450 class, embarassing.

bowser977
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bowser977 5/27/2018 11:29am
5/27/2018 11:29am
Well here is a list of guys out. Grant, Webb, Seely, Tickle, Wilson, maybe Craig now after yesterday.
TbonesPop 5/27/2018 12:10pm
5/27/2018 12:10pm
No MCR team or riders (Brayton, Friese, Weimer). No Malcolm. No Reed. Bowers is also injured. Tickle took himself out. Wilson got taken out by a squid at a local Cali track in practice. Regardless of all the people not racing (whether it be due to injury or other), the championship is still going to come down to the top 6 riders of Tomac, Musquin, Anderson, Roczen, Baggett and Barcia. Peick will be a consistent top 7 rider all season. Still plenty of good racing to watch. Not sure what people are crying about. Shoot, I would watch it if all the top 7 were out. It's racing dirtbikes, on dirt, with hills, jumps, and obstacles. I'm in. If you want fabricated drama, go watch NASCAR.
Park Boys
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Park Boys 5/27/2018 12:39pm
5/27/2018 12:39pm
At least all of the teams number 1s are healthy. Tomac, Roczen, Musquin, Anderson, Barcia and Pieck. Hopefully that lasts.
Ozy
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Ozy 5/27/2018 1:28pm
5/27/2018 1:28pm
Motocross IS a rich man's sport!! 10k for a bike 2K for gear. $100 day min to go practice. The learning curve is steep as hell and the stadiums have sections for paralyzed riders to watch

anybody starting to see a pattern here!

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JBecker 72
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JBecker 72 5/27/2018 1:36pm
5/27/2018 1:36pm
Ozy wrote:
Motocross IS a rich man's sport!! 10k for a bike 2K for gear. $100 day min to go practice. The learning curve is steep as hell...
Motocross IS a rich man's sport!! 10k for a bike 2K for gear. $100 day min to go practice. The learning curve is steep as hell and the stadiums have sections for paralyzed riders to watch

anybody starting to see a pattern here!
Motorsports are expensive and dangerous. This is not new.
zehn
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zehn 5/27/2018 4:41pm
5/27/2018 4:41pm
You idiots bitch all winter about SX then still find a way to complain about MX. Find another sport to follow and gtfo of ours. Did you cry this much when Stee went 24-0?
m121c 5/27/2018 4:51pm
5/27/2018 4:51pm
zehn wrote:
You idiots bitch all winter about SX then still find a way to complain about MX. Find another sport to follow and gtfo of ours. Did...
You idiots bitch all winter about SX then still find a way to complain about MX. Find another sport to follow and gtfo of ours. Did you cry this much when Stee went 24-0?
For a sport that is argueably one of the toughest and grueling sport out there, there is surely a lot sensitive egos in it. Heaven forbid we be critical about problems in the sport.

Steve should of never bitched about small berms creating bad racing, and coming up with nets to protect bystanders/riders so they could build the berms up... oh wait that was a good idea. No one should of bitched about the dangergous jumps at GH and made them go change it to be safer... oh wait that was a good idea too. Huh weird, bitching about problems might actually make it better...
yz133rider
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yz133rider 5/27/2018 5:37pm
5/27/2018 5:37pm
zehn wrote:
You idiots bitch all winter about SX then still find a way to complain about MX. Find another sport to follow and gtfo of ours. Did...
You idiots bitch all winter about SX then still find a way to complain about MX. Find another sport to follow and gtfo of ours. Did you cry this much when Stee went 24-0?
m121c wrote:
For a sport that is argueably one of the toughest and grueling sport out there, there is surely a lot sensitive egos in it. Heaven forbid...
For a sport that is argueably one of the toughest and grueling sport out there, there is surely a lot sensitive egos in it. Heaven forbid we be critical about problems in the sport.

