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Their excuse is they don't want to make the same mistake that they fail to point out they are still doing nothing about. They admit they half assed it with the 4 strokes. They made a rule while admittedly being ignorant and without testing. Apparently they can exempt a rule but can not amend it as things evolve, couldn't say 450cc is to much and give manufacturers a few years grace period to knock 100cc off? No one ran off after the production rule so why would reducing displacement with time to adjust do it? Or just increase the 2 strokes to match? Stupid!
To hear him talking about quiet and clean vs loud and dirty made me laugh pretty hard. They said 4 strokes would benefit us BC they're cleaner. Instead prices went up, tracks closed and my ama district disappeared. They couldn't care less about any of that environmental stuff. They want money for doing nothing. Surprised the people who are making the decisions for us are just now deciding they might want to try riding one of these electric bikes? Think borrowing a last years model will give him the best picture of what the unknown advancements might be on technology rapidly advancing? I'm certainly not claiming to be a genius or even know what I'm talking about but they must have skipped the day they taught scientific method in high school.
Sorry for the rant and venting, ive always seen it like this and i don't really know why were discussing it. They don't care what you think, they don't care about what we would like to see happen and it surely won't be considered when they do vote. Bend over and take it, your just along for the ride.
I am being "nice" in these posts as it's public.
these are the same things that make it "allowed" to run the 150 in an 85 class. by changing the name of a class.
but it's ok we know where and how it all works.
travis rode this bike, and we know 1st hand what it can do in it's current form.
but of course this is not the point. it's just a further blurring of the process which allows 64 riders to go a regional after milking that area with 8 qualifiers and ...........................
have a great day. it's time to go prep the track and water inside the tin can. have a great easter weekend.
ps..... as I finally got back to this place and re-read your post. THE ONE rule book i speak is the ONE that should be used and not be allowed to have so many if any supplemental rules. Specifically in case like above and so many other things that there needs to be somewhere or sometime when it needs to stop.
but not sure how much it's relevant any longer for me anyway. thanks for the text! and enjoy the nice weather ours well we are still indoors...........................
Research in: "bike is to good to be allowed to race."
The Shop
Now using vague stuff like "let the geni out of the bottle" and hooking on to someones piont that they hadnt thought about, as in, "what else is on the way".
Back to my original piont, no way are they going to admit that locking the redshift out is a mistake, well maybe in 20 years..
You learn from your mistakes BUT only if you own them..
I qualified for LL last year on my 125 for the Over 50 class. Even though I'm quite a bit Over 50 now, I was going to try again on my MXR. I'm not going to try on my 125 this year though. Just going to support my son and his quest to qualify this year. I will race the MXR at some local events though.
My son was in qualifying position last year at the regional before a crash ended his chances. He was going to try and qualify in the 450 C class on an MXR this year and on his 250F in the 250 C class. Now will be trying for both classes on his 250F
Can I ask you why the AMA/FIM/MX Sports haven't considered changing the displacement limits for the OEMs? It would be perfectly reasonable to set the 4-stroke displacement limits for SX & MX for the 2024 season to 350cc and 200cc ? That would give the OEMs 5 years to prepare their production machines to be ready. As technology improves, those smaller displacement bikes will be just as quick as today's bikes. Lighter 4-strokes with less torque will improve safety somewhat as well. The manufacturers won't need to develop 150/250cc 2-strokes much further to keep them relevant at those displacements too. This current generation of 450cc bikes and racers would be remembered in history like we remember the past 500cc champions.
What a sweet deal they have, whenever they screw up, the AMA takes the blame.
Set a minimum weight limit for the bike, 30+ old riders and allow elect or ICE.
Likely that age are the only ones who can afford them at this point.
On the local level they can combine those folks with other classes as they see fit to fill
a gate for racing. Billed as an experiment see what takers you get for next year?
It's more realistic to refine your guidelines after you actually have data watching races.
TM
The Rocky Mountain ATV/MC AMA Amateur National Motocross Championship presented by Lucas Oil at Loretta Lynn Ranch.
Either e-bikes are killed off or companies making products associated with mx/sx will be by the e-bike. Engine components, exhausts, oils, etc.
And then there go the major sponsors for these series.
Lithium is a mined product so what about CAT or Komatsu as sponsors? You get to actually see earthmoving machines in action at every MX/SX race so maybe there's more potential for corporate sponsoship there. Tesla and Panasonic are together in the large EV vehicle battery market so maybe they'll step in. Sponsorship dollars from the electical suppliers such as Siemens or Schneider could be absolutely huge. Who knows what other niche products will appear for the electric bikes. It may be like the 1970's when many different small suppliers developed products for the niche MX market and sponsored riders. That was a really neat time in MX.
