What on earth is up with Tomac....

kzizok
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kzizok 6/3/2017 9:16pm
6/3/2017 9:16pm
Coyote wrote:
all of ya'll would be a head case to if this was your 1st time back at the track that derailed your career last time you...
all of ya'll would be a head case to if this was your 1st time back at the track that derailed your career last time you raced it...just sayin!!
He got third last year. Im sure its still pretty fresh on his mind though.
Dougie-D-768 6/3/2017 9:43pm
6/3/2017 9:43pm
I know Tomac won both motos at the opening round, but he wasn't "Tomac amazing!" He has rode well so far but is a step or two off of his elite level. I saw an article about an interview Dungey gave a French magazine where he said he lost some motivation with Ken going out at round 3 of sx. Don't crucify me but I think maybe Tomac has lost some of that Drive with Dungey retiring and also Roczen not here to defend the MX title. I think Baggett may have motivated him after Blake's 2nd moto performance. This could be real fun, with BB4, ET3, MM25, and who knows who else fighting for the win each week.
Dinosaur Media 6/4/2017 2:52am
6/4/2017 2:52am
LowPsi wrote:
Thunder Valley is where his career almost ended. Maybe he was just being smart.
Now thats a thought...
BobPA
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BobPA 6/4/2017 5:51am
6/4/2017 5:51am
mx 219 wrote:
the more I browse the forums the more funny stuff I see. never realized RandyS was a Tomac hater until about a month ago. Tomac may...
the more I browse the forums the more funny stuff I see.

never realized RandyS was a Tomac hater until about a month ago. Tomac may have choked and lost 3 titles (2013 W SX, 2015 MX, and 2017 SX), but he is human.

Freakin Dungey choked and lost a couple too. Shoot, he almost lost his first regional SX title (he can thank Canard for holding off Weimer) and he probably loses to Pourcel in 2009 MX if the Frenchy doesnt have bike issues.


Im about done with Vital, most of you guys are Monday QB a holes. This sport is very mental, it always has been. Why has Bagget struggled so much since winning his first outdoor title. Shoot if Roczen comes back doesnt set the world on fire he will probably start to doubt himself a little too. It is what it is. It gets to these guys, until you guys can do better just shut up and enjoy the racing these kids and young adults are human. At least they get to make a living or some decent money out of something they enjoy.

I dont know if Tomac had some kind of issue, but he rode better this week than last. Im hoping that he just didnt get much testing done for MX and gets a chance to do that the next couple weeks and comes out swinging at Mt. Morris.
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shaffstall721 6/4/2017 6:02am
6/4/2017 6:02am
He hasn't been the same since

1: his shoulder injury
2: the Kawasaki

Maybe it's a combination of both, who knows.

He definetly doesn't look near as comfortable on that bike outdoors, IMO
okieonayamaha
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okieonayamaha 6/4/2017 6:16am
6/4/2017 6:16am
Maybe I'm too simple minded. I just look at it that for whatever reason he didn't gel with track and/or bike. Settled for whatever he was going to get and move on to next race. Then just put this one behind him.
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Fourth_Floor 6/4/2017 6:27am
6/4/2017 6:27am
shaffstall721 wrote:
He hasn't been the same since 1: his shoulder injury 2: the Kawasaki Maybe it's a combination of both, who knows. He definetly doesn't look near...
He hasn't been the same since

1: his shoulder injury
2: the Kawasaki

Maybe it's a combination of both, who knows.

He definetly doesn't look near as comfortable on that bike outdoors, IMO
Looked pretty comfortable the first round...
Motofinne
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Motofinne 6/4/2017 6:38am
6/4/2017 6:38am Edited Date/Time 6/4/2017 6:40am
shaffstall721 wrote:
He hasn't been the same since 1: his shoulder injury 2: the Kawasaki Maybe it's a combination of both, who knows. He definetly doesn't look near...
He hasn't been the same since

1: his shoulder injury
2: the Kawasaki

Maybe it's a combination of both, who knows.

He definetly doesn't look near as comfortable on that bike outdoors, IMO
He had by far the best SX season of his career on the Kawasaki(he wasn't even close to this good on the Honda), he dominated both USGPs and Hangtown on the Kawasaki outdoors.

Who knows about the shoulders, that is only something we can speculate on and only Tomac himself knows if they still are a problem. My guess is that they are fine this year but he struggled with them last year.

I feel like the real issue is his own mind. He can't handle pressure and the expectations. We've seen it so many times, the second he is the favorite and he is getting "hunted" he crumbles. He is a completely different rider when he has nothing to lose and everything to gain.
RandyS
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RandyS 6/4/2017 6:39am
6/4/2017 6:39am
mx 219 wrote:
the more I browse the forums the more funny stuff I see. never realized RandyS was a Tomac hater until about a month ago. Tomac may...
the more I browse the forums the more funny stuff I see.

never realized RandyS was a Tomac hater until about a month ago. Tomac may have choked and lost 3 titles (2013 W SX, 2015 MX, and 2017 SX), but he is human.