Steve should of never bitched about small berms creating bad racing, and coming up with nets to protect bystanders/riders so they could build the berms up... oh wait that was a good idea. No one should of bitched about the dangergous jumps at GH and made them go change it to be safer... oh wait that was a good idea too. Huh weird, bitching about problems might actually make it better...
Boom. Any criticism towards any aspect of the sport always meets such emotional responses.
Fourth_Floor
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Fourth_Floor 5/27/2018 5:59pm
5/27/2018 5:59pm
Well, Tomac consistently gets a bad start and has to work his way through the field, which makes for exciting racing.

I have a solution to make the classes more competitive and more obtainable for up and coming riders....Make everyone run stock bikes. Same as Joe Blow can get off the showroom floor. Do away with the A-kit suspension, factory ECU's and all that other crap and lets see what manufacturer truly makes the best motocross machine. The jumps would be tamed down because the chances of front wheel casing a quad on stock suspension and riding away from it is basically 0% and the racing would be much tighter across the board.

es337
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es337 5/27/2018 6:04pm
5/27/2018 6:04pm
Fourth_Floor wrote:
Well, Tomac consistently gets a bad start and has to work his way through the field, which makes for exciting racing. I have a solution to...
Well, Tomac consistently gets a bad start and has to work his way through the field, which makes for exciting racing.

I have a solution to make the classes more competitive and more obtainable for up and coming riders....Make everyone run stock bikes. Same as Joe Blow can get off the showroom floor. Do away with the A-kit suspension, factory ECU's and all that other crap and lets see what manufacturer truly makes the best motocross machine. The jumps would be tamed down because the chances of front wheel casing a quad on stock suspension and riding away from it is basically 0% and the racing would be much tighter across the board.

Say goodbye to the aftermarket say goodbye to the sport
Fourth_Floor
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Fourth_Floor 5/27/2018 6:06pm
5/27/2018 6:06pm
Fourth_Floor wrote:
Well, Tomac consistently gets a bad start and has to work his way through the field, which makes for exciting racing. I have a solution to...
Well, Tomac consistently gets a bad start and has to work his way through the field, which makes for exciting racing.

I have a solution to make the classes more competitive and more obtainable for up and coming riders....Make everyone run stock bikes. Same as Joe Blow can get off the showroom floor. Do away with the A-kit suspension, factory ECU's and all that other crap and lets see what manufacturer truly makes the best motocross machine. The jumps would be tamed down because the chances of front wheel casing a quad on stock suspension and riding away from it is basically 0% and the racing would be much tighter across the board.

es337 wrote:
Say goodbye to the aftermarket say goodbye to the sport
Good point. Alright, only allowed aftermarket parts that the average Joe can get his hands on.
GuyB
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GuyB 5/27/2018 6:07pm
5/27/2018 6:07pm
Jeff_Crutcher wrote:
A lot of guys you’re calling a joke that would ANNIHILATE you. Just saying.
I agree with that.

It's unfortunate that so many guys are injured. But seasons like this also provide an opportunity for some guys to step up and get noticed.
rutsmash
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rutsmash 5/27/2018 6:43pm
5/27/2018 6:43pm
greenmx5 wrote:
Less parents are willing to sell their house and dump their life savings into a sport where only 5 guys make a living off doing it...
Less parents are willing to sell their house and dump their life savings into a sport where only 5 guys make a living off doing it. Cant blame them. That's why our sport is dying. Monster is making a killing while the riders dont get shit. Something is wrong when Reed carmichael and Stew made more in the early 2000s than roczen dung and tomac make now.
Its not about the money spent to immerse them into training camp type stuff. Its really about the entry money to just get a kid riding. Justin Cooper is a good example. He didn't do the "traditional" current model where a 13 year old kid moves to a MX training camp. He just had the raw talent and raced only during the summer while living in New York. The problem is the number of kids exposed to the sport at a young age that have the ability to partake in the activity. If MX was like baseball, we would see a whole series of Ricky Carmichaels and James Stewarts. But the sample size is limited now because many kids with "MX talent" will never throw a leg over a bike because just buying a bike is hard for many parents. Hypothetically, if you could give every kid a bike this year in the US somehow, you would see an explosion of talent and progression of the sport.
KirkChandler
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KirkChandler 5/27/2018 6:54pm
5/27/2018 6:54pm
MPJC wrote:
I guess that the question to ask would be: What would it take to have parity deeper into the 450 class? Is there any good answer...
I guess that the question to ask would be: What would it take to have parity deeper into the 450 class? Is there any good answer to that question? Is that something we should actually want?
More factory level 450 rides to start the year. If each team had 3 factory spots instead of 2, when half the factory guys are hurt there would still be more guys ready to race.

