Do you think a Top American will ever go to the GP's?

a22
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a22 10/10/2018 7:34am
10/10/2018 7:34am Edited Date/Time 10/10/2018 7:37am
Shouldn't Donny Schmit not be on the list along with Brad Lackey and Danny Laporte?

Super rider, think he won the US 1986 SX125(West)- according to the Vault archive and also x2 GP champ- 125 and 250.
Huge credit to him. We mustn't forget Donny!!

When Donny was on his A game in the GP's he was almost unbeatable at times seem to recall. So fast and was relentless. Reckon he would have won more US titles had he not been winning the GP's!
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Park Boys
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Park Boys 10/10/2018 7:38am
10/10/2018 7:38am
a22 wrote:
[b]Shouldn't Donny Schmit not be on the list along with Brad Lackey and Danny Laporte[/b]? Super rider, think he won the US 1986 SX125(West)- according to...
Shouldn't Donny Schmit not be on the list along with Brad Lackey and Danny Laporte?

Super rider, think he won the US 1986 SX125(West)- according to the Vault archive and also x2 GP champ- 125 and 250.
Huge credit to him. We mustn't forget Donny!!

When Donny was on his A game in the GP's he was almost unbeatable at times seem to recall. So fast and was relentless. Reckon he would have won more US titles had he not been winning the GP's!
I would agree about Donny being dominant at times, Everts got his first title due to a Schmidt injury.
motomike137
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motomike137 10/10/2018 7:42am
10/10/2018 7:42am
It's a simple no. Financially SX contracts are king. It would take a very unique individual to give up the comfort of staying home to travel the world and make less money.
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Moto96
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Moto96 10/10/2018 7:43am
10/10/2018 7:43am
Park Boys wrote:
What about all the guys that were not AMA champs but ended up being GP champs. Look up GPs from 89 to 94 it's filled with...
What about all the guys that were not AMA champs but ended up being GP champs. Look up GPs from 89 to 94 it's filled with Americans who won but they never won titles in the states.
The above is INACCURATE. Donny Schmidt 125 title and 250 title, dont remember the years, late 80s or early 90s.,
Trampas Parker 89 125 title, and 94 or 95 500 class champ. Brad lackey won the 500 title in the early 80s.

Bobby Moore won the 94 or 95 125 world title.

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a22
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a22 10/10/2018 7:46am
10/10/2018 7:46am
Park Boys wrote:
I would agree about Donny being dominant at times, Everts got his first title due to a Schmidt injury.
... and Everts probably learnt a load from him, as a youngster, whilst following at times.... Donny was a beast!
Donovan759
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Donovan759 10/10/2018 7:48am
10/10/2018 7:48am
BobKerr wrote:
NO
Classic Bob.. lol I literally came here for the single purpose of finding the BobKerr "NO" post. Never fails.
a22
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a22 10/10/2018 7:55am
10/10/2018 7:55am Edited Date/Time 10/10/2018 8:28am
Park Boys wrote:
What about all the guys that were not AMA champs but ended up being GP champs. Look up GPs from 89 to 94 it's filled with...
What about all the guys that were not AMA champs but ended up being GP champs. Look up GPs from 89 to 94 it's filled with Americans who won but they never won titles in the states.
Moto96 wrote:
The above is INACCURATE. Donny Schmidt 125 title and 250 title, dont remember the years, late 80s or early 90s., Trampas Parker 89 125 title, and...
The above is INACCURATE. Donny Schmidt 125 title and 250 title, dont remember the years, late 80s or early 90s.,
Trampas Parker 89 125 title, and 94 or 95 500 class champ. Brad lackey won the 500 title in the early 80s.

Bobby Moore won the 94 or 95 125 world title.
@Moto96 - I think the original poster of these stats is referring to riders who won BOTH the US AMA titles and GP titles.... not just GP titles alone, like Trampas or Bobby.

However think it is inaccurate as you say because Donny Schmit should be on the list along with Brad and Danny....?

Infact Donny won TWO GP TITLES as you correctly say (was (1990 125 and 1992 250). as well as the 1986 AMA WSX125 title.
So in fact Donny maybe is the most successful US rider to have won GP titles and AMA with x1 AMA title and x2 GP Titles, (1990 125 and 1992 250). Brad and Danny 'only' won two in total opposed to Donny's three!
Hahah- 'only two' ... huge credit to all of them.

