My 2017 Alta Redshift MX...

MudPup545
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6/7/2017 5:10am
I would definitely consider buying one. My only concern would be how quickly the battery becomes outdated. Let say I buy this years model and two...
I would definitely consider buying one. My only concern would be how quickly the battery becomes outdated. Let say I buy this years model and two years later there is a major upgrade where the new battery last 2-3 times longer. Would I be able to upgrade my existing model to use the better battery? Because the technology is in the early stages I would imagine we might see advances come quickly. Even with that said I love, love, love the idea of buying this bike.
Good question. I'm primarily a trail ride and usually do around 100 miles a ride. Range is my biggest concern.
Markee
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Suffolk, VA US
6/7/2017 6:35am
Awesome review and feedback! I will say though it is very similar to what people were saying about the 4 strokes after a purchase, other than the sound advantages with the Alta. Traction, Linear power, feel heavy on the stand, no premix, usable power, etc.. etc.. Was the switch to 4 strokes better? Just saying.

As a whole, I don't know if ebikes will be better in all aspects of the sport, for sure in some. The pure fact of riding with out neighbor problems/disturbance is awesome. The stealth factor is very appealing. What isn't appealing is the cost. A lot of people complain about maintenance, I happen to love working on my bikes. So the lack of consumable maintenance I could care less.

Look forward to the future of Alta, very interesting.
jasonward73
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West Palm Beach, FL US
6/7/2017 6:40am
I'm no battery engineer (not sure if that is a thing) but I have followed Tesla closely and I own both of their current production vehicles so I consider myself fairly knowledgeable on the subject...

2-3x longer battery life in a couple years will not happen. That would be a massive gain in battery technology. Again, I have no internal knowledge of Alta's plans, but if I was to guess the next generation battery they release will probably give you 15-30mins additional ride time and be capable of more charging cycles. They may also be able to shorten the recharge time. The changes will be incremental in this manner. Doubling battery life from one generation to another would be quite amazing.
ktm212
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6/7/2017 6:56am Edited Date/Time 6/7/2017 6:59am
I'm no battery engineer (not sure if that is a thing) but I have followed Tesla closely and I own both of their current production vehicles...
I'm no battery engineer (not sure if that is a thing) but I have followed Tesla closely and I own both of their current production vehicles so I consider myself fairly knowledgeable on the subject...

2-3x longer battery life in a couple years will not happen. That would be a massive gain in battery technology. Again, I have no internal knowledge of Alta's plans, but if I was to guess the next generation battery they release will probably give you 15-30mins additional ride time and be capable of more charging cycles. They may also be able to shorten the recharge time. The changes will be incremental in this manner. Doubling battery life from one generation to another would be quite amazing.
THIS, people think battery technology is changing overnight. While it is updating faster than some areas it's unrealistic to think in 2 years they'll have something 1/2 the weight with twice the ride time. It's going to be a decade. at least. before the technology is there. Alta has been testing and developing this bike for years and the battery life is mostly changing due to the software updates not the actual battery. They might update things like suspension, footpegs, brake pedal, ect but you won't see a completely new model in 2-3 years or a big price drop, if anything new technology makes prices increase.

The Shop

BKoonts
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Jacksonville, FL US
6/7/2017 7:16am
Great review. I am intrigued. Also, let's hear it for 4 pages without a cross word. This has absolutely got to be some kind of a record! It is possible. I was beginning to wonder.
bluepumpkin
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Wheaton, IL US
6/7/2017 8:18am
I'm no battery engineer (not sure if that is a thing) but I have followed Tesla closely and I own both of their current production vehicles...
I'm no battery engineer (not sure if that is a thing) but I have followed Tesla closely and I own both of their current production vehicles so I consider myself fairly knowledgeable on the subject...