Look at the 250 class, every team has 4-5 riders to start the year and when some riders are out the class still has some depth. Currently PC is missing Cianciarulo/Davalos, but has 3 top 5 threats in Savatgy/Forkner/Marchbanks. Star has Ferrandis/Nichols/Oldenburg hurt, but they still have Plessinger/Cooper as top 5 threats.

I don’t know why teams haven’t budgeted a third/replacement/test rider to start the year. (Like JGR did with Phil). It would make a lot of sense instead of struggling to get a replacement up to speed.
Travis_Hudson 5/27/2018 8:11pm
5/27/2018 8:11pm
KennyT wrote:
I would love to see one premier class with the top riders. If the top 10-15 on 250’s were in the 450 class it would be...
I would love to see one premier class with the top riders. If the top 10-15 on 250’s were in the 450 class it would be much better racing. Nothing but privateers in the 250 support race. The 450 class is one of the weakest in recent memory
Not exactly.......success on little bikes has never guaranteed translation to big bikes...ever since 125's and 250's.
Tarz483
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Tarz483 5/27/2018 8:25pm
5/27/2018 8:25pm
Imo it's Cool that its Amateurs Taking a Shot
But I would like to see what would happen if they where all on equal equipment
If They Rolled 20 bikes out there straight from the dealership and set the sag and some clickers
Would Tomac still be that far ahead ?
I've always said and thought that it's really like 2 Different races going on at the same time, kind of like an A and B class
Guys on Factory bikes and Guys who Are not.
A Ray seems to back that up , never finished in the points
Before , factory bike and Running top 10
, but what I dont understand is why there isnt some horse power caps
Or ignitions or something to keep everyone in the same race
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wavslide1 5/27/2018 8:33pm
5/27/2018 8:33pm
es337 wrote:
4strokes are the reason this sport is dying
Hah!!! It's always been that way, 2 or 4 strokes. Bob Hannah in the late 70's at Hangtown lapping all except 2nd place Howerton. And 4 strokes were out there before 2 smokes. They've just progressed back past them. It's all fun to watch!
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flapper 5/27/2018 9:05pm
5/27/2018 9:05pm
yz133rider wrote:
Tomac and Anderson 45 seconds ahead of 3rd place musquin. After 5th place the talent level drops way way off. After the top 10 is a...
Tomac and Anderson 45 seconds ahead of 3rd place musquin.

After 5th place the talent level drops way way off.
After the top 10 is a joke essentially.

Whos the last top 250 guy to move up? Webb? Who else?

Theres no talent left in the 450 class between injuries and retirement its insane.

Move up all the factory 250 guys and the 450 class might actually have some talent/depth.
3 digit guys in the top 10.
Why don't they move up? How a bout the availability of a 450 ride!! There are guys who've said they want to ride
450 but are being paid to ride the 250,so what do you do,ride what they will pay you to ride or race on your own
dollar. Seems pretty simple to me!!

Pit Row

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yz133rider
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yz133rider 5/27/2018 9:20pm
5/27/2018 9:20pm
yz133rider wrote:
Tomac and Anderson 45 seconds ahead of 3rd place musquin. After 5th place the talent level drops way way off. After the top 10 is a...
Tomac and Anderson 45 seconds ahead of 3rd place musquin.

After 5th place the talent level drops way way off.
After the top 10 is a joke essentially.

