Very Large Jumps

Bearuno
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Bearuno 8/27/2017 8:45pm
8/27/2017 8:45pm Edited Date/Time 8/27/2017 8:46pm
Extending this from we Average Joe's : have a listen to Matthes' interviews from the race in Indiana.

When you hear top Pro's saying jumps are too big, you know things need to change. I think it was Seely that gave a good description of a wild ride over ' Godzilla ' where he had spectators running from the fences.
omalley
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omalley 8/27/2017 8:52pm
8/27/2017 8:52pm
I think the other thing that has happened has to do with four strokes. Back in the two stroke days, tracks were self-limiting (especially in the 125's). Slower riders lacked enough corner speed to get the momentum to jump some of the bigger stuff (not that the occasional 125 beginner didn't try...).

Now you have bikes (especially 450's) where you can almost come to a stop in the turn, then roll the throttle on and jump something 100' long...
smrscott
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smrscott 8/27/2017 9:13pm
8/27/2017 9:13pm
Some are missing the point - the jump sizes are an issue at some tracks but its mixing riders that jump the big hits every lap and the riders that are kind of fast but roll those few jumps. That is the issue in So Cal. The main tracks used to have one big jump that 80%of the main track riders do every lap. But now there are two maybe three that 80% do. The huge jumps that only 10% of the fast pros are not not usually an issue unless you are talking about Pala. These jumps are usually when they link two jumps together and only a few attempt.

The jumps are not the issue, its the riders that are not doing the jumps when 80% of the riders are. Just yesterday I was riding Milestone and I came up on a rider that raced up the face of the jump and I was sure he was going to do the jump, at the last minute he chopped the throttle and broke on the face, I was already committed, I never follow any rider off a jump in the same line and that is the only reason I am not in the hospital right now. He landed half way and practically moved over right into my line and somehow I avoided landing on him.

If the jumps are easier, more C and real beginner riders will take to the main tracks, causing more issues, But if you make the jumps too big for still fast vets and fast C riders, the risk when something does go wrong is compounded. I don't want to fall from the sky 25 feet in the air when I am at the track having fun if someone else makes a mistake or a rock gets wedged into my chain, the connecting rod wants to let go or there is a funky kicker that finally bites me, It happens, a kid blew is motor on the face of the jump but if it has tapped 10 feet further up the face of the jump it could have been ugly.

There is a happy medium with 50-70 foot tables and 40-60 foot doubles. No jump on a local track should be much longer than a supercross triple unless there is a long landing that has two places to set down, one at the top of the and another slight step further down the ramp. Cahuilla has the start/finish line table like that, you can hit it hard and land at the second decent or jump and land just as the table starts to crest over. Safe and great for two different level riders.

This argument has been going on ever since double jumps were invented and as suspension has evolved. Its always too small or too big for someone - that could also be a euphemism for insecure riders! LOL
1
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 8/27/2017 9:22pm
8/27/2017 9:22pm
I'm 54 and I still ride. I don't always jump the big jumps. Why? Because, I'm 54 & I've seen it all. Been there, done that, seen the scar tissue.

I spend A LOT of my time on Vet tracks working on my "embarassingly slow" corner speed (or "non-speed"?) and I jump what I want and I DON'T jump the jumps that scare the shit out of me.

It's up to me.

There's an old Steve McQueen quote that belongs here...

