyM 12/10/2018 8:01am
12/10/2018 8:01am
keinz wrote:
Funny thing came to mind. Back in soviet era some our guys raced the 250 class with 500s. The only thing that visually separated the 250CZ...
Funny thing came to mind. Back in soviet era some our guys raced the 250 class with 500s. The only thing that visually separated the 250CZ from 500CZ was silencer. Right after the race was over they quicly changed the silencer, and everyting was fineSmile
What your memories?
And please don't kill me, because I had already written the same thing in another topic
Hidden from most everybody's sight was a pair of testicles that were much larger than anybody else's I was racing that day sans magoo and the SHU and maybe one other racer. Is that cheating? Possibly....
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CDswinehart
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CDswinehart 12/10/2018 12:10pm
12/10/2018 12:10pm
Why...whatever do you mean? We're all Boy Scouts here. Are you making reference to blatant cheating or "creative rule interpretation" ?
dadofagun
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dadofagun 12/10/2018 2:00pm
12/10/2018 2:00pm
My fav is “Lorettas legal” PW 50 engine kits.....
Some clever work there.
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ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 12/10/2018 2:33pm
12/10/2018 2:33pm
Robgvx wrote:
In GPs in the eighties a few riders cheated in qualification. They did a practice start then pulled off at the first turn, rode back to...
In GPs in the eighties a few riders cheated in qualification. They did a practice start then pulled off at the first turn, rode back to the gate (behind the timing van) then did another practice start (at precisely the right time) to record a ‘lap time’ without ever going round it.

Timing wasn’t by transponder then.

Another rider did something similar in Finland. Started the lap, pulled off at the first turn and went into the pits for ‘repairs’. Then he re-joined the track a few turns before the finish to record a lap time. How did he know how to time it right? He started his ‘lap’ alongside a fast guy and re-joined the track just in front of the same rider.
Names . We want names .
Robgvx
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Robgvx 12/10/2018 3:07pm
12/10/2018 3:07pm
Robgvx wrote:
In GPs in the eighties a few riders cheated in qualification. They did a practice start then pulled off at the first turn, rode back to...
In GPs in the eighties a few riders cheated in qualification. They did a practice start then pulled off at the first turn, rode back to the gate (behind the timing van) then did another practice start (at precisely the right time) to record a ‘lap time’ without ever going round it.

Timing wasn’t by transponder then.

Another rider did something similar in Finland. Started the lap, pulled off at the first turn and went into the pits for ‘repairs’. Then he re-joined the track a few turns before the finish to record a lap time. How did he know how to time it right? He started his ‘lap’ alongside a fast guy and re-joined the track just in front of the same rider.
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Names . We want names .
I’m sure you do!

The hot ticket for passing sound testing - which was not exactly cheating because stock pipes/silencers often would fail - was a handlebar rubber mounting cone inserted in the exhaust in front of the silencer. Easily installed and removed afterwards but made the bike quiet.
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USA 12/10/2018 3:12pm
12/10/2018 3:12pm
Didn’t Gavin Gracyk (sp?) get accused of running a big bore 250 2stroke back when 4strokes were starting to take over?

I always thought the 125s left in 2004-5 were 134s or 144s.
Forty
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Forty 12/10/2018 3:20pm
12/10/2018 3:20pm
Not really cheating as much as a prank but guys used to reach over and turn off the fuel on the rider next to them.
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UpTiTe 12/10/2018 3:20pm
12/10/2018 3:20pm
In the early 90s a guy raced a 165 in the 125 west coast series for a season. He went from struggling to make mains to a 13-15 place guy. At one race a hand full of guys were doing this tricky triple, he was one of them. After practice a big wig came wheeling up in his chair and looked at us with a smirk and asked, what size is that thing? His mechanic looked at him with a dumb look and said, 125. The guy in the chair said, be honest with me and I wont say anything, the mechanic looked at him and said, 165. The guy in the chair laughed and wheeled off.

I still have that motor in my shop somewhere.
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mattyhamz2 12/10/2018 3:30pm
12/10/2018 3:30pm
UpTiTe wrote:
In the early 90s a guy raced a 165 in the 125 west coast series for a season. He went from struggling to make mains to...
In the early 90s a guy raced a 165 in the 125 west coast series for a season. He went from struggling to make mains to a 13-15 place guy. At one race a hand full of guys were doing this tricky triple, he was one of them. After practice a big wig came wheeling up in his chair and looked at us with a smirk and asked, what size is that thing? His mechanic looked at him with a dumb look and said, 125. The guy in the chair said, be honest with me and I wont say anything, the mechanic looked at him and said, 165. The guy in the chair laughed and wheeled off.

I still have that motor in my shop somewhere.
Haha. That's funny! Do you have your own shop? Or did you just mean your garage?
dl117
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dl117 12/10/2018 4:54pm
12/10/2018 4:54pm
UpTiTe wrote:
In the early 90s a guy raced a 165 in the 125 west coast series for a season. He went from struggling to make mains to...
In the early 90s a guy raced a 165 in the 125 west coast series for a season. He went from struggling to make mains to a 13-15 place guy. At one race a hand full of guys were doing this tricky triple, he was one of them. After practice a big wig came wheeling up in his chair and looked at us with a smirk and asked, what size is that thing? His mechanic looked at him with a dumb look and said, 125. The guy in the chair said, be honest with me and I wont say anything, the mechanic looked at him and said, 165. The guy in the chair laughed and wheeled off.

I still have that motor in my shop somewhere.
I have some buddies that did the same thing , helped immensely, 143 and 165 were common back then.
lostboy819 12/10/2018 5:33pm
12/10/2018 5:33pm
I had a YZ125 with a 167 kit, rode it in Vet class so no foul but against other 125s it wasn't even close. Cool

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