Donny RIP- was such a super rider.

** EDIT- just saw that OP of the stats list was REFERRING to US AMA titles (NOT REGIONAL SX AMA TITLES)- so I am wrong with this!!

However- Donny should be 'almost ' on that list, as one of the best along with Brad and Danny for sure!
Didn't see the 'regional' bit @dp450, your info and stats look accurate I think.
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resetjet 10/10/2018 8:04am
10/10/2018 8:04am
No way. Leave the comfy us to travel all around the world for less money and have to ride crappy tracks against guys that ride like someone has a gun to their childs head if they lose. Supercross is where the fame and money is like it or not.
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ga_pike 10/10/2018 8:15am
10/10/2018 8:15am
Anonymous wrote:
Whoever did it and was successful would be an American Fucking Hero!!
Bultaco wrote:
I wish this were true. Most recently Zach Osborne raced in Europe. (2008 - 2011) and no one even remembers. A hundred years ago, when Jim...
I wish this were true.

Most recently Zach Osborne raced in Europe. (2008 - 2011) and no one even remembers.

A hundred years ago, when Jim Pomeroy raced in Europe and was back in the US for the Daytona SX, the AMA would not even let him race. Like some amateur, the AMA told Jim he did not have enough qualifying points to line up at his own countries pro races.

After Brad Lackey became the first ever American to win a World Championship, he did not even have a ride the following year.

The most attention and excitement I’ve seen about an American and the GPs was when Ryan Villopoto started the series a few years ago. I presume that is largely due to the internet and being able to watch him in action.
SWOHIO GUY wrote:
Osbourne didn't win a championship, so I believe that is why no one remembers. I think the GP's were still viewed as second rate when he...
Osbourne didn't win a championship, so I believe that is why no one remembers. I think the GP's were still viewed as second rate when he was over there. The GP's are certainly not second rate any more, although I don't believe the GP's are far ahead as people think. With the internet and better viewing options for the GP's I think people would pay attention, but it would have to be a big name that was developed over here. I can't see Tomac doing it, at least not until he gets a SX title, but even then I just can't see it.
I found it interesting nobody really mentioned Osbourne. I think it might be beneficial for more of our young guys to go race MXGP for 3-4 years and then come back to the states. AC92 is someone who might have benefited from taking that path IMO.
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a22 10/10/2018 8:23am
10/10/2018 8:23am
ga_pike wrote:
I found it interesting nobody really mentioned Osbourne. I think it might be beneficial for more of our young guys to go race MXGP for 3-4...
I found it interesting nobody really mentioned Osbourne. I think it might be beneficial for more of our young guys to go race MXGP for 3-4 years and then come back to the states. AC92 is someone who might have benefited from taking that path IMO.
Yes as you say, is interesting Osbournes period in the GP's... not much said about it, then his return and huge success.
Covingtons period was definitely similar to Zachs, if not even better results actually than Zach had.

So on that theory maybe Thomas does as well as Zacho on his return even.
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SWOHIO GUY 10/10/2018 8:38am
10/10/2018 8:38am
ga_pike wrote:
I found it interesting nobody really mentioned Osbourne. I think it might be beneficial for more of our young guys to go race MXGP for 3-4...
I found it interesting nobody really mentioned Osbourne. I think it might be beneficial for more of our young guys to go race MXGP for 3-4 years and then come back to the states. AC92 is someone who might have benefited from taking that path IMO.
a22 wrote:
Yes as you say, is interesting Osbournes period in the GP's... not much said about it, then his return and huge success. Covingtons period was definitely...
Yes as you say, is interesting Osbournes period in the GP's... not much said about it, then his return and huge success.
Covingtons period was definitely similar to Zachs, if not even better results actually than Zach had.

So on that theory maybe Thomas does as well as Zacho on his return even.
It still took Osbourne 4 years back in the states before he was a championship contender. It wasn't till he started working with Aldon and riding against Musquin/Dungey/Anderson everyday in practice that he picked up his game. I am not a firm believer that Covington or Lawrence will come dominate next year. The 250 class will be at least 10 deep of riders who can win each race.