2-3x longer battery life in a couple years will not happen. That would be a massive gain in battery technology. Again, I have no internal knowledge of Alta's plans, but if I was to guess the next generation battery they release will probably give you 15-30mins additional ride time and be capable of more charging cycles. They may also be able to shorten the recharge time. The changes will be incremental in this manner. Doubling battery life from one generation to another would be quite amazing.
ktm212 wrote:
THIS, people think battery technology is changing overnight. While it is updating faster than some areas it's unrealistic to think in 2 years they'll have something...
THIS, people think battery technology is changing overnight. While it is updating faster than some areas it's unrealistic to think in 2 years they'll have something 1/2 the weight with twice the ride time. It's going to be a decade. at least. before the technology is there. Alta has been testing and developing this bike for years and the battery life is mostly changing due to the software updates not the actual battery. They might update things like suspension, footpegs, brake pedal, ect but you won't see a completely new model in 2-3 years or a big price drop, if anything new technology makes prices increase.
Thanks for the input guys. I was just kind of throwing numbers out there and I really don't have a background in this area so it was good to read your posts.
Micahdogg
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6/7/2017 8:18am
I think it would be nice to test an Alta vs. a 250F in a trail ride. Send a couple 50 year olds out for recreational riding and see which one lasts longer (stock tank capacity). I think that would be a good measuring stick. I would love to know if the Alta makes it or not, and how it is performing at the almost dead level of battery life.

Also, is there any way you could use a lithium jump pack (or two) to give it a little more range?
sybro
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Montreal CA
6/7/2017 9:06am
ktm212 wrote:
THIS, people think battery technology is changing overnight. While it is updating faster than some areas it's unrealistic to think in 2 years they'll have something...
THIS, people think battery technology is changing overnight. While it is updating faster than some areas it's unrealistic to think in 2 years they'll have something 1/2 the weight with twice the ride time. It's going to be a decade. at least. before the technology is there. Alta has been testing and developing this bike for years and the battery life is mostly changing due to the software updates not the actual battery. They might update things like suspension, footpegs, brake pedal, ect but you won't see a completely new model in 2-3 years or a big price drop, if anything new technology makes prices increase.
Sean , are you that Pro MX rider who sold him the bike over at T&C ?
PRM31
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Fantasy
6/7/2017 9:41am
Thanks for the write-up! Fascinating to read! This will fundamentally change the sport. I started on a 4-stroke (XR-75) went to 2-strokes (many) and later rode a 4T (CRF250R) and then back to 2Ts. 2T vs. 4T is not the issue. Now, the biggest issue is the difficulty to find a place to ride. I love riding, but the closest is 1.5 hours away. My RM144 will likely be sold soon as it just sits there. With these bikes, we could have tracks or trails everywhere. Pretty exciting! I'd miss the sounds, but at least I could ride! The big companies may not be worried about two strokes hurting their market, but they better be watching this closely! Battery technology has possibly the greatest upside in the world today. Certainly one of the top few. These bikes will benefit from the incredible amounts of R&D taking place. I can only imagine what will be on these bikes in 5-10 years. You thought a 125 2t was light?? Think of 125 2t weight with 450 power (or whatever power the rider chooses with a switch). You could probably run some form of spec series that completely evens the power putting the results nearly entirely in the hands of the rider. You can have almost endless traction control, power delivery adjustments...
F451
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6/7/2017 9:57am Edited Date/Time 6/7/2017 10:22am
Ben, thanks so much for taking the time to do the awesome real world write up! The Alta sounds great, glad you're loving it. I'm pretty dang jealous (and I've got a garage full of awesome toys).

I'm not in a position to be an early adopter, but I've been, and will continue to watch the development of electric dirt bikes. I really want an electric trail bike!

And to the Alta guys, here's a broken record summary of what we want (I know you know this but lets beat this dead horse some more, just because interweb bytes are cheap). In no particular order:

1. Lighter! 250 lbs would be great. 225 or so would be ideal! (and I know it "rides" lighter then it is, but still...).

2. Increased range: 100 miles of mixed mountain single track would be ideal. (If you need a development rider let me know, we have 100's of miles of killer mountain riding out here and I know where all the best of it is, Lol).