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tylermx967
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tylermx967 8/27/2017 9:37pm
8/27/2017 9:37pm
I WOUDINT DO THE BIGGEST JUMPS ON CYCUL RANCH EVEN ON A DOUBLE DARE MY FAVERITE PART FO THE TRACKS IS WHEN THEY HAVE THE BOWL TURNS
seth505
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seth505 8/27/2017 9:59pm
8/27/2017 9:59pm Edited Date/Time 8/28/2017 7:13am
Just a thought, if someone breaks a bunch of bones on the same jump I don't think it's the jump/tracks fault.
TheOriginalPancakee 8/27/2017 10:02pm
8/27/2017 10:02pm
tylermx967 wrote:
I WOUDINT DO THE BIGGEST JUMPS ON CYCUL RANCH EVEN ON A DOUBLE DARE MY FAVERITE PART FO THE TRACKS IS WHEN THEY HAVE THE BOWL...
I WOUDINT DO THE BIGGEST JUMPS ON CYCUL RANCH EVEN ON A DOUBLE DARE MY FAVERITE PART FO THE TRACKS IS WHEN THEY HAVE THE BOWL TURNS
That's the spirit
MotoX85
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MotoX85 8/27/2017 10:02pm
8/27/2017 10:02pm
m.hardesty16 wrote:
Some recently have started to come out and say local mx tracks have way to big of jumps including some pro riders like Canard commenting that...
Some recently have started to come out and say local mx tracks have way to big of jumps including some pro riders like Canard commenting that the risk factor isn't worth it especially if you have a wife and kids to go home to. I hope this goes somewhere as I agree, I like jumps its my favorite part of riding but most riders are C and some B class and with huge jumps there is no point and even some A riders will tell you that hitting huge jumps just aren't worth the risk sometimes, its really past having fun at that point. Today someone came out and rode with me at a track and they said they were getting married and didn't want to do some of the jumps he could normally do just because he knew he couldn't crash or he would ruin plans and told me about how he broke so many bones just over one single jump on so many different occasions.
The only problem with this theory is nobody is having career ending injuries because of big jumps. People may crash, may get hurt, but all the career enders of deaths have been on POORLY GROOMED or NOT MAINTAINED jumps.

People like to grab a topic, not really know anything about it and get everyone to keep repeating it until for PC reasons they go along with it, but you cant name 1 rider that was killed or paralyzed because of a TOO BIG jump.

The real topic should be that if there are jumps of size, it is the responsibility of the track to keep that maintained. And if that jump becomes an issue, stop for a moment and groom the track.

The next problem is, 90% of the tracks in the Midwest, don't even have an intermission for track maintanence. They are so worried about running 30 different classes and running 4 laps that they basically are unable to pause to regroom the track and let riders get a break and a lunch.

I came to race, not hurry up and go home.

Want to cover the real topic, which is NOT, jumps are too big, start the one that says tracks need to not run 30 classes a day and have an intermission for proper track maintenance and I GARANTEE you, you will not see as many injuries.