Back to Covington, He was a good amateur rider in the US but never dominated. It wasn't like the GP's stole a once in a generation talent so that is probably why there wasn't too much interest over here. It would either take a phenom talent going to the GP's straight out of Amateurs or take a major talent like a Tomac to get the peoples attention over here.
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a22 10/10/2018 8:49am
10/10/2018 8:49am Edited Date/Time 10/10/2018 9:14am
... yes good point, it did seem to take Zach abit of time on his return and as you say maybe the trick was riding with those top riders you speak of along with Aldon.
Will be interesting though for sure to see how Thomas stacks up after spending the time he has in the GP's to then return.
Has to be good when the US guys and GP guys mix it up and changeover between the two series?!

p.s -Maybe also helps with all the 'BS and hating' we have often it seems, between GP Vs. AMA crap- what a load of tripe that is- they are all MX riders/ racers as many of us are/were- doesn't damn matter where we come from does it?! They are racers with a shared love of this wonderful sport... I like all of them, even the attitudes and smacktalk at times! Adds to the spectacle and makes it exiciting and fun! Hannah vs. Howerton... Herlings vs. Tomac- its all much of the samething and all goodstuff! Expect Tomac may well return the favour in the future!

Don't matter whether they are from Holland/ USA or flipping Brazil and the Mars planet even... I don't give a fig from what series or country a rider comes from!Laughing jeez! They are all great riders racing each other, and probably trying their hardest, thats fine by me, whatever series they race and whomever damn wins (or loses)!
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roninho 10/10/2018 8:50am
10/10/2018 8:50am
ga_pike wrote:
I found it interesting nobody really mentioned Osbourne. I think it might be beneficial for more of our young guys to go race MXGP for 3-4...
I found it interesting nobody really mentioned Osbourne. I think it might be beneficial for more of our young guys to go race MXGP for 3-4 years and then come back to the states. AC92 is someone who might have benefited from taking that path IMO.
Imo it is a great way to stay 8-10 years in the 250's on a good team. First get a ride in GPs as a young talent, slowly improve yourself, age out after 3-5 years and then move to the US as a new fresh face. If you play your cards well you end up with 4 years or more again without winning that much. I mean i really liked Covington in the GP's, but i'm not sure if he would have the same results in AMA (so no SX results and 5th overall outdoors with 1 win out of 19) he would get much interest from factories.
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SWOHIO GUY 10/10/2018 9:05am
10/10/2018 9:05am
a22 wrote:
... yes good point, it did seem to take Zach abit of time on his return and as you say maybe the trick was riding with...
... yes good point, it did seem to take Zach abit of time on his return and as you say maybe the trick was riding with those top riders you speak of along with Aldon.
Will be interesting though for sure to see how Thomas stacks up after spending the time he has in the GP's to then return.
Has to be good when the US guys and GP guys mix it up and changeover between the two series?!

p.s -Maybe also helps with all the 'BS and hating' we have often it seems, between GP Vs. AMA crap- what a load of tripe that is- they are all MX riders/ racers as many of us are/were- doesn't damn matter where we come from does it?! They are racers with a shared love of this wonderful sport... I like all of them, even the attitudes and smacktalk at times! Adds to the spectacle and makes it exiciting and fun! Hannah vs. Howerton... Herlings vs. Tomac- its all much of the samething and all goodstuff! Expect Tomac may well return the favour in the future!

Don't matter whether they are from Holland/ USA or flipping Brazil and the Mars planet even... I don't give a fig from what series or country a rider comes from!Laughing jeez! They are all great riders racing each other, and probably trying their hardest, thats fine by me, whatever series they race and whomever damn wins (or loses)!
I like seeing the best riders in the world go at it, it ticked me off that Musquin wasn't MXofN. I think Herlings is a prick, but also an amazing talent. I could really care less where they come from. I prefer the American riders but I like to see good talents go at it regardless of where they are from. I think the GP's is 10 deep in the 450's and the US is only about 5 deep at the moment and I think that is was the issue at MXofN especially with the starts our riders were getting.