3. Affordable, hot swap, quick charging batteries.

4. And the big one, a more affordable sticker price.

In the meantime, great job Alta, I think you're well on your way to big success in this very competitive space. -Eddie
86honda
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6/7/2017 10:11am
What do your PANIC revs sound like?
F451
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6/7/2017 10:15am
Regarding the "stealth, I'll be able to ride it everywhere (or at least in a lot more places) without bothering people" ideas, I agree this is huge and a major benefit.

But be prepared, for trail riding, and possibly for tracks too, the anti-access crowd will still fight this bike tooth and nail, mark my words. I do think the e bikes being quieter is huge, and don't forget, no toxic gasoline to spill, and no hot exhaust system to potentially cause a forest fire (chances are low in the real world, but it is a concern, just talk to any forest ranger).

The electric dirt bikes will help us keep our existing riding areas and they may help us gain additional riding areas, but don't think for a minute the "fun police" won't be against them. They will turn their focus to something like "land degradation" in order to keep dirt bikes out of whatever area they are associated with.

This doesn't change anything, just something to keep in mind. -Eddie

86honda
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6/7/2017 10:30am
Thank you for playing Japan.

ben990
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Honeoye Falls, NY US
6/7/2017 10:38am
Well, I was able to get out on the Alta again, and this thing is still awesome! As many have said on here, it gives you more opportunities to ride.

I got home from work last night, threw on my gear (yuck, still wet from Sunday's rain race), and headed to my practice track. I had my son (13) take a couple pictures, and he wants to know when the minibike version will be available!

The track was super greasy from all of the rain, and was pretty tough to navigate, as there are a lot of hills and off-camber sections. I put the map setting on 1 (Honda XR200 mode?) and it helped! It reduced wheel spin and it made me feel more hooked up.

And the best thing about it was that my neighbor was in the front of his house doing yard work, and I am pretty sure he didn't even know I was out behind my house busting out a 30 minute moto. If he heard anything at all, he might have thought that my son was using an RC car in the driveway.


Red circles are neighbors, green circle is me, green thing that looks like a track is a track.


A quiet man is a thinking man. A quiet woman is usually mad.

More ride reports coming soon; I am riding tonight, and tomorrow I am going to compare my 2016 Yamaha YZ450F versus my 2017 Alta Redshift MX shootout, hopefully with some lap times.






F451
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6/7/2017 10:44am
You da man Ben! Lol.
ktm212
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6/7/2017 11:05am
sybro wrote:
Sean , are you that Pro MX rider who sold him the bike over at T&C ?
Yup thats me, my canadian compadre! lol
mac3-d
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6/7/2017 11:16am
To overcome charging at the track is it easy to swap a battery pack & how much would it cost ?
6/7/2017 11:29am
86honda wrote:
What do your PANIC revs sound like?
Have you ever heard a swarm of angry bees?
Fourth_Floor
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6/7/2017 12:43pm
mac3-d wrote:
To overcome charging at the track is it easy to swap a battery pack & how much would it cost ?
I would have to venture a guess that the battery pack alone is a couple grand guaranteed. Speaking of which, how many charge cycles are the batteries rated for??
6/7/2017 2:20pm
Wow, great post and review. Appreciate you taking the time to get into the details with us. Sounds like a really cool bike.
early
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6/7/2017 2:25pm
mac3-d wrote:
To overcome charging at the track is it easy to swap a battery pack & how much would it cost ?
I would have to venture a guess that the battery pack alone is a couple grand guaranteed. Speaking of which, how many charge cycles are the...
I would have to venture a guess that the battery pack alone is a couple grand guaranteed. Speaking of which, how many charge cycles are the batteries rated for??
https://www.altamotors.co/faq/#the-concept

Scroll down to THE ALTA PACK heading.
1000 charge cycles.
The battery can be swapped but they say it takes about 10 minutes and is heavy to maneuver/transport.
Fourth_Floor
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6/7/2017 2:47pm Edited Date/Time 6/7/2017 2:48pm
mac3-d wrote:
To overcome charging at the track is it easy to swap a battery pack & how much would it cost ?
I would have to venture a guess that the battery pack alone is a couple grand guaranteed. Speaking of which, how many charge cycles are the...
I would have to venture a guess that the battery pack alone is a couple grand guaranteed. Speaking of which, how many charge cycles are the batteries rated for??
early wrote:
https://www.altamotors.co/faq/#the-concept Scroll down to THE ALTA PACK heading. 1000 charge cycles. The battery can be swapped but they say it takes about 10 minutes and is...
https://www.altamotors.co/faq/#the-concept

