Add Superchargers/Tubos to MX/SX!

HonDawg17
Edited Date/Time 3/10/2017 8:49am
Why haven't we adapted turbos or superchargers into motocross and supercross yet? The AMA rules clearly state you CANNOT use them. I say allow them to only put them on 250F's. Then have a 250 class and 250 Turbo class.

The average HP increase in a boost kit is around 55%. So the average stock 250F could get around 62HP in theory! I wouldn't put one on a 450 which would be about 96HP. But adding one to a 250 2-stroke would be about 72HP.

#'s I used for calculations:
250F stock: 40HP Boosted: 62HP
250 2-stroke: 47HP Boosted: 72HP
450F stock: 62HP Boosted: 96HP

Guessing around 7-10lbs of boost...

So the big question: Why Not?

Here's the AMA rules:



Dump the rule and let r BUCK!
|
hvaughn88
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hvaughn88 3/9/2017 2:07pm
3/9/2017 2:07pm
I believe you may have just asked, and answered, your own question.
bobojim
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bobojim 3/9/2017 2:16pm
3/9/2017 2:16pm
The power to weight ratio on bikes sucks these days. They need more.
HonDawg17 3/9/2017 2:17pm
3/9/2017 2:17pm
I know because the rule is there...But get rid of it. How would the sport react to that change if they decided to go with it?
My original question was the wrong one...
731chopper
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731chopper 3/9/2017 2:43pm
3/9/2017 2:43pm
It's unnecessary.

The Shop

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kzizok
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kzizok 3/9/2017 3:03pm
3/9/2017 3:03pm


Someone should call the guards so that they can prepare the dumbgeon for a new visitor.
ti473
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ti473 3/9/2017 3:04pm
3/9/2017 3:04pm
Iz you fer real dawg?
RyanD797
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RyanD797 3/9/2017 3:08pm
3/9/2017 3:08pm
By your numbers there, wouldn't it be cheaper and more reliable to buy a 450f.

Or..

They already have a class for 250f's with 62hp, its called the 450 class Smile
jj welks
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jj welks 3/9/2017 3:08pm
3/9/2017 3:08pm
This guy can't be serious
Question
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Question 3/9/2017 3:17pm
3/9/2017 3:17pm
Put a twin as well. A 450 twin bored to 530, plus the turbo, plus compressor, plus nos to leap some rhythm sections or get from the 1st whoops to the last, plus an engineering/mapping to have no bottom but a raging 125 like engine (or road racing), then we should be up to 200 hp. Issue, no human can ride it.
extremeadversary 3/9/2017 3:29pm
3/9/2017 3:29pm
Besides packaging and weight issues, how will you possibly keep the engine temperature cool enough not to grenade within minutes?
Matt6505
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Matt6505 3/9/2017 3:29pm
3/9/2017 3:29pm
Why stop there? why not throw a supercharger on there as well, or just stop half assing it and run jet engines
DPW
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DPW 3/9/2017 3:42pm
3/9/2017 3:42pm
just add NOS simpler....be like excitebike
JW381
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JW381 3/9/2017 3:47pm
3/9/2017 3:47pm
Your posting history is just awesome
Dtat720
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Dtat720 3/9/2017 3:48pm
3/9/2017 3:48pm
extremeadversary wrote:
Besides packaging and weight issues, how will you possibly keep the engine temperature cool enough not to grenade within minutes?
Bikes are efi already. With the proper tune, a turbo will not increase engine temps.
dirtnapper
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dirtnapper 3/9/2017 4:15pm
3/9/2017 4:15pm
You can put helium in the frame to make it lighter too......
aeffertz
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aeffertz 3/9/2017 4:29pm
3/9/2017 4:29pm
Honestly why don't they have V-Twins yet? This sport is just full of pussies that would too afraid to twist the throttle, that's why.
ed921reyes
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ed921reyes 3/9/2017 4:34pm
3/9/2017 4:34pm
dirtnapper wrote:
You can put helium in the frame to make it lighter too......
brooooooooo...... minds blown

but will if come down once you hit a jump or will you float away? should we tie rope around the frame and tie the other end to the truck?