I guess the patriotism in me wants to see Tomac go over there and give the Euros hell but I don't think I will ever see it.
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Frank 10/10/2018 9:13am
10/10/2018 9:13am
resetjet wrote:
No way. Leave the comfy us to travel all around the world for less money and have to ride crappy tracks against guys that ride like...
No way. Leave the comfy us to travel all around the world for less money and have to ride crappy tracks against guys that ride like someone has a gun to their childs head if they lose. Supercross is where the fame and money is like it or not.
This. Like it or not we will always know we are not watching the fastest motocross races in the world when we attend the US Nationals. Upside is we get 17 rounds of awesome supercross. Seems like a pretty good trade off.
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bvm111
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bvm111 10/10/2018 9:30am
10/10/2018 9:30am
This is a job to these guys and they will go where they can maximize their earnings and that means SX... just the way it is!
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a22
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a22 10/10/2018 9:35am
10/10/2018 9:35am Edited Date/Time 10/10/2018 9:38am
SWOHIO GUY wrote:
I like seeing the best riders in the world go at it, it ticked me off that Musquin wasn't MXofN. I think Herlings is a prick...
I like seeing the best riders in the world go at it, it ticked me off that Musquin wasn't MXofN. I think Herlings is a prick, but also an amazing talent. I could really care less where they come from. I prefer the American riders but I like to see good talents go at it regardless of where they are from. I think the GP's is 10 deep in the 450's and the US is only about 5 deep at the moment and I think that is was the issue at MXofN especially with the starts our riders were getting.

I guess the patriotism in me wants to see Tomac go over there and give the Euros hell but I don't think I will ever see it.
Be great if he (Tomac) did come to GP's and also shut a few mouths up! As you say probably unlikely to happen but how cool would that be if he did=win or lose. Same as if Herlings went to US- win or lose....! What a spectacle that would be if either of those two swapped series!

Yep, me also, would have liked to have seen Marv at the Nations- Gajser/ Febvre also would have been cool.

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Stoneface
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Stoneface 10/10/2018 9:43am
10/10/2018 9:43am
bvm111 wrote:
This is a job to these guys and they will go where they can maximize their earnings and that means SX... just the way it is!
Wouldn't a star US rider be a big draw in Europe? Garner a lot of attention and get big publicity for his sponsors. Thinking about it, I'm surprised there aren't MXGP teams trying to poach US riders. This was the idea with Villopoto going over wasn't it?

Maybe the sport is just not as big as I think it is.
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mccread 10/10/2018 10:42am
10/10/2018 10:42am
If an American really wants to prove he is the best motocross rider in the world, he will come, as the world championship is the place to prove it. But since supercross seems more important than motocross in the US bubble, I doubt it.

MXGP is the toughest championship in the world, and when you can stay in your own country and race on a Saturday night in a stadium and get all the glamour and bright lights with it, it’s an easier option.

Compare that to riding Lommel all winter and 2 days of outdoors 20 times a year plus cold pre-season races in February and probably some national championship racing. MXGP takes extra commitment and you have to really want to be the best mx rider in the world to do it, I’m not sure US riders want to be the best in the world outdoors when supercross is what they grow up dreaming of, and they can stay in their own country to do it.
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Fearo 10/10/2018 11:12am
10/10/2018 11:12am Edited Date/Time 10/10/2018 11:13am
motomike137 wrote:
It's a simple no. Financially SX contracts are king. It would take a very unique individual to give up the comfort of staying home to travel...
It's a simple no. Financially SX contracts are king. It would take a very unique individual to give up the comfort of staying home to travel the world and make less money.
This is the unfortunate truth. You would have to have a guy that has won everything in the US, is set for life, prefers motocross over supercross, and wants to spend at least 2 years travelling the world just for glory. It would be an incredible story but i don't see this ever happening.
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bvm111 10/10/2018 11:37am
10/10/2018 11:37am
bvm111 wrote:
This is a job to these guys and they will go where they can maximize their earnings and that means SX... just the way it is!
Stoneface wrote:
Wouldn't a star US rider be a big draw in Europe? Garner a lot of attention and get big publicity for his sponsors. Thinking about it...
Wouldn't a star US rider be a big draw in Europe? Garner a lot of attention and get big publicity for his sponsors. Thinking about it, I'm surprised there aren't MXGP teams trying to poach US riders. This was the idea with Villopoto going over wasn't it?