Freakin Dungey choked and lost a couple too. Shoot, he almost lost his first regional SX title (he can thank Canard for holding off Weimer) and he probably loses to Pourcel in 2009 MX if the Frenchy doesnt have bike issues.


Im about done with Vital, most of you guys are Monday QB a holes. This sport is very mental, it always has been. Why has Bagget struggled so much since winning his first outdoor title. Shoot if Roczen comes back doesnt set the world on fire he will probably start to doubt himself a little too. It is what it is. It gets to these guys, until you guys can do better just shut up and enjoy the racing these kids and young adults are human. At least they get to make a living or some decent money out of something they enjoy.

I dont know if Tomac had some kind of issue, but he rode better this week than last. Im hoping that he just didnt get much testing done for MX and gets a chance to do that the next couple weeks and comes out swinging at Mt. Morris.
BobPA wrote:
Don't let the door hit you in the ass
Yeah, what he said.
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bama205 6/4/2017 7:31am
6/4/2017 7:31am
I disagree with the mentally fragile "when the pressure is on" he went on a crazy win streak when the pressure was on in SX, and now we are in the early stages of MX, not exactly full of pressure. In fact- I would say he is better under fire, and seems to chode out when he's not.
matze
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matze 6/4/2017 7:34am
6/4/2017 7:34am Edited Date/Time 6/4/2017 7:35am
bama205 wrote:
I disagree with the mentally fragile "when the pressure is on" he went on a crazy win streak when the pressure was on in SX, and...
I disagree with the mentally fragile "when the pressure is on" he went on a crazy win streak when the pressure was on in SX, and now we are in the early stages of MX, not exactly full of pressure. In fact- I would say he is better under fire, and seems to chode out when he's not.
well at that time tomac had nothing to lose and the pressure was all on dungey. As soon as he had the points lead he blew it..
Motofinne
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Motofinne 6/4/2017 7:34am
6/4/2017 7:34am
bama205 wrote:
I disagree with the mentally fragile "when the pressure is on" he went on a crazy win streak when the pressure was on in SX, and...
I disagree with the mentally fragile "when the pressure is on" he went on a crazy win streak when the pressure was on in SX, and now we are in the early stages of MX, not exactly full of pressure. In fact- I would say he is better under fire, and seems to chode out when he's not.
The pressure was on Tomac in SX? Seriously?

He went 5, 6, 8 in the first 3 races when the playing field was even. Then the dominance started when he had nothing to lose and everything to gain(zero pressure). Then New Jersey happened and he lost the title while he had the pointslead.
downard254
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downard254 6/4/2017 7:37am
6/4/2017 7:37am
Looks like Tomas is getting teamed pretty good here now that he's maybe not up to the potential results of some's expectations. Just like Dungey sitting out the last few MXofN, I'll bet if Ryan is reading this thread he's saying to himself, "He'll Yea, glad I retired now!", at least the bashing for him has pretty much stopped
Question
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Question 6/4/2017 7:53am
6/4/2017 7:53am Edited Date/Time 6/4/2017 7:58am
We will see next weeks but i don't think it is mental at all. I feel the way he rode was that he was super cautious. It is a track that caught him badly in the past, I think he was not willing to throw it away again in these huge long ruts. There is still lots of racing left and for me he was doing what Dungey was doing best, riding smart by keeping it safe if not feeling it at 100% and letting the championship come to him. It was just a bad day at the office, but he lost only 2 points on the leader.

Edit. The 1st moto he was not looking great so it may be a set up issue or maybe he was getting used to his new front brake if they changed it after the recurrent mechanicals.
ButteryWaffles 6/4/2017 10:29am
6/4/2017 10:29am
People are still surprised by Tomac's inconsistency? His speed and fitness have NEVER surprised me, his consistency and streak in supercross did.If one little thing is out of place for him, forget it. He can still win the title, but he will never be the champion we all want him to be.
DrinkMoreWater 6/4/2017 11:57am
6/4/2017 11:57am
People are finally coming around that Tomac's problem is mental not the bike, its the same with all riders look at Bagget look at Webb this sport is a huge momentum/confidence/mental game, you can tell Bagget was feeling it his body language was of the kind of pure confidence, you can tell what kind of ride or mood Eli's in just by looking at his body language.

His dad being a champion sure would help but I'm sure his Dad did not have such a privileged upbringing as Eli.. You can help "ingrain" mental strength but it's just not that easy or it cannot be taught it's more so an experience thing.