But that means less money, so guess whats NOT going to be the topic, Ill be called an idiot, even though we race 35 weekends a year, and we will be blaming big jumps again, even though there is NOT ONE instance of the jump being too big causing injury.
sumdood
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sumdood 8/28/2017 3:01am
8/28/2017 3:01am
RandyS wrote:
The absolute most fun jumps to me are giant rollers with the lip on the way up. You may only get 5 or 10 feet above...
The absolute most fun jumps to me are giant rollers with the lip on the way up. You may only get 5 or 10 feet above the ground at any point but you can land on the face, top, or all the way over 100 feet without dying. Seems like there are more in Europe than here but there are a few on national tracks. Between 4 strokes and jumps that riders below intermediate have no business jumping the motorcycle industry is doing a pretty good job of digging their own graves.
^^^This. Dirt's cheap fill in the gaps a little, at least on the vet tracks.
motomike137
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motomike137 8/28/2017 3:55am
8/28/2017 3:55am Edited Date/Time 8/28/2017 3:56am
This topic really hits home with me. My favorite track to ride is a well known track called Baja Acres in Millington MI. It has a few pretty big booters on it and more the most part they are well designed and relatively safe. There is one up hill jump in particular that got redesigned a few years back by the owner that used to be a combo of a short table into an uphill double with a pretty sizeable drop on the other side of it that was doable by most anyone other than when the double would get a tricky lip on it. I always felt that it could be improved by making the table in front of it longer because if you over did it your momentum would put you into the face of the double after it. In 2012 or 2013 the owner modified it by essentially shortening the double and effectively turning it into an uphill triple that takes total commitment wide open in third gear and if you don't get it right you would bounce off the top of it with at least a 20 ft drop on the other side. It also became that kind of jump that would worry you if you were mixed in with somebody who was going to jump it. I was kind of bummed by this move because it now became an obstacle on the track that I was unwilling to make the commitment to (I'm in my fifties but at the time was doing all the obstacles at Baja). It took a little fun out of my lap knowing that every time I came around there was no longer a half way decent way to approach that jump, it became an all or nothing proposition that I was unwilling to do. The majority of the guys in 50+ were the same as me would just roll the first part and bounce up and over the thing. Early this year a riding friend of mine who has been riding since the seventies and is an expert level rider got caught up in the heat of a moment and shattered his leg trying clear the thing. He was in a race with some younger fast guys (I wasn't there) and he is a holeshot master and pulled the start. He decided without ever doing the thing (to the best of my knowledge) to go for it and he shorted it and almost lost his lower leg in the process. The point here is that I agree with the folks that say jump design is the most important factor and these track owners should step back and realize who puts food on their table. Yeah it is cool to have that jump where only a few of the best and most daring riders will hit it but it kind of spoils it for all the rest of average joes that pay the bills and over time I think it causes people to shy away from the tracks.
smoothies862 8/28/2017 4:53am
8/28/2017 4:53am
as said. just make it wide to have a safe option. stay left/right not get landed on tables with choices on distance. jump faces built well. the go for broke or roll under people isn't for local mx. lots of doubles are perfectly safe out of corners etc. not 4th gear and you have a split second to see if the rider is shutting off or hitting it.
multiple tops pros say ironman has too many jumps. one uphill triple is enough for huge air, signature jump whatever. looked like a few riders scared themselves and got lucky on Godzilla.

ps combine some classes. Tongue Laughing Whistling
Flip109
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Flip109 8/28/2017 6:17am
8/28/2017 6:17am
You can make some pretty good tables and doubles and even triples safe. Just don't peak out anything. Allow plenty of room for error. Most importantly at a local level keep on top of jump faces. Also don't make 120ft 4th gear on a 450 anything. If you do make dangerous stuff, make it an expert section. Crosscreekmx used to have an expert section on their day track. You would go around a sweeper and you could go left about halfway through and hit a big supercross style double or just continue around the sweeper. It had a safe entrance and exit from the section. Now there were a few guys who got super brave and tried the double and broke bones. But they knew what they were trying to do and had the option of going the other way.
NJKawi913
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NJKawi913 8/28/2017 6:26am
8/28/2017 6:26am
Its tough to look at a track and single big jumps as an issue. With the techonology and advancements in bikes its become increasingly easier to to make jumps largers with shorter run ups. If your local track is full of obtascle that you fell you can't clear safely, than i think thats a sign you should probably take up another form or racing. Im not trying to sound harsh, but I have plenty of close friends who have taken up woods and enduro racing for the same reasons. This is also not a knock on those races either, i've done a few harescramble, and they are some on the gnarliest and grueling events due to the length and terrain.
m.hardesty16 8/28/2017 6:27am
8/28/2017 6:27am
seth505 wrote:
Just a thought, if someone breaks a bunch of bones on the same jump I don't think it's the jump/tracks fault.
Didn't say it was the tracks fault, its just that if someone is breaking so many bones over one jump its a sign its not all that great of a jump
m.hardesty16 8/28/2017 6:32am
8/28/2017 6:32am Edited Date/Time 8/28/2017 6:35am
motomike137 wrote:
This topic really hits home with me. My favorite track to ride is a well known track called Baja Acres in Millington MI. It has a...
This topic really hits home with me. My favorite track to ride is a well known track called Baja Acres in Millington MI. It has a few pretty big booters on it and more the most part they are well designed and relatively safe. There is one up hill jump in particular that got redesigned a few years back by the owner that used to be a combo of a short table into an uphill double with a pretty sizeable drop on the other side of it that was doable by most anyone other than when the double would get a tricky lip on it. I always felt that it could be improved by making the table in front of it longer because if you over did it your momentum would put you into the face of the double after it. In 2012 or 2013 the owner modified it by essentially shortening the double and effectively turning it into an uphill triple that takes total commitment wide open in third gear and if you don't get it right you would bounce off the top of it with at least a 20 ft drop on the other side. It also became that kind of jump that would worry you if you were mixed in with somebody who was going to jump it. I was kind of bummed by this move because it now became an obstacle on the track that I was unwilling to make the commitment to (I'm in my fifties but at the time was doing all the obstacles at Baja). It took a little fun out of my lap knowing that every time I came around there was no longer a half way decent way to approach that jump, it became an all or nothing proposition that I was unwilling to do. The majority of the guys in 50+ were the same as me would just roll the first part and bounce up and over the thing. Early this year a riding friend of mine who has been riding since the seventies and is an expert level rider got caught up in the heat of a moment and shattered his leg trying clear the thing. He was in a race with some younger fast guys (I wasn't there) and he is a holeshot master and pulled the start. He decided without ever doing the thing (to the best of my knowledge) to go for it and he shorted it and almost lost his lower leg in the process. The point here is that I agree with the folks that say jump design is the most important factor and these track owners should step back and realize who puts food on their table. Yeah it is cool to have that jump where only a few of the best and most daring riders will hit it but it kind of spoils it for all the rest of average joes that pay the bills and over time I think it causes people to shy away from the tracks.
Thats how most jumps are at budds creek, I went yesterday and was reminded of how bad it is at a track like that. The big step up is a do or die, if you tip the top of it you're guaranteed going over the bars. Same with the new uphill triple. Someone did it on a 250f and just barely makes it topped out, any shorter by like 2 or 3 feet and hes in for a ride, and theirs many other jumps there like that.

