Unadilla Cheating

cbuehler767
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cbuehler767 8/12/2018 2:05pm
8/12/2018 2:05pm
plowboy wrote:
Lol...I'm absolutely amazed at how well they rode that track at all. I don't say this often but the AMA made a good call not penalizing...
Lol...I'm absolutely amazed at how well they rode that track at all. I don't say this often but the AMA made a good call not penalizing the guys for just trying to navigate that greasy bitch. I bet no one could even walk that track without busting their ass.
Just navigating the track as a spectator was an adventure. People were just hanging out with their phones in certain spots to catch people eating shit. It was amazing to see how fast those guys could go in that slop in person.
Steve125
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Steve125 8/13/2018 4:52am
8/13/2018 4:52am Edited Date/Time 8/13/2018 4:53am
In the section I was watching from, they stuck one of those big flat plastic boards right at the end of a rut before the start of the 2nd 450 moto. Tomac came by and center punched it with his front wheel, knocking it down., everyone cheered.
make1go
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make1go 8/13/2018 5:23am
8/13/2018 5:23am
BobbyM wrote:
Since when did motocrossers become little whiney ass bitches?
since the first guy got beat and didnt like it..
as if theres something inherently tough and fair about mxers.?

if nothing else this forum has proven that conclusively..
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make1go
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make1go 8/13/2018 5:28am
8/13/2018 5:28am Edited Date/Time 8/13/2018 5:28am
Steve125 wrote:
In the section I was watching from, they stuck one of those big flat plastic boards right at the end of a rut before the start...
In the section I was watching from, they stuck one of those big flat plastic boards right at the end of a rut before the start of the 2nd 450 moto. Tomac came by and center punched it with his front wheel, knocking it down., everyone cheered.
no no NO !@!@! eli "gawd" tomac doesnt cheat..... only dirty forigners....??

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bret191
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bret191 8/13/2018 6:17am
8/13/2018 6:17am
689 wrote:
Marvins pass for the lead looked like blatant cheating to me at first. Was that line used in250 moto 1? Guessing that side of the track...
Marvins pass for the lead looked like blatant cheating to me at first.

Was that line used in250 moto 1? Guessing that side of the track funneled him to it as most guys took that line if they were on that side of the track.
Well, then they will have to fine or penalize BOTH 250/450 fields (every rider)cause by the end of the fist 450 moto every rider was using that same line and it ended up about the only line other than the right side and that line was even farther out! Its a rain race and if you will look back at ALL races the markers end up gone and the fence usually ends up the markers.
Thank GOD we have officials that have commend sense and know how too run races! They did a fantastic job during this difficult race.
Some times guys you have to use your commend sense!
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Dirtydeeds 8/13/2018 7:54am
8/13/2018 7:54am
bret191 wrote:
Well, then they will have to fine or penalize BOTH 250/450 fields (every rider)cause by the end of the fist 450 moto every rider was using...
Well, then they will have to fine or penalize BOTH 250/450 fields (every rider)cause by the end of the fist 450 moto every rider was using that same line and it ended up about the only line other than the right side and that line was even farther out! Its a rain race and if you will look back at ALL races the markers end up gone and the fence usually ends up the markers.
Thank GOD we have officials that have commend sense and know how too run races! They did a fantastic job during this difficult race.
Some times guys you have to use your commend sense!
I commend you for having the balls to post this.
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SlasherMcGee
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SlasherMcGee 8/13/2018 7:54am
8/13/2018 7:54am
Just because a lot of people do something doesn't make it right.

Should they have penalized all the Nazi's?


BOX!
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526
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526 8/13/2018 8:02am
8/13/2018 8:02am
689 wrote:
Marvins pass for the lead looked like blatant cheating to me at first. Was that line used in250 moto 1? Guessing that side of the track...
Marvins pass for the lead looked like blatant cheating to me at first.

