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The Golden rule, He who has the Gold makes the rules.
It is not fair to lump the AMA in since they had already approved them for amateur use, although DC is using them as a crutch.
It will be interesting to see just how many will speak with their wallets in the next buying cycle and choose Alta's and what that will do to the OEM's sales #'s? Would it be worse to let them race and win, or to piss off the MX community due to the "unfairness" of this issue? At what point do people stop spending money with companies that flip them off?
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ALTA in open class? Let's not start a voltage war the way we did with displacements. It would be dumb to test it against competition in real world scenarios to determine it's true potential and place it accordingly without detrimentally affecting the professional classes within the sport.
This is a lame ruling on MX Sports part, they should be allowed in open and age classes. That is where you'll see if the are competitive or not. Creating an e-bike only class will limit them since they are not widely available and there are not enough people with them to justify yet another class. If they did add an e-bike class does that mean you expect them to drop that gate separately from the ICE classes? If not, then there is no reason for a specific class. They combine other classes right now if they are smaller. Maybe not at Loretta's, but you're average race.
Not allowing an Alta into a run what you brung (even if it's a 500cc two stroke in a current model CR450 frame) Vet class is just outright mind-blowing, and very much stinks of OEM involvement.
Also, Alta is an OEM, so they are in on the conversations. We have been talking with them just like the AMA has, and just like we are with other OEMs. (And Johnny Deep, I don't use anyone for a crutch -- the AMA's opinion is the same on the Amateur National as MX Sports is.)
This is the bottom line: No one wants to make the same mistake in 2018 as was made in 1996. Let's take a little more time to get this right.
Which one of you have actually ridden an Alta on a motocross track at length? What is your opinion?
Check out Racerhead for a little more later.
DC
Racer X
Larry Hughes
Will they be allowed in 2019?
I'm not good enough to get to LL.
I can't afford to do either anyway.
Instead of being mad, I'm going to go ride my 2012 2 Stroke KTM at an open practice and thank God for Motocross.
"3. Electric Motorcycles
a. Electric Motorcycle is a two-wheeled vehicle
powered and propelled solely by stored electricity
(battery/accumulator), without the use of petroleum
based fuels. Racing eligibility will be determined
through supplemental rules."
Anywhere besides LL Nationals they are OK, not that there is anything else that matters. Until yesterday, I believe they were OK to use at anything except the finals, at least that was the common perception around here. LL Nationals probably account for more AMA memberships than any other MX related events, and LL gets to make their own supplemental rules, so there is that.
Loretta Lynn's is not a local 24-hour endurance race, and I have no idea what you're talking about or how that relates to a supplemental rules decision for the 2018 AMA Amateur National.
But I agree on the sound issue and can't wait for more eBikes to come along, and also ride this Alta even more.
I noticed you are from San Mateo, CA. Have you gotten to ride the Alta much?
DC
Racer X
DC
Racer X
Pit Row
And how many guys would be pissed if they were allowed to race an alta this year only to be told next year that they couldn't because rules were changed and the data found disqualified the bikes from being allowed at LL? Not to say that's what would happen, but it is a possibility(even if only a small possibility)
I get where are coming from as far as any cc equivalency is concerned, but there is no legitimate reason to not allow the Alta into open classes.
We've seen Josh Hill go against factory 250f's at Straight Rhythm. To think it's faster than a 450 would make Stevie Wonder blush.
Bit silly this is even an issue for the "Open" class.
I've been riding Alta's for over a year. Probably 40+ hours across both the MX and MX-R and EX and Supermoto. 250F class IMO all day long.
250F v. 250 2st v. Alta - Yeehaw let's go.
To answer your question, I have not ridden it yet. Alta has given demos around here and I will absolutely ride it soon- I even saw one at Hollister at the Yamaha demo last Sunday and now I’m not sure if my next bike will be a Yamaha or an Alta!
Keep up the good work, at an accelerated pace please. The sooner electric-powered motorcycles compete at Loretta Lynn’s and AMA professional races, the sooner they will get new people into this sport.
Having worked for one of the current mx manufacturers and been involved in racing rules and decisions (in another motorsports product line) I can assure you it’s highly likely one or all of the current ICE bike manufacturers are calling the shots here..If that’s the case it’s a shame non- USA companies are calling the shots in a USA racing series over an American made product..
Regardless, how many times are we told it’s 90% (or whatever) the rider and not the bike.
http://racerxonline.com/2018/03/30/racerhead-13
If we have a 20 year history of data on 2t vs 4t, why isn't that being included at the same time if we are going to re-visit displacement rules? How simple would legal 300 2t's against 450 4t's be? And 150's against 250 4t's. It might not be enough, but do something.
Japan and Austria Inc. are buying time. In the meantime, we can buy an Alta, just not see it race against the best. Except for the MEC, unless they cock block it there too.
The problem lies in trying to fit everything into a rule book. The Electric part is getting top billing, but honestly they are making track time with less HP by using no clutch and an automatic. That is equally if not more status quo changing. When you have people beating top IC product and talent (like at Straight Rhythm) the genie is already out of the bottle again. If Alta is out to build the fastest bike, and succeed in doing so, no rule is going to stop that, or anyone that comes after them with the newest widget.
-a stand alone Ebike classs both at the amateur level(Loretta's) and the pro level
-a 125 2 stroke developmental class (at the pro level) with an age limit, and perhaps even mandating that 1 or 2 years must be spent in this class prior to moving on (14-16 years old). Say an east/west series both indoor and out. Its not like these bikes tear up the track, especially indoors. Two-4 lap heats, and 1 eight lap main indoors. Two 20 minute motos outdoors.
-a 250 class, 2 stroke or 4 (east/west indoors and the full monty outdoors)
-an open class, have at it-Ebike wicked up, 500 two strokes, 450 4 strokes-whatever. No homologation rule. Let creativity reign!
I know it is crazy pie in the sky thinking, but now would be a good time to really examine how we can breathe new life into our sport, and 125's I believe still play a critical role in our survival. Bigger tent.
Local racing, let the Alta go into age class and open.
They've had plenty of time to test the bike. And it has been used at AMA sanctioned amateur events so it's not really an "unknown" technology. It's been around for a few years now.
This reeks of OEM politics. It is what it is.
It's just that this time it's not one of the big 5 who have the upper hand.
Let's not get crazy and start thinking that sanctioning bodies run the show or that OEM's care about learning from past mistakes. Just follow the money.
They're doing what makes business sense. The major mfg's have invested heavily into MX racing. Alta has not. Alta has to go thru the rough period like KTM did before they will be in equal footing, and it has nothing to do with technology or R&D.
Post a reply to: MX Sports & Electric Motorcycles