Also another thing, down the road is a much smaller track called wicomico which gets more business primarily because their track is more rider friendly.
BobPA
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BobPA 8/28/2017 6:46am
8/28/2017 6:46am
motomike137 wrote:
This topic really hits home with me. My favorite track to ride is a well known track called Baja Acres in Millington MI. It has a...
This topic really hits home with me. My favorite track to ride is a well known track called Baja Acres in Millington MI. It has a few pretty big booters on it and more the most part they are well designed and relatively safe. There is one up hill jump in particular that got redesigned a few years back by the owner that used to be a combo of a short table into an uphill double with a pretty sizeable drop on the other side of it that was doable by most anyone other than when the double would get a tricky lip on it. I always felt that it could be improved by making the table in front of it longer because if you over did it your momentum would put you into the face of the double after it. In 2012 or 2013 the owner modified it by essentially shortening the double and effectively turning it into an uphill triple that takes total commitment wide open in third gear and if you don't get it right you would bounce off the top of it with at least a 20 ft drop on the other side. It also became that kind of jump that would worry you if you were mixed in with somebody who was going to jump it. I was kind of bummed by this move because it now became an obstacle on the track that I was unwilling to make the commitment to (I'm in my fifties but at the time was doing all the obstacles at Baja). It took a little fun out of my lap knowing that every time I came around there was no longer a half way decent way to approach that jump, it became an all or nothing proposition that I was unwilling to do. The majority of the guys in 50+ were the same as me would just roll the first part and bounce up and over the thing. Early this year a riding friend of mine who has been riding since the seventies and is an expert level rider got caught up in the heat of a moment and shattered his leg trying clear the thing. He was in a race with some younger fast guys (I wasn't there) and he is a holeshot master and pulled the start. He decided without ever doing the thing (to the best of my knowledge) to go for it and he shorted it and almost lost his lower leg in the process. The point here is that I agree with the folks that say jump design is the most important factor and these track owners should step back and realize who puts food on their table. Yeah it is cool to have that jump where only a few of the best and most daring riders will hit it but it kind of spoils it for all the rest of average joes that pay the bills and over time I think it causes people to shy away from the tracks.
I did not check the content of this master piece. I just want to say I am impressed by the fact a single papragraph filled the entire screen on my phone.
motomike137
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motomike137 8/28/2017 6:53am
8/28/2017 6:53am
motomike137 wrote:
This topic really hits home with me. My favorite track to ride is a well known track called Baja Acres in Millington MI. It has a...
This topic really hits home with me. My favorite track to ride is a well known track called Baja Acres in Millington MI. It has a few pretty big booters on it and more the most part they are well designed and relatively safe. There is one up hill jump in particular that got redesigned a few years back by the owner that used to be a combo of a short table into an uphill double with a pretty sizeable drop on the other side of it that was doable by most anyone other than when the double would get a tricky lip on it. I always felt that it could be improved by making the table in front of it longer because if you over did it your momentum would put you into the face of the double after it. In 2012 or 2013 the owner modified it by essentially shortening the double and effectively turning it into an uphill triple that takes total commitment wide open in third gear and if you don't get it right you would bounce off the top of it with at least a 20 ft drop on the other side. It also became that kind of jump that would worry you if you were mixed in with somebody who was going to jump it. I was kind of bummed by this move because it now became an obstacle on the track that I was unwilling to make the commitment to (I'm in my fifties but at the time was doing all the obstacles at Baja). It took a little fun out of my lap knowing that every time I came around there was no longer a half way decent way to approach that jump, it became an all or nothing proposition that I was unwilling to do. The majority of the guys in 50+ were the same as me would just roll the first part and bounce up and over the thing. Early this year a riding friend of mine who has been riding since the seventies and is an expert level rider got caught up in the heat of a moment and shattered his leg trying clear the thing. He was in a race with some younger fast guys (I wasn't there) and he is a holeshot master and pulled the start. He decided without ever doing the thing (to the best of my knowledge) to go for it and he shorted it and almost lost his lower leg in the process. The point here is that I agree with the folks that say jump design is the most important factor and these track owners should step back and realize who puts food on their table. Yeah it is cool to have that jump where only a few of the best and most daring riders will hit it but it kind of spoils it for all the rest of average joes that pay the bills and over time I think it causes people to shy away from the tracks.
BobPA wrote:
I did not check the content of this master piece. I just want to say I am impressed by the fact a single papragraph filled the...
I did not check the content of this master piece. I just want to say I am impressed by the fact a single papragraph filled the entire screen on my phone.
I guess I should have googled this before I went into ramble mode. Thanks for making me learn something today Bob, I'm taking the rest of the day off.