Was that line used in250 moto 1? Guessing that side of the track funneled him to it as most guys took that line if they were on that side of the track.
bret191 wrote:
Well, then they will have to fine or penalize BOTH 250/450 fields (every rider)cause by the end of the fist 450 moto every rider was using...
Well, then they will have to fine or penalize BOTH 250/450 fields (every rider)cause by the end of the fist 450 moto every rider was using that same line and it ended up about the only line other than the right side and that line was even farther out! Its a rain race and if you will look back at ALL races the markers end up gone and the fence usually ends up the markers.
Thank GOD we have officials that have commend sense and know how too run races! They did a fantastic job during this difficult race.
Some times guys you have to use your commend sense!
Common Sense
Crush
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Crush 8/13/2018 8:28am
8/13/2018 8:28am
Not that it matters because they ruled to let it go... but what would they have done if this was championship weekend and it mattered?

And whilst I don't care about Marv's line after the skyshot... cutting the right before the rollers at the bottom of the hill in the back, or the left before the bridge after the start. Come-on fuck-o. You know that's not the track. It's never been the track. It never will be the track... you actually went off and used the built up dirt as a berm.
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ipbrew
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ipbrew 8/13/2018 8:41am
8/13/2018 8:41am
Crush wrote:
Not that it matters because they ruled to let it go... but what would they have done if this was championship weekend and it mattered? And...
Not that it matters because they ruled to let it go... but what would they have done if this was championship weekend and it mattered?

And whilst I don't care about Marv's line after the skyshot... cutting the right before the rollers at the bottom of the hill in the back, or the left before the bridge after the start. Come-on fuck-o. You know that's not the track. It's never been the track. It never will be the track... you actually went off and used the built up dirt as a berm.
Thanks for having the balls to post this Crush.
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kb228
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kb228 8/13/2018 8:42am
8/13/2018 8:42am
I saw ferrandis cut a corner pretty hard 2 laps in a row on tv. It was the right hand corner before that straight where he went into the fence. Went between the spongebob and the big haybale and the banners. That was the only spot that kindof bothered me.
motomike137
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motomike137 8/13/2018 8:58am
8/13/2018 8:58am Edited Date/Time 8/13/2018 8:59am
in YELLOW is the line I would have chosen
based on the tough conditions
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lumpy790
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lumpy790 8/13/2018 9:08am
8/13/2018 9:08am Edited Date/Time 8/13/2018 9:08am
If you have EVER raced in the mud like that you might understand finding lines to not get stuck.
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Falcon
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Falcon 8/13/2018 9:12am
8/13/2018 9:12am
So, it used to be a lot looser about the track boundaries. The definition was something like: "Banners, haybales, or some other physical barrier shall mark the edge of the course." In the absence of any banners, riders would go as wide as they wanted and it wasn't cheating.
Now, the yellow course markers denote the edge of the racecourse, and they are "not suggestions."
It seems to me that in a professional series, contested by real professionals, wherein real money is being made, there need to be rules to ensure a fair and honest competition. If those rules are violated, penalties must be handed down, or the rules have no effect. What is the point of measuring 1/10th of one percent of lead in someone's fuel if that rider can cut 100 feet of the track? 10 Feet? Even one inch? This is the reason we have a set of rules; to define what Motocross IS.
Call me a crybaby all you want, but I feel that the course boundaries should be respected at all times.
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Falcon
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Falcon 8/13/2018 9:13am
8/13/2018 9:13am
...And I have raced in mud like that. I still feel you have to stay on the track.
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Crush
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Crush 8/13/2018 9:56am
8/13/2018 9:56am
Crush wrote:
Not that it matters because they ruled to let it go... but what would they have done if this was championship weekend and it mattered? And...
Not that it matters because they ruled to let it go... but what would they have done if this was championship weekend and it mattered?

And whilst I don't care about Marv's line after the skyshot... cutting the right before the rollers at the bottom of the hill in the back, or the left before the bridge after the start. Come-on fuck-o. You know that's not the track. It's never been the track. It never will be the track... you actually went off and used the built up dirt as a berm.
ipbrew wrote:
Thanks for having the balls to post this Crush.
Don't know if serious or not... but I get that "everyone was doing it"... but seriously, what the fuck happens if it's championship weekend and say Eli crashes, Marv wins, but Eli says I didn't cut anywhere, wtf.