We can all speculate and say how riders are not mentally tough enough but most if not any of us here truly understand how strong you have to be mentally to be the best.

I've had a few drinks.
DrinkMoreWater 6/4/2017 12:22pm
6/4/2017 12:22pm Edited Date/Time 6/4/2017 12:23pm
MMCDan wrote:
I've always thought Tomac was too smart (IQ-wise) to consistently push himself to ride at the level it takes to be a champion in this sport...
I've always thought Tomac was too smart (IQ-wise) to consistently push himself to ride at the level it takes to be a champion in this sport. With all due respect, a majority of the current and former modern day champions are not what I'd call brilliant, and appear to have the ability to get comfortable with and/or just accept the risks associated with riding outside of their comfort zone. Tomac on the other hand appears to over-analyze and thinks too much about the consequences of mistakes at that speed and I think it holds him back during anything other than optimum conditions (e.g, track, setup, etc.).

Also, there's the mental side. I always refer back to one of Al Pacino's lines in Devil's Advocate: "Pressure. Some people you squeeze them and it makes them focus. Others, squeeze them and they fall apart."

Sorry, I'm a Tomac fan and completely frustrated right now.
I think you hit the nail on the head it's obviously he lives in his brain a lot, I did this comparison in another thread between JS7 and Eli as their best is pretty much the best in the sport.

James always believed that he would win every race, Eli know's he can win every race.
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drt410 6/4/2017 12:25pm
6/4/2017 12:25pm Edited Date/Time 6/4/2017 12:28pm
USMCMXer wrote:
I still say Tomac is easily the fastest of the bunch, he just needs to figure out how to limit the damage on his bad days...
I still say Tomac is easily the fastest of the bunch, he just needs to figure out how to limit the damage on his bad days, as they seem too frequent to be a regular championship contender, vice multiple race winner.
Exaaaaaactly. When Dungey would have a bad day he would get a 5th, Tomac can win by 30 seconds every day, but his bad days are usually very bad. Sometimes he doesnt even score any points. The old saying is you win champioships on your bad days. Couldnt be any more true. Hes gotta work on having better bad days to be a consistent title contender.


To say Eli wont win this year or be a multi champ is way too premature. He has the speed literally all he has to do is work on consistency. Thats much easier than being able to reach his top speed seeing that lots of people are consistent but only a couple riders in history have reached his apeed.

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tickleme20
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tickleme20 6/4/2017 12:41pm
6/4/2017 12:41pm
ET's always been hot/cold, but I don't think he's ever had the pressure coming into this moto season on him before. All eyes and bets are on him. The pressure was hard enough on cool, consistent Dungey - imagine how Tomac feels. Obviously he doesn't handle setbacks or pressure on the track quite as well as his 2017SX championship rival did. He isn't 100% assured of the quality of his own riding like Dungey could be. He knows he can and often WILL unravel, and I think that fear is what cripples him
Hut
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Hut 6/4/2017 12:45pm
6/4/2017 12:45pm
USMCMXer wrote:
I still say Tomac is easily the fastest of the bunch, he just needs to figure out how to limit the damage on his bad days...
I still say Tomac is easily the fastest of the bunch, he just needs to figure out how to limit the damage on his bad days, as they seem too frequent to be a regular championship contender, vice multiple race winner.
drt410 wrote:
Exaaaaaactly. When Dungey would have a bad day he would get a 5th, Tomac can win by 30 seconds every day, but his bad days are...
Exaaaaaactly. When Dungey would have a bad day he would get a 5th, Tomac can win by 30 seconds every day, but his bad days are usually very bad. Sometimes he doesnt even score any points. The old saying is you win champioships on your bad days. Couldnt be any more true. Hes gotta work on having better bad days to be a consistent title contender.


To say Eli wont win this year or be a multi champ is way too premature. He has the speed literally all he has to do is work on consistency. Thats much easier than being able to reach his top speed seeing that lots of people are consistent but only a couple riders in history have reached his apeed.
Season opener 1-1, Glen Helen he went 2-19 for 9th overall without a front brake, yesterday he went 7-2 for a 5th overall after going down in Moto 1
What should he be going for on bad days?
Just about every pro other than the goat has struggled a time or two for one reason or another. Doesn't make them mentally weak.
jorgechavez 6/4/2017 12:49pm
6/4/2017 12:49pm Edited Date/Time 6/4/2017 1:06pm
Motofinne wrote:
The pressure was on Tomac in SX? Seriously? He went 5, 6, 8 in the first 3 races when the playing field was even. Then the...
The pressure was on Tomac in SX? Seriously?