https://www.time4writing.com/writing-resources/paragraph-writing-secret…

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seth505
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seth505 8/28/2017 7:12am
8/28/2017 7:12am
seth505 wrote:
Just a thought, if someone breaks a bunch of bones on the same jump I don't think it's the jump/tracks fault.
m.hardesty16 wrote:
Didn't say it was the tracks fault, its just that if someone is breaking so many bones over one jump its a sign its not all...
Didn't say it was the tracks fault, its just that if someone is breaking so many bones over one jump its a sign its not all that great of a jump
Maybe it's a horrible jump, but are other people getting hurt on it a lot as well? It sounds like that guy needs to not do that jump. I think it comes down to "not every jump is for every rider" but I see peoples point that it makes sense to have a "safe" track in general.

The ones I don't get so much is complaining about a place like Pala. They have THREE big bike tracks so who cares if 1 of the 3 has gnarly jumps that not everyone should be doing.
Bry745
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Bry745 8/28/2017 8:50am
8/28/2017 8:50am
Ron_Shuler wrote:
There will be guys that say man up and just do it but the fact is the day comes when you have either been hurt or...
There will be guys that say man up and just do it but the fact is the day comes when you have either been hurt or you just don't want to risk it anymore. Some of the tracks I have been going to lately it's been very obvious that every one is on the Vet track and maybe 10 people are riding the Main track with the big jumps, the funny thing is you would think the people running these tracks would get a clue.
I can relate to your first sentence. I used to have no problem hitting the jumps, even the bigger ones as a vet rider, but ever since a bad crash from a kicker on the old 'Chadapult' jump at Millville a couple years ago during the LL regional, I lost all my confidence and haven't been willing to jump anything but an anthill-sized bump anymore due to the risk. Laughing I've had enough broken bones and medical bills, and creeping up on 50 yrs old, I'm about ready to hang up the boots.