Scroll down to THE ALTA PACK heading.
1000 charge cycles.
The battery can be swapped but they say it takes about 10 minutes and is heavy to maneuver/transport.
Damn, that battery should be good for several years of riding one would have to think. For an Alta owner it might be wise to put $1000 a year in a piggy bank for when you do have to replace it. Fucking hell I want one of these bad boys.
6/7/2017 3:11pm
I would have to venture a guess that the battery pack alone is a couple grand guaranteed. Speaking of which, how many charge cycles are the...
I would have to venture a guess that the battery pack alone is a couple grand guaranteed. Speaking of which, how many charge cycles are the batteries rated for??
early wrote:
https://www.altamotors.co/faq/#the-concept Scroll down to THE ALTA PACK heading. 1000 charge cycles. The battery can be swapped but they say it takes about 10 minutes and is...
https://www.altamotors.co/faq/#the-concept

Scroll down to THE ALTA PACK heading.
1000 charge cycles.
The battery can be swapped but they say it takes about 10 minutes and is heavy to maneuver/transport.
Damn, that battery should be good for several years of riding one would have to think. For an Alta owner it might be wise to put...
Damn, that battery should be good for several years of riding one would have to think. For an Alta owner it might be wise to put $1000 a year in a piggy bank for when you do have to replace it. Fucking hell I want one of these bad boys.
I wonder if Alta would consider a core return/exchange and cash for a new one? Would seem like a good idea; good for the environment, good for the bike, and good for the rider's wallet.
6/7/2017 3:49pm
86honda wrote:
Thank you for playing Japan.[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/06/07/199292/s1200_IMG_0157.jpg[/img]
Thank you for playing Japan.

At the risk of gaining the snowflake lable, I gotta say nuking Japan wasn't and isn't exactly funny.
Myke
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6/7/2017 3:56pm
86honda wrote:
Thank you for playing Japan.[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/06/07/199292/s1200_IMG_0157.jpg[/img]
Thank you for playing Japan.

At the risk of gaining the snowflake lable, I gotta say nuking Japan wasn't and isn't exactly funny.
I agree and this should be removed from the thread.
6/7/2017 5:35pm
Alta should make the OP a paid spokesman. I have never ever in a million years thought of buying an electric mx bike... UNTIL NOW!
mark911
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Ashville, OH US
6/7/2017 6:40pm
For local Vet type racing (typical 15 min or so moto) the existing 5.8kw/h pack has about twice as much capacity as required. In other words it’s like racing with a desert tank full of fuel.

From a battery pack weight standpoint I did some quick hand calculations and concluded the following:
Reverse engineering the cell architecture I figure the pack is made from 5 parallel strings of 100 Li 18650 cells. If 2 of these strings could be eliminated the savings in weight would be around 20lbs, probably a bit more as there are associated savings. The resulting pack would be around 3.5kw/h, plenty for a 15 min +/- 5min moto and result in a competitive bike weight of around 245 lbs. Although the range is reduced by some 40% the charging time is reduced as well making between motos charge ups pretty quick.

However, it’s never that easy. The remaining 300 cells now need to do 40% more work to maintain the same performance. Rough estimating says they need to provide about 33 amps at peak power while the stock pack cells are more like 20 amps. Consulting some current high power 18650 cell performance charts it appears that thermal control may be the limiting factor in this trade study. While there are cells that can supply 30 amps on a semi-continuous basis, the temperature of the cell really starts to climb and this has serious implications on cell reliability. Alta claims to have a good passive thermal control system incorporated into the battery pack, but it’s probably already close to being maxed out as even 20 amps is pushing things pretty hard. The whole situation is compounded by the additional voltage sag associated with 30 or so amps.