Pit Row

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gsxr6
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gsxr6 3/9/2017 4:47pm
3/9/2017 4:47pm
extremeadversary wrote:
Besides packaging and weight issues, how will you possibly keep the engine temperature cool enough not to grenade within minutes?
Dtat720 wrote:
Bikes are efi already. With the proper tune, a turbo will not increase engine temps.
Now this makes me laugh lol. What about EFI keeps the engine temps cooler on a turbo in your opinion. This should be good. Even better what about all the heat that accumulates in the tubing and turbo? I guess EFI will just magically make that heat go away, just like in cars?
Dtat720
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Dtat720 3/9/2017 5:09pm
3/9/2017 5:09pm
extremeadversary wrote:
Besides packaging and weight issues, how will you possibly keep the engine temperature cool enough not to grenade within minutes?
Dtat720 wrote:
Bikes are efi already. With the proper tune, a turbo will not increase engine temps.
gsxr6 wrote:
Now this makes me laugh lol. What about EFI keeps the engine temps cooler on a turbo in your opinion. This should be good. Even better...
Now this makes me laugh lol. What about EFI keeps the engine temps cooler on a turbo in your opinion. This should be good. Even better what about all the heat that accumulates in the tubing and turbo? I guess EFI will just magically make that heat go away, just like in cars?
Engine temps dont change. Ive built dozens of turbo cars and a few turbo hyabusas. The turbo and the manifold reach normal temps when the AFR is correct, hence the EFI. Mapping for a turbo, you would not see any increase in engine temp. you would not see any exhaust temp increases with proper tuning. Anything else you are dying to know einstein?
Skidaddle
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Skidaddle 3/9/2017 5:15pm
3/9/2017 5:15pm
No. These guys took 15 years too long to get EFI just on a 4 stroke and still don't have shit for 2 strokes which should have happened in 1995 at the latest.. Can you imagine how long it would take these guys to figure this out?

They would have to hire all the aftermarket snowmobile companies to help them. (Not a bad thing, the technology is ahead 20 years)

BTW my 5 Hundy KTM is running 14 lbs of boost. About 105 HP. Still a fuckin turd with a mountain horse kit. Fun though.

And yes, a turbo builds more engine heat, but with a proper map, not EGT temp.
That's simply a product of "Jetting" or Mapping.

These bikes already are too much for SX and MX. Go back to two strokes and call it a day.



Skidaddle
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Skidaddle 3/9/2017 5:24pm
3/9/2017 5:24pm
HonDawg17 wrote:
Why haven't we adapted turbos or superchargers into motocross and supercross yet? The AMA rules clearly state you CANNOT use them. I say allow them to...
Why haven't we adapted turbos or superchargers into motocross and supercross yet? The AMA rules clearly state you CANNOT use them. I say allow them to only put them on 250F's. Then have a 250 class and 250 Turbo class.

The average HP increase in a boost kit is around 55%. So the average stock 250F could get around 62HP in theory! I wouldn't put one on a 450 which would be about 96HP. But adding one to a 250 2-stroke would be about 72HP.

#'s I used for calculations:
250F stock: 40HP Boosted: 62HP
250 2-stroke: 47HP Boosted: 72HP
450F stock: 62HP Boosted: 96HP

Guessing around 7-10lbs of boost...

So the big question: Why Not?

Here's the AMA rules:



Dump the rule and let r BUCK!
The Data is inconclusive and the numbers are false.

You have to denote what amount of boost you are using before you can give even an estimate. You can't just say "Boosted"

A 500 4 stroke with about 14 lbs of boost will be around 100-110 HP depending on the level of other engine mods etc.
Dtat720
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Dtat720 3/9/2017 5:31pm
3/9/2017 5:31pm
HonDawg17 wrote:
Why haven't we adapted turbos or superchargers into motocross and supercross yet? The AMA rules clearly state you CANNOT use them. I say allow them to...
Why haven't we adapted turbos or superchargers into motocross and supercross yet? The AMA rules clearly state you CANNOT use them. I say allow them to only put them on 250F's. Then have a 250 class and 250 Turbo class.