I don't blame the tracks though, because in most cases the tracks I've ridden are relatively safe because there are options for slower riders as well as the fast guys, and I think that's always a good thing. You can't get rid of all the jumps, or it's just not MX any more, but the 'do or die' type of jumps should be kept to a minimum, or eliminated altogether on local tracks IMO. Pro national tracks are a different story of course. I enjoy watching those guys huck the bigger stuff, although Ironman Raceway is a bit overboard with the gratuitous airtime.

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Evoracer 8/28/2017 9:16am
8/28/2017 9:16am
Had to 'man up' at a certain vet track this past weekend, only one jump. lol The rest of the track was overly tame.
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gt80rider 8/28/2017 9:26am
8/28/2017 9:26am
TheLsho wrote:
I believe that, a lot of the time, it should be the rider's decision to do the obstacles or not and there should be a safe...
I believe that, a lot of the time, it should be the rider's decision to do the obstacles or not and there should be a safe alternative if they don't want to. That being said, I hadn't ridden for ten years and I grew up in an era of doubles, triples, and whoops on almost every track. Where I live now the only time I ride a public track that has obstacles that beginners can't do is in Arenacross. There are no separators anymore. For me it bums me out because I like riding technical jumps and having features to strive for. When there is nothing to look forward too besides corner speed it does take some of the fun out. So if you have tracks with good jumps and hard features, I am jealous and be grateful you're not living somewhere with no options.
Back in the early 2000s, I was out of the sport for a couple years. When I came back, my local track had put in a monster, an 80 foot double with a real shitty landing. Well, me being who I was back then, I went for it. I have no idea what went wrong, but I crashed Hard and spent the next 3 months healing up. I only went for that jump because it existed. Had it never been made, it would never have been an option. I know a lot of guys like me, we have the balls, but perhaps not the skill.

The big money is in the C and D classes. Sucks that track builders always go for pleasing the 5 A riders they have show up, but don't build a track for the 100 slow guys. The same goes for bike reviews. Reviewers always seem to use former pros or fast A riders, but never C or D Joe Blows, who vastly outnumber them.

NorCal 50+
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NorCal 50+ 8/28/2017 9:41am
8/28/2017 9:41am Edited Date/Time 8/28/2017 9:42am
motomike137 wrote:
This topic really hits home with me. My favorite track to ride is a well known track called Baja Acres in Millington MI. It has a...
This topic really hits home with me. My favorite track to ride is a well known track called Baja Acres in Millington MI. It has a few pretty big booters on it and more the most part they are well designed and relatively safe. There is one up hill jump in particular that got redesigned a few years back by the owner that used to be a combo of a short table into an uphill double with a pretty sizeable drop on the other side of it that was doable by most anyone other than when the double would get a tricky lip on it. I always felt that it could be improved by making the table in front of it longer because if you over did it your momentum would put you into the face of the double after it. In 2012 or 2013 the owner modified it by essentially shortening the double and effectively turning it into an uphill triple that takes total commitment wide open in third gear and if you don't get it right you would bounce off the top of it with at least a 20 ft drop on the other side. It also became that kind of jump that would worry you if you were mixed in with somebody who was going to jump it. I was kind of bummed by this move because it now became an obstacle on the track that I was unwilling to make the commitment to (I'm in my fifties but at the time was doing all the obstacles at Baja). It took a little fun out of my lap knowing that every time I came around there was no longer a half way decent way to approach that jump, it became an all or nothing proposition that I was unwilling to do. The majority of the guys in 50+ were the same as me would just roll the first part and bounce up and over the thing. Early this year a riding friend of mine who has been riding since the seventies and is an expert level rider got caught up in the heat of a moment and shattered his leg trying clear the thing. He was in a race with some younger fast guys (I wasn't there) and he is a holeshot master and pulled the start. He decided without ever doing the thing (to the best of my knowledge) to go for it and he shorted it and almost lost his lower leg in the process. The point here is that I agree with the folks that say jump design is the most important factor and these track owners should step back and realize who puts food on their table. Yeah it is cool to have that jump where only a few of the best and most daring riders will hit it but it kind of spoils it for all the rest of average joes that pay the bills and over time I think it causes people to shy away from the tracks.
m.hardesty16 wrote:
Thats how most jumps are at budds creek, I went yesterday and was reminded of how bad it is at a track like that. The big...
Thats how most jumps are at budds creek, I went yesterday and was reminded of how bad it is at a track like that. The big step up is a do or die, if you tip the top of it you're guaranteed going over the bars. Same with the new uphill triple. Someone did it on a 250f and just barely makes it topped out, any shorter by like 2 or 3 feet and hes in for a ride, and theirs many other jumps there like that.