Maybe the sport is just not as big as I think it is.
If I remember correctly RV didn't want to race at all that year and tried to get out of his contract, Kawi said no way and he ended up doing the GPs until he broke his butt. It seems to me that you have guys that are top 10 level SX making way more doing SX than they could if they went to do the GPs. I understand everyone's emotions are hurt over the loss, but if you put yourself in their shoes it seems like an easy choice to me and I would maximize my earning potential and stay here and do SX.
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Beeby 10/10/2018 11:50am
10/10/2018 11:50am Edited Date/Time 10/10/2018 11:51am
At the moment I don’t think anyone in the US has the speed to compete with Herlings. Just like no one in the GP’s has the speed to compete with him. So why go and chase a dream that doesn’t look real?
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ATKpilot99 10/10/2018 12:05pm
10/10/2018 12:05pm
mccread wrote:
If an American really wants to prove he is the best motocross rider in the world, he will come, as the world championship is the place...
If an American really wants to prove he is the best motocross rider in the world, he will come, as the world championship is the place to prove it. But since supercross seems more important than motocross in the US bubble, I doubt it.

MXGP is the toughest championship in the world, and when you can stay in your own country and race on a Saturday night in a stadium and get all the glamour and bright lights with it, it’s an easier option.

Compare that to riding Lommel all winter and 2 days of outdoors 20 times a year plus cold pre-season races in February and probably some national championship racing. MXGP takes extra commitment and you have to really want to be the best mx rider in the world to do it, I’m not sure US riders want to be the best in the world outdoors when supercross is what they grow up dreaming of, and they can stay in their own country to do it.
Do you have this speech ready to cut and paste at a moment's notice ?
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a22
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a22 10/10/2018 1:07pm
10/10/2018 1:07pm
Yep understanding you dp450, never saw the REGIONAL bit until abit later and very good stats and info.

Blimey- 40 years ago, that too is interesting, it seems just like yesterday- dreaming as a kid I could be like these guys, which sadly never happened! haha
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a22 10/10/2018 1:16pm
10/10/2018 1:16pm
Just thought of another one who did really good and really should be mentioned- Rodney Smith- very fast and was right up there with the best Euros.
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magoo1982 10/10/2018 7:22pm
10/10/2018 7:22pm Edited Date/Time 10/10/2018 7:31pm
a22 wrote:
Just thought of another one who did really good and really should be mentioned- Rodney Smith- very fast and was right up there with the best...
Just thought of another one who did really good and really should be mentioned- Rodney Smith- very fast and was right up there with the best Euros.
glad you remembered Rodney Smith , he came back to states and won a ton of off - road races for several yrs on rm250 ..and yes that ccm was white with purple graphics , wish they still made them with that great rotax power..
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BobbyM 10/10/2018 10:33pm
10/10/2018 10:33pm
devindavisphoto wrote:
I haven't read anything in this thread other than the title, but I say no. Supercross is still the pinnacle of the sport, despite what you...
I haven't read anything in this thread other than the title, but I say no. Supercross is still the pinnacle of the sport, despite what you guys say around this time of the year, and that's where the money is at. There's a reason why we have the best riders in the world. We might not have the fastest rider on the planet right now, but if you look at the sport as a whole on this side of the planet it's further ahead than the other side of the planet in many ways. The ability to ride a Supercross track is one of those things. Until you've guys had to hit a whoop section that's 4 feet tall, your opinion is irrelevant.
SX and MX are two totally different disciplines... Dork.
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BobbyM 10/10/2018 10:37pm
10/10/2018 10:37pm
a22 wrote:
Just thought of another one who did really good and really should be mentioned- Rodney Smith- very fast and was right up there with the best...
Just thought of another one who did really good and really should be mentioned- Rodney Smith- very fast and was right up there with the best Euros.
Rodney was lured over to the MXGP's for the cash incentive, but not from the USA. I don't think being world champ was ever in Rodney's mind earlier in his career.

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