Whos the last top 250 guy to move up? Webb? Who else?

Theres no talent left in the 450 class between injuries and retirement its insane.

Move up all the factory 250 guys and the 450 class might actually have some talent/depth.
3 digit guys in the top 10.
flapper wrote:
Why don't they move up? How a bout the availability of a 450 ride!! There are guys who've said they want to ride 450 but are...
Why don't they move up? How a bout the availability of a 450 ride!! There are guys who've said they want to ride
450 but are being paid to ride the 250,so what do you do,ride what they will pay you to ride or race on your own
dollar. Seems pretty simple to me!!
I didnt ask why they arent moving up...fully understand there are far more 250 rides than 450s due to the way the classes are currently. Doesnt mean i cant comment on the quality of the 450 field...
mx617
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mx617 5/27/2018 9:26pm
5/27/2018 9:26pm
yz133rider wrote:
Phil nicoletti and bagget finished in the top 10 and their fastest laps were 8+ seconds slower than tomacs. The talent level is so bad its...
Phil nicoletti and bagget finished in the top 10 and their fastest laps were 8+ seconds slower than tomacs. The talent level is so bad its insane.

Seriously besides webb what top 250 guys have moved up in the last 3 years?
Problem isnt talent outside of the top 5. Problem is tomac, ando, and mushy are 2-3 sec a lap faster than everyone else. Take them out of the equation and it's a tight moto. Except then someone else figures it out and will dominate. Nature of the sport, been that way since day 1 and isn't going to change anytime soon.
Mr. G
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Mr. G 5/27/2018 11:32pm
5/27/2018 11:32pm
Run what you brung. No rules. Let the chips fall where they may. That would be fun.
roninho
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roninho 5/28/2018 1:18am
5/28/2018 1:18am
rutsmash wrote:
Its not about the money spent to immerse them into training camp type stuff. Its really about the entry money to just get a kid riding...
Its not about the money spent to immerse them into training camp type stuff. Its really about the entry money to just get a kid riding. Justin Cooper is a good example. He didn't do the "traditional" current model where a 13 year old kid moves to a MX training camp. He just had the raw talent and raced only during the summer while living in New York. The problem is the number of kids exposed to the sport at a young age that have the ability to partake in the activity. If MX was like baseball, we would see a whole series of Ricky Carmichaels and James Stewarts. But the sample size is limited now because many kids with "MX talent" will never throw a leg over a bike because just buying a bike is hard for many parents. Hypothetically, if you could give every kid a bike this year in the US somehow, you would see an explosion of talent and progression of the sport.
There are a lot of reasons why this sport wasn't and isn't a big sport:
* Costs
* Limited access to tracks: The density of tracks in a region is the exact opposite of the population density (= no tracks in urban areas). Basically for the majority of a population MX is not an option to pick because it is not available in the area.
* Dangerous: Many family's do have the money to spend on racing but simply don't want their kid to take part in a dangerous sport (which unfortunately it is).
* It is a tough sport: Even if you are allowed to race as a kid it is still a tough sport. Many (digital) alternatives are available which bring joy but not the toughness required
* etc.

I can see the e-bike bringing a solution to the limitations to access. If the costs of an e-bike can end up being lower then current costs as well imo you'd have a base to start thinking of growing.