Also another thing, down the road is a much smaller track called wicomico which gets more business primarily because their track is more rider friendly.
Budds has evolved over the years. I remember racing amateur day around 1990-1991 and the ambulance was carting people off left and right. The jumps were insane. I showed up the next day for the Pros and they had cut DOWN a lot of the jumps.
Budds is a man's track and you have to really watch it on those dropaway hills! Doug Henry being the most extreme example. Plus there are so many jumps where all you see is the lip and sky on the approach. But I love the place before I moved away.
sesker15
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sesker15 8/28/2017 11:11am
8/28/2017 11:11am
m.hardesty16 when i saw that you where from Maryland. After reading your first post, I thought to my self. He must have just went to Budds recently.
swtwtwtw
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swtwtwtw 8/28/2017 11:44am
8/28/2017 11:44am
TeamGreen wrote:
I'm 54 and I still ride. I don't always jump the big jumps. Why? Because, I'm 54 & I've seen it all. Been there, done that...
I'm 54 and I still ride. I don't always jump the big jumps. Why? Because, I'm 54 & I've seen it all. Been there, done that, seen the scar tissue.

I spend A LOT of my time on Vet tracks working on my "embarassingly slow" corner speed (or "non-speed"?) and I jump what I want and I DON'T jump the jumps that scare the shit out of me.

It's up to me.

There's an old Steve McQueen quote that belongs here...
Yup. Perhaps the most talented riders are the ones who "pass" on the big jumps and rail everywhere else. The bigger problem for me is the predisposition of tracks to prep a 25 foot wide track that lends itself to a single useable line, But that is another topic.
m.hardesty16 8/28/2017 2:00pm
8/28/2017 2:00pm
m.hardesty16 wrote:
Some recently have started to come out and say local mx tracks have way to big of jumps including some pro riders like Canard commenting that...
Some recently have started to come out and say local mx tracks have way to big of jumps including some pro riders like Canard commenting that the risk factor isn't worth it especially if you have a wife and kids to go home to. I hope this goes somewhere as I agree, I like jumps its my favorite part of riding but most riders are C and some B class and with huge jumps there is no point and even some A riders will tell you that hitting huge jumps just aren't worth the risk sometimes, its really past having fun at that point. Today someone came out and rode with me at a track and they said they were getting married and didn't want to do some of the jumps he could normally do just because he knew he couldn't crash or he would ruin plans and told me about how he broke so many bones just over one single jump on so many different occasions.
MotoX85 wrote:
The only problem with this theory is nobody is having career ending injuries because of big jumps. People may crash, may get hurt, but all the...
The only problem with this theory is nobody is having career ending injuries because of big jumps. People may crash, may get hurt, but all the career enders of deaths have been on POORLY GROOMED or NOT MAINTAINED jumps.