What do they do?
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byke
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byke 8/13/2018 10:01am
8/13/2018 10:01am
lumpy790 wrote:
If you have EVER raced in the mud like that you might understand finding lines to not get stuck.
That wasn't one of those races though. There's a mud race, then there's 'dilla last weekend, then there's Seattle '18, then there's Hangtown '91. You still have another tier or two before getting stuck is a concern. And cutting the course isn't anything new if you've ever raced cross country. The faster the class, the more egregious the course cutting/cheating. Unfortunately, those guys do the same thing where they try to make a connection between being a sissy and cheating, so the more you cheat the more of a badass you are, and the more you care about cheating, the bigger of a sissy you are. This is literally first grade playground psychology.
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B DUB 333
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B DUB 333 8/13/2018 10:01am
8/13/2018 10:01am
byke wrote:
Such a dumb thing to say. It's like taking a mulligan in golf, it means your result wasn't earned honorably. You remember honor..? Used to mean...
Such a dumb thing to say. It's like taking a mulligan in golf, it means your result wasn't earned honorably. You remember honor..? Used to mean something in this country, now we have people equating cheating with being a badass. Well done!
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LungButter
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LungButter 8/13/2018 10:09am
8/13/2018 10:09am
lumpy790 wrote:
If you have EVER raced in the mud like that you might understand finding lines to not get stuck.
I grew up in the Northwest and spent a lot of time racing in the Western Washington area, I've raced in mud like that (or worse) more times than I care to remember.

I've also seen people DQ'd for going off course to use a better line to avoid mud or ruts.

I just expect better out of what is supposed to be the Premier series in the world, hell JT got fined for going inside a course marker and they didn't even show him proof that he did it but for some reason as soon as it rains its just a free for all?

Laziness on the promoters and referees part is all this is.
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Huckster
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Huckster 8/13/2018 10:16am
8/13/2018 10:16am
They penalized at least one rider.
lostboy819 8/13/2018 11:11am
8/13/2018 11:11am
Crush wrote:
Not that it matters because they ruled to let it go... but what would they have done if this was championship weekend and it mattered? And...
Not that it matters because they ruled to let it go... but what would they have done if this was championship weekend and it mattered?

And whilst I don't care about Marv's line after the skyshot... cutting the right before the rollers at the bottom of the hill in the back, or the left before the bridge after the start. Come-on fuck-o. You know that's not the track. It's never been the track. It never will be the track... you actually went off and used the built up dirt as a berm.
ipbrew wrote:
Thanks for having the balls to post this Crush.
Crush wrote:
Don't know if serious or not... but I get that "everyone was doing it"... but seriously, what the fuck happens if it's championship weekend and say...
Don't know if serious or not... but I get that "everyone was doing it"... but seriously, what the fuck happens if it's championship weekend and say Eli crashes, Marv wins, but Eli says I didn't cut anywhere, wtf.

What do they do?
"IF" your aunt had balls she would be your uncle.
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mac3-d
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mac3-d 8/13/2018 11:30am
8/13/2018 11:30am
GangGreen wrote:
Although this contradicts my typical beliefs, in those conditions, I don't think you can penalize anyone. Some of those "Ton Bales", large round haybales, would have...
Although this contradicts my typical beliefs, in those conditions, I don't think you can penalize anyone. Some of those "Ton Bales", large round haybales, would have worked to set the edge limits, if available. Marvin was also cutting the track by missing the jump after Gravity Cavity every lap.