Things will change but it may not be all doom and gloom. Pro Circuit was proactive when the switch to the four strokes occurred and hired a four stroke engine cylinder head guru and the team didn't appear to miss a beat. Maybe he's already got a electrical engineer onboard designing a Pro Circuit motor controller made of titanium with a carbon fiber cover or something
Pit Row
Alta contacted the AMA and myself (through Dave Arnold) to discuss homologation for AMA Supercross. After a lot of discussion the decision was made by the AMA not to homologate it at this time for SX because they wanted more data, and Alta seemed focused on being in the 250 Class. They also requested it be approved for Arenacross, and the same decision was made there. As I understand it, it never got to the point of Alta submitting a formal homologation application to the AMA. If they had, they would have that one year like Yamaha and other OEMs had to race prototypes, if it was accepted. But this is not a 125, a 250, a 350, or a 450, or an Open cc displacement motorcycle. It's an electric bike. It doesn't fit in yet because there is no electric bike class. and no one can pinpoint where it belongs at this time (and the evolution is going to be quick and substantial).
So the AMA has made the decision to let eBikes run in non-displacement classes until such time that they can use the race data and other information to determine where they should live. "Open" is a reference to engine displacement, not wattage or voltage or even prototype. The AMA's open displacement classes in amateur racing do not require homologation to compete, only the limited classes do. And again, Loretta Lynn's is a national championship, not an exhibition race/laboratory.
Everyone continues to keep an open mind while we try and do our due diligence before making any decision on the future about what class along with 2-stroke and 4-strokes this bike belongs in. But the bottom line is simple: At this time, the Alta is not homologated for AMA competition.
No one banned it, as Alta is saying on their social media. They never actually did the paperwork to homologate it. We are trying to make room for it to get data and info and also give Alta riders a place to race. For 2018, it can ride most places, except for the one race that requires homologation, Loretta Lynn's. If they decide to try to use their homologation now, it will not be as a 250, as Alta seems to want, and maybe not even a 450, and that's just part of the impasse (but it is the biggest part). Everyone--including Alta--wants to get this right.
Please just relax and let this take shape. We rushed it in 1996 with the four-strokes. That didn't work out quite the way anyone expected, so please understand our reluctance to once again rush a decision on new technology.
Flame away (or electrocute away).
DC
Racer X
I think a compromise could be adding a full size electric bike class to the program. See how that works and check lap times at LL compared to other classes. Take away a womens' class or a limited class to make room.
We have to ask ourselves if we want an electric future or a two-stroke future. If we continue to ride/race four-strokes the sport will downsize wholesale starting in 2025 due to generational turnover and cost.
Show me a 10K electric bike that doesn't need gas/oil/pistons/clutches/exhausts and sign me up.
Show me an 8K badass 125 or 250 2-stroke that I can work on myself and sign me up.
Show me a 10K 250F or 12K 450F that costs thousands a year to run, and I run away from MX for good!
Also, people quitting the sport due to the costs/speeds/injuries of four-strokes will correct the 1996 decision, in that the sport cannot survive without participants and their disposable income.
Perhaps a 250 and 450 mx curve as well?
Yet theres how many different C classes?
"The people who work all year to make it there and participate deserve to know who and what they are racing against" when previously stated that it can be ran at all other races. Wouldn't they know what they are up against during those races? I guess now that we have all the training facilities and a lot of the guys only race the qualifies/regionals and LL, they wouldn't know what else is going on in local mx...but again that would be another topic on why local races are dying and the only big turn outs are for those events...
Our sport is 80% rider anyway. So if I go to LL's and run 450 or open class, and get beat by an Alta, so be it. That rider was faster than me. And if his bike helped him do that, props to him.
Hell, if you think they're too fast for the 250 class, let them run 450 and see what happens. There's your research, right before your eyes at the ranch.
Imo, if this was KTM or Honda with an electric bike, they'd be there. Alta is upsetting the status quo, and the powers that be don't like it. Plain and simple.
This a typical David and Goliath.
Btw, full disclosure.
My brother owns a multi line OEM dealership where I buy all my bikes, parts and gear.
They've been in business since 1974. My oldest son is a manager there. So i don't take this argument lightly.
Although I would like to see him selling Alta's. I'd get rid of my 450 Kawi and but one.
So was DC saying that since you can race an Alta at local races that they're exhibitions? I'm just not sure what he meant by that.
-By your logic, that puts them into the 450 class and sets the standard. If that is the wrong standard, they F'd up. Again. This is the proper way to go about it. As DC said, there isn't a single team who wants to race the Alta at LL yet, so taking the year to decide on rules is a fine idea.
"Imo, if this was KTM or Honda with an electric bike, they'd be there. Alta is upsetting the status quo, and the powers that be don't like it. Plain and simple."
-Imo, you are incorrect.
Capitalism is based on consumption. Stop the consumption of oils/clutches/pistons/exhausts/engine work/ect. and many motocross businesses will not survive. Take sales away from the OEMs and they may pull out of motocross and Supercross. This would hurt the financial stakeholders in the industry.
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