What can be done? Alta already has a water cooled motor and inverter, so it could be used to cool the battery cells as well. With the extra space opened up it would be relatively easy to add some water flow paths (ala Tesla battery packs) without adding too much weight. Of course, the current system uses the mass and exposed surface area of the main frame to dissipate the heat without a conventional radiator. If one needs to be added to keep everything cool it would probably add enough weight to negate the loss of cells.

Increase the bus voltage 40% from 350v to 500v. Increasing the system voltage would reduce the parallel per string amperage requirements but you need more individual cells in series to increase the voltage. The additional series cells cancels any weight savings and Alta has already invested tons of R&D getting their current speed control algorithms dialed in at 350v. Again, it's never easy.

Conclusion, maybe today’s and future advances in Li-ion cell capacity aren’t as beneficial as I once thought (weight wise) unless they improve the discharge ability as well.

HOWEVER !
Bottom line, I think a 3.5kw/h pack is possible using CURRENT pack production parts, manufacturing processes, and battery management system (with some software changes), but it probably wouldn’t last the advertised 1000 charge/discharge cycles and might fail unexpectedly. However, I’d be happy with only 500 or less cycles on a “track day only” pack and would accept the possibility of a complete failure!

I’m curious how many others feel the same way? A twenty plus pound savings is significant to us moto guys. If we can get enough interest (assuming my analysis is in the ballpark) maybe we can convince Alta to offer such a pack as an option?

And what kind of pack was Josh Hill running at the Straight Rhythm event last year? If it was a stocker that guy has nuts the size of bowling balls!
kzizok
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AS US
6/7/2017 6:53pm Edited Date/Time 6/7/2017 6:55pm
Didnt want to quote it because it was long, but PRM31 touched on something I havent given a lot of thought to. Spec racing. Close racing is exciting racing and, by nature, the Alta's take a lot of the variables away from ICE bikes. Spec racing would be so much more achievable. Lots of interesting possibilities on the horizon, and with some things we can't even anticipate.
dirtdog36
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426
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Nashville, TN US
6/7/2017 6:55pm
ben990 wrote:
Well, I was able to get out on the Alta again, and this thing is still awesome! As many have said on here, it gives you...
Well, I was able to get out on the Alta again, and this thing is still awesome! As many have said on here, it gives you more opportunities to ride.

I got home from work last night, threw on my gear (yuck, still wet from Sunday's rain race), and headed to my practice track. I had my son (13) take a couple pictures, and he wants to know when the minibike version will be available!

The track was super greasy from all of the rain, and was pretty tough to navigate, as there are a lot of hills and off-camber sections. I put the map setting on 1 (Honda XR200 mode?) and it helped! It reduced wheel spin and it made me feel more hooked up.

And the best thing about it was that my neighbor was in the front of his house doing yard work, and I am pretty sure he didn't even know I was out behind my house busting out a 30 minute moto. If he heard anything at all, he might have thought that my son was using an RC car in the driveway.


Red circles are neighbors, green circle is me, green thing that looks like a track is a track.


A quiet man is a thinking man. A quiet woman is usually mad.

More ride reports coming soon; I am riding tonight, and tomorrow I am going to compare my 2016 Yamaha YZ450F versus my 2017 Alta Redshift MX shootout, hopefully with some lap times.






This is what the benefit of an Alta is!!! Not traction, not weight, not charge time, not cost... it's being able to ride on your own land anytime you want and no one complain

As for sound... there is no sound in Downhill MTBiking and yet most of us on this board also MTB but don't complain about no sound. As for sound and pro racing: there is something to this, have you tried to watch formula E race? It's brutal and I can watch almost any type of race but can't bear to watch the Eprix
wildbill
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Christmas Valley, OR US
6/7/2017 7:00pm
Imagine the stealthy behavior one could explore while torquing up the courthouse steps. Whistling

I'd be interested in a dual sport, only because my surgeon said "Don't fuck this shoulder up again, I can't repair it."

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