Tomac does the same line (above) the next lap followed by Russell or Bloss 25 mins to go on race clock.
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motomike137 8/13/2018 11:39am
8/13/2018 11:39am
GangGreen wrote:
Although this contradicts my typical beliefs, in those conditions, I don't think you can penalize anyone. Some of those "Ton Bales", large round haybales, would have...
Although this contradicts my typical beliefs, in those conditions, I don't think you can penalize anyone. Some of those "Ton Bales", large round haybales, would have worked to set the edge limits, if available. Marvin was also cutting the track by missing the jump after Gravity Cavity every lap.


mac3-d wrote:
Tomac does the same line (above) the next lap followed by Russell or Bloss 25 mins to go on race clock.
Imho they get carried away with the yellow spikes anyway. At a spot like that the banner and the big cylinder behind it might as well be the marker. You see these guys cheating to the inside of the yellow thingies every week.
greenmx5
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greenmx5 8/13/2018 2:10pm
8/13/2018 2:10pm Edited Date/Time 8/13/2018 2:21pm
lumpy790 wrote:
If you have EVER raced in the mud like that you might understand finding lines to not get stuck.
I have. And everyone has to deal with the same conditions. Dont get stuck. It clearly says if you go off the track to gain an advantage, a penalty will be handed down. Isnt cutting off the track to not get stuck gaining an advantage? It's pretty black and white.

Call it what you will, but I have a few casual friends that watched the race and they all thought it was funny. And not in a good way. It made me cringe when One said "I guess you can just go wherever you want huh?" How many professional sports throw rules out the window because of conditions? Make it a free forall
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greenmx5
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greenmx5 8/13/2018 2:23pm
8/13/2018 2:23pm
How many people got mad and said jeff alessi needed to be DQed because he was cutting the whoop section every lap at the end of the races in supercross? It's literally no different. His arms were tired, he didnt want to do the whoops. These guys didnt want to ride in the middle of the track because they didnt want to lose time or get stick. Its literally no different.
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miketherider 8/13/2018 2:32pm
8/13/2018 2:32pm
Everyone was cutting the same corners. And the AMA/MXSports folks were making zero effort to correct the situation. So, no advantage gained.
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NateDawg
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NateDawg 8/13/2018 3:19pm
8/13/2018 3:19pm
Paul333 wrote:
In those conditions anything between the advertising banners becomes the “Track”. At the speeds the pro’s ride that’s just how it is.
"Pros are so fast, track rules don't matter!"

Anyone who cut the track and benefited from it should be penalized. That's how professional racing works.
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Falcon
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Falcon 8/13/2018 3:27pm
8/13/2018 3:27pm
Paul333 wrote:
In those conditions anything between the advertising banners becomes the “Track”. At the speeds the pro’s ride that’s just how it is.
NateDawg wrote:
"Pros are so fast, track rules don't matter!"

Anyone who cut the track and benefited from it should be penalized. That's how professional racing works.
Yep. Anyone and everyone should be penalized for cutting the track. The rules don't say "anything between the ad banners." (They used to, but not anymore.)
wnorton729
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wnorton729 8/13/2018 3:35pm
8/13/2018 3:35pm
The fact is the whoever in charge should have called a riders meeting to tell everyone to quit cutting the track. It started going on in the first motos, to me they made a shitty attempt on stopping it. So no they can't penalize anyone for it. Lappers hey I get, but the top pros... come on, some were obviously cutting the track by choice. Oh and if I'm the track owner I'd be pissed!!!
KirkChandler
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KirkChandler 8/13/2018 3:36pm
8/13/2018 3:36pm
That was the one benefit of the repeater pennants lining the track, there was a built in penalty when they would get stuck in your wheels. The Acerbis yellow markers have no deterrent besides the officials judgement call. And when there’s multiple sections and a majority of the pack cutting the section there are not enough officials to catch every instance.

It’s like speeding on the freeway, everyone is doing it, it’s still against the rules, but can the cops pull everyone over? Not a chance. So people speed.

How do you police a situation like Unadilla? Do the official just start writing numbers down for every infraction witnessed and end up docking everyone a lap for each infraction? So some of the guys end up completing negative laps because they were off track multiple times per lap?

Or do the officials need to delineate the track better to eliminate the opportunity to cut? They tried in some areas retroactively (the right before the rollers). But other areas like the left before the Skyshot, everyone went outside the outside track markers and at the elevator, they allowed the right side to become the track.
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