The average HP increase in a boost kit is around 55%. So the average stock 250F could get around 62HP in theory! I wouldn't put one on a 450 which would be about 96HP. But adding one to a 250 2-stroke would be about 72HP.

#'s I used for calculations:
250F stock: 40HP Boosted: 62HP
250 2-stroke: 47HP Boosted: 72HP
450F stock: 62HP Boosted: 96HP

Guessing around 7-10lbs of boost...

So the big question: Why Not?

Here's the AMA rules:



Dump the rule and let r BUCK!
Skidaddle wrote:
The Data is inconclusive and the numbers are false. You have to denote what amount of boost you are using before you can give even an...
The Data is inconclusive and the numbers are false.

You have to denote what amount of boost you are using before you can give even an estimate. You can't just say "Boosted"

A 500 4 stroke with about 14 lbs of boost will be around 100-110 HP depending on the level of other engine mods etc.
Imagine running 14lbs on an engine that has 14:1 compression..... it would last about 20 seconds before grenading.
gabrielito
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gabrielito 3/9/2017 5:33pm
3/9/2017 5:33pm
LumpDog841
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LumpDog841 3/9/2017 5:35pm
3/9/2017 5:35pm
It's threads likes these that coin the term "vitaltard"
kiwifan
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kiwifan 3/9/2017 5:35pm
3/9/2017 5:35pm
HonDawg17 wrote:
Why haven't we adapted turbos or superchargers into motocross and supercross yet? The AMA rules clearly state you CANNOT use them. I say allow them to...
Why haven't we adapted turbos or superchargers into motocross and supercross yet? The AMA rules clearly state you CANNOT use them. I say allow them to only put them on 250F's. Then have a 250 class and 250 Turbo class.

The average HP increase in a boost kit is around 55%. So the average stock 250F could get around 62HP in theory! I wouldn't put one on a 450 which would be about 96HP. But adding one to a 250 2-stroke would be about 72HP.

#'s I used for calculations:
250F stock: 40HP Boosted: 62HP
250 2-stroke: 47HP Boosted: 72HP
450F stock: 62HP Boosted: 96HP

Guessing around 7-10lbs of boost...

So the big question: Why Not?

Here's the AMA rules:



Dump the rule and let r BUCK!
Gee you had better make sure your sprocket bolts are tight with that amount of HP
Kx125rider 3/9/2017 5:38pm
3/9/2017 5:38pm
That shouldn't stress the drivetrain at all.
twotwosix
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twotwosix 3/9/2017 5:54pm
3/9/2017 5:54pm Edited Date/Time 3/9/2017 5:56pm
I can't. I mean what I'm trying to say is... No, I just can't with this thread...
HonDawg17 3/9/2017 6:02pm
3/9/2017 6:02pm
I love coming up with these threads. You guys are awesome.
305FC250
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305FC250 3/9/2017 6:06pm
3/9/2017 6:06pm
450s are already plenty fast enough. We even have freakin 125s nowadays making 40hp stock off the showroom floor weighing 192lbs that can still toss themselves over some hefty jumps with ease. I love a turbo or nitrous bike as just a death machine to play around and show off with, but for serious racing? It just doesn't seem necessary. I'll stick with a naturally aspirated engine as they already have enough power to handle the current obstacles in an already insanely dangerous sport. Not to mention the added expensive in an already very expensive sport. No need to have people on boosted bikes jumping quintiples and octiples and shit... Again cool for showing off and doing crazy one-time stunts, but a bit much for competitive racing. Just my opinion.

It's also not as simple as slapping a turbo on to the current n/a engines being used... The engines are designed with the intention of being naturally aspirated. Compression is way too high the turbo or supercharged bikes would need an engine built to totally different specs for the purpose of being boosted.

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