drt410
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drt410 5/28/2018 3:40am
5/28/2018 3:40am
brimx153 wrote:
Top ten is solid imo and 10 to 14 has some good privateteer guys . But anyone saying the Field is nt week compared to years...
Top ten is solid imo and 10 to 14 has some good privateteer guys . But anyone saying the Field is nt week compared to years past is lying . K roc came around the first lap nearly last then pulled into the pits and still finished 8th !!. It's cool for the privateer guys .cause they will get great results this year. And a bit of notice . But People saying this is just the same as RC days is crap. If you think an old cody cooper .who s prob enjoying life more than serious training .on a privateer bike .Top 10 s in 06 field you are crazy and I am sure he would tell you that himself
Idk man go actually look at who you had in the RC days. You had RC and Pastrana, then Bubba and Reed later on, plus Windham and Tedesco... n thats it.
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drt410 5/28/2018 3:41am
5/28/2018 3:41am Edited Date/Time 5/28/2018 3:45am
zehn wrote:
You idiots bitch all winter about SX then still find a way to complain about MX. Find another sport to follow and gtfo of ours. Did...
You idiots bitch all winter about SX then still find a way to complain about MX. Find another sport to follow and gtfo of ours. Did you cry this much when Stee went 24-0?
Yup. No matter what the hell happens its just gonna b a bitch fest. Just gotta accept it at this point. For some reason the field “back in the old days” aka a couple years ago was always way faster, more talented.... even tho when you really look at it it wasnt and even when a couple years later they end up talking about the very time theyre calling slow lol.
Sully
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Sully 5/28/2018 4:20am
5/28/2018 4:20am
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
I hear what the OP is saying. 20-30 years ago, the AMA premier class was stacked with stars! Every name in the top twenty was a...
I hear what the OP is saying.

20-30 years ago, the AMA premier class was stacked with stars! Every name in the top twenty was a star!

Now... top 5, maybe 10 are stars.
The rest are fast amateurs who are taking a shot.
Bull and Shit. 30 years ago, you had RJ and Wardy doing the majority of the winning on 500s and 250s, with The Dogger and Stanton thrown in on occasion. On 125s it was the George Holland, Guy Cooper and Erik Kehoe show. Were there a bunch of recognizable names? Yes, but that didn’t make the racing any better/closer.
731chopper
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731chopper 5/28/2018 7:08am
5/28/2018 7:08am
Ozy wrote:
Motocross IS a rich man's sport!! 10k for a bike 2K for gear. $100 day min to go practice. The learning curve is steep as hell...
Motocross IS a rich man's sport!! 10k for a bike 2K for gear. $100 day min to go practice. The learning curve is steep as hell and the stadiums have sections for paralyzed riders to watch

anybody starting to see a pattern here!
Motocross is the poor man’s motorsport. It has gotten more expensive over the years, yes, but so have the other motorsports.
early
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early 5/28/2018 7:45am
5/28/2018 7:45am
A look at the Hangtown points scorers thru the years.




Spudinki25
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Spudinki25 5/28/2018 9:18am
5/28/2018 9:18am Edited Date/Time 5/28/2018 9:21am
Injuries have been killing the talent imagine if seely craig wilson bogle webb grant wouldnt have gotten injured there would be an extra 5 people battling for top fives. Then you have the supercross only riders brayton reed malcom weimer bowers friese and tickle ho got suspended thats another 5 battling for top 10 and top 5. Then within the next few years jmart,osbourne,savatgy,hill,ap,and ac will all move up.
So the class is deep but the injuries and such have killed it. So look forward to 2019 sx qhen the sx only guys qill be there and the injured riders will be back plus the 250 guys.
philG
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philG 5/28/2018 10:07am
5/28/2018 10:07am
It appears , that irrespective of who is fast and who isnt Cody Cooper can rock up and finish 13th whenever he wants
KennyT
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KennyT 5/28/2018 10:27am
5/28/2018 10:27am
early wrote:
A look at the Hangtown points scorers thru the years. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/05/28/264507/s1200_Screenshot_20180528_103709.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/05/28/264508/s1200_Screenshot_20180528_103630.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/05/28/264509/s1200_Screenshot_20180528_103749.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/05/28/264510/s1200_Screenshot_20180528_103816.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/05/28/264511/s1200_Screenshot_20180528_104346.jpg[/img]
A look at the Hangtown points scorers thru the years.




I think those results show throughout the years there is a pretty strong top ten and a fairly weak 11-20 field.

I’m all for one premier class and a support class. It would be like the trans am series, which to me was the best series in MX history

Post a reply to: 450 class, embarassing.