People like to grab a topic, not really know anything about it and get everyone to keep repeating it until for PC reasons they go along with it, but you cant name 1 rider that was killed or paralyzed because of a TOO BIG jump.

The real topic should be that if there are jumps of size, it is the responsibility of the track to keep that maintained. And if that jump becomes an issue, stop for a moment and groom the track.

The next problem is, 90% of the tracks in the Midwest, don't even have an intermission for track maintanence. They are so worried about running 30 different classes and running 4 laps that they basically are unable to pause to regroom the track and let riders get a break and a lunch.

I came to race, not hurry up and go home.

Want to cover the real topic, which is NOT, jumps are too big, start the one that says tracks need to not run 30 classes a day and have an intermission for proper track maintenance and I GARANTEE you, you will not see as many injuries.

But that means less money, so guess whats NOT going to be the topic, Ill be called an idiot, even though we race 35 weekends a year, and we will be blaming big jumps again, even though there is NOT ONE instance of the jump being too big causing injury.
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... mr. roczen almost lost his arm due to his crash at A2, he said it him self in a racerX interview.
Also thats why Canard retired, he specifically mentions big jumps were starting to take a toll on him as he kept making mistakes.
m.hardesty16 8/28/2017 2:03pm
8/28/2017 2:03pm
NorCal 50+ wrote:
Budds has evolved over the years. I remember racing amateur day around 1990-1991 and the ambulance was carting people off left and right. The jumps were...
Budds has evolved over the years. I remember racing amateur day around 1990-1991 and the ambulance was carting people off left and right. The jumps were insane. I showed up the next day for the Pros and they had cut DOWN a lot of the jumps.
Budds is a man's track and you have to really watch it on those dropaway hills! Doug Henry being the most extreme example. Plus there are so many jumps where all you see is the lip and sky on the approach. But I love the place before I moved away.


Yea coming up to come of the jumps it feels as if im about to go 50 feet in the sky if I go to fast, ive seen so many people "carted" trying to do the step up after the start because they hit the top and go over the bars. I think the jumps are starting to scare people off, practice last weekend was pretty scarce compared to previous years.
dedi684
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Ravena, NY US
dedi684 8/28/2017 2:08pm
8/28/2017 2:08pm
Even the big table tops are sketchy. I always come up a just a tad short and bottom out so bad it sucks. Wouldn't be a problem if I was faster but I'm not that bad.
NorcalVet
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NorcalVet 8/28/2017 2:58pm
8/28/2017 2:58pm
... build us some vet friendly 2 stroke tracks
Because I sold my rmz because it was just collecting dust


And the masses will spend their $$$

And no gap doubles out of the corners, especially right hand corners Smile
yz133rider
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yz133rider 8/29/2017 2:45am
8/29/2017 2:45am
I'm going to look into some other forms of riding myself honestly. Have been doing more free riding, finding/making turn tracks and woods loops.

Used to love tracks,but they are all out of hand lately. Budds creek isn't that bad compared to other local tracks, hear me out... The couple big jumps they have, if you double them or roll them no big deal, there's plenty of track left, and time to ride on the ground, lots of corners, downhills, uphills etc lots of tine still riding.

Smaller local tracks all have turn jump, turn jump jump jump,turn jump whoops jump jump turn.

If you don't do the jumps, you are literally rolling around lap after lap not able to have any sort of fun.


What is wrong with having some straights, some s turns, some singles,or more forgiving jumps here and there,a couple big jumps is fine! But don't make jumps the entire lap. Let people actually ride,and corner,and rail some turns and real estate without either setting up for a jump,jumping,landing from a jump,etc.

That's why I say budds is better even as a timid rider there's plenty of opportunity to ride still every lap without feeling like its pointless

More tracks could learn from southwick,unadilla ,hell even iron-man has less jumps per lap than most of my local tracks. It looked way more fun to ride as a selective jumper.

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