He went 5, 6, 8 in the first 3 races when the playing field was even. Then the dominance started when he had nothing to lose and everything to gain(zero pressure). Then New Jersey happened and he lost the title while he had the pointslead.
You realize he was tied for the points lead going into SLC, right? To me, being in almost dead last going into the first turn tied for the red plate and only 2 rounds left would be the ultimate pressure cooker situation but he got it done and put on an amazing ride. Funny how people just seem to forget situations that contradict their theories.
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GuyB 6/4/2017 1:03pm
6/4/2017 1:03pm
Question wrote:
We will see next weeks but i don't think it is mental at all. I feel the way he rode was that he was super cautious...
We will see next weeks but i don't think it is mental at all. I feel the way he rode was that he was super cautious. It is a track that caught him badly in the past, I think he was not willing to throw it away again in these huge long ruts. There is still lots of racing left and for me he was doing what Dungey was doing best, riding smart by keeping it safe if not feeling it at 100% and letting the championship come to him. It was just a bad day at the office, but he lost only 2 points on the leader.

Edit. The 1st moto he was not looking great so it may be a set up issue or maybe he was getting used to his new front brake if they changed it after the recurrent mechanicals.
There's a lot of comedy in this thread, but I will drop a couple things in here.

They went back and forth between press day and race day on front brakes. They tried the new one on press day, but he was back to his usual setup for race time.

The issue at Glen Helen wasn't a rock in the brake, but a rock-dented master cylinder. When he pulled it in after the rock hit it, it wouldn't release. They had a temporary carbon guard on it this week, but will have a better solution next week.

As for yesterday, I heard that he was dealing with arm pump.
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Park Boys 6/4/2017 1:19pm
6/4/2017 1:19pm
Tomac is still the only guy in the class right now that is disappinted with second place.
Hut
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Hut 6/4/2017 1:20pm
6/4/2017 1:20pm
GuyB wrote:
There's a lot of comedy in this thread, but I will drop a couple things in here. They went back and forth between press day and...
There's a lot of comedy in this thread, but I will drop a couple things in here.

They went back and forth between press day and race day on front brakes. They tried the new one on press day, but he was back to his usual setup for race time.

The issue at Glen Helen wasn't a rock in the brake, but a rock-dented master cylinder. When he pulled it in after the rock hit it, it wouldn't release. They had a temporary carbon guard on it this week, but will have a better solution next week.

As for yesterday, I heard that he was dealing with arm pump.
Thanks for info. Damaged master cylinder makes sense with what we saw on TV.
USMCMXer
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USMCMXer 6/4/2017 1:21pm
6/4/2017 1:21pm Edited Date/Time 6/4/2017 1:21pm
mx 219 wrote:
the more I browse the forums the more funny stuff I see. never realized RandyS was a Tomac hater until about a month ago. Tomac may...
the more I browse the forums the more funny stuff I see.

never realized RandyS was a Tomac hater until about a month ago. Tomac may have choked and lost 3 titles (2013 W SX, 2015 MX, and 2017 SX), but he is human.

Freakin Dungey choked and lost a couple too. Shoot, he almost lost his first regional SX title (he can thank Canard for holding off Weimer) and he probably loses to Pourcel in 2009 MX if the Frenchy doesnt have bike issues.


Im about done with Vital, most of you guys are Monday QB a holes. This sport is very mental, it always has been. Why has Bagget struggled so much since winning his first outdoor title. Shoot if Roczen comes back doesnt set the world on fire he will probably start to doubt himself a little too. It is what it is. It gets to these guys, until you guys can do better just shut up and enjoy the racing these kids and young adults are human. At least they get to make a living or some decent money out of something they enjoy.

I dont know if Tomac had some kind of issue, but he rode better this week than last. Im hoping that he just didnt get much testing done for MX and gets a chance to do that the next couple weeks and comes out swinging at Mt. Morris.
Bye Felicia! I guess it's okay for you to be a Dungey hater (or anyone not named Tomac), but RandyS is the a-hole? Go to your safe space, get a puppy and watch Eli bounce back just fine from a rough few weeks. It's alright man, we're here for you.Kissing
Turbojez
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Turbojez 6/4/2017 1:42pm
6/4/2017 1:42pm
davistld01 wrote:
I'm selling tickets for the El Chupacabra wagon...get 'em while their cheap. Cool
Count me in!
2WheelPilot 6/4/2017 2:05pm
6/4/2017 2:05pm
davistld01 wrote:
I'm selling tickets for the El Chupacabra wagon...get 'em while their cheap. Cool
I'll take one. I always loved watching Bagget on the 250. He did some amazing things. I've been hoping that he'd be able to do the same on a 450. This is the first time, IMO, that he's looked like the old El Chupacabra on a 450.

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