Tomac a title contender?

jj welks
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jj welks 1/13/2017 1:32pm
1/13/2017 1:32pm
He looked like he was charging so hard in the opening laps of A1.. id like to think he's a title contender he certainly has the speed and gnarliness to be a 450 champ, only time will tell.
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1-forty-8 1/13/2017 1:36pm
1/13/2017 1:36pm
jj welks wrote:
He looked like he was charging so hard in the opening laps of A1.. id like to think he's a title contender he certainly has the...
He looked like he was charging so hard in the opening laps of A1.. id like to think he's a title contender he certainly has the speed and gnarliness to be a 450 champ, only time will tell.
Maybe his start was too good ya know.. Kinda caught him off guard and he tried too hard. You're at your best when you're relaxed and flowing.

Be water my friend.
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Motoxdoc 1/13/2017 1:43pm
1/13/2017 1:43pm
Park Boys wrote:
He was the only one on Roczens level at A1 at least for a lil bit. Needs to do it week to week.
Tomac first needs to work on lap to lap.....then week to week!
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RG1 1/13/2017 1:52pm
1/13/2017 1:52pm
TheOriginalPancakee wrote:
Do we not remember how fast he was at A1? He will get the arm pump thing figured out and bring the same speed he had...
Do we not remember how fast he was at A1? He will get the arm pump thing figured out and bring the same speed he had at A1 to the next rounds
We seem to say that all the time though. 'Did you not see how fast Tomac was at wherever?'. If he can just get this or that sorted out, he can win the title. But at the end of the day he can never find his top level for long enough to sustain a serious title challenge. He goes from best rider on the planet to 30 seconds off the lead, or vice versa between motos sometimes. The one time he looked like he had it figured out he threw it away by pushing harder than he really needed to.

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joeellis
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joeellis 1/13/2017 9:10pm
1/13/2017 9:10pm
I'm not sure I understand why everyone doesn't consider him a possible to win. Granted, he has a better chance outdoors imo, mainly because he has a better opportunity to fight back to a podium position after a not so great start.
I understand he has a tendency to crash, but let's not forget that 2 seasons back, he was totally dominating the outdoor season even though it was early. He had won every moto and was well on his way to dominating the next moto until the crash that ultimately took him out for the season and killed his training for quite some time. Yes he was pushing it very hard when he crashed in Colorado, but that section is notorious for mishaps. He was dominating Roczen and Dungey at that time, winning motos by huge margins.

That is why in my mind so many experts consider him a contender. He has the speed and talent of Dungey and Roczen. Let's not forget that Tomac won his final 250 outdoor championship over a very determined Roczen. I may not be the best judge of talent, but I see a guy that has just as much talent and speed as most anyone on the planet. The miscues, many somewhat unfortunate due to kickers, cross ruts, etc. The boy has game. That's why everyone mentions him every year.
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trailrider 1/13/2017 9:14pm
1/13/2017 9:14pm
Stamp it perfect season for ken
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GuyB 1/13/2017 9:31pm
1/13/2017 9:31pm
davistld01 wrote:
I like Eli Tomac...but this year, I certainly don't see him as a title favorite at all. He's not on the same page as KR, RD...
I like Eli Tomac...but this year, I certainly don't see him as a title favorite at all. He's not on the same page as KR, RD or even Musquin. Skill level...maybe. But performance capability...given his current circumstances, no. Of course, this is my opinion only.

Eli has never come close to being on the same lap time that he was on the Geico Honda for the last half of his last season on the red bike. I'm not on a "blame the bike" kick or anything...but I truly believe that Eli and John got greedy and bit the Green bait because of the money carrot that was dangled in front of their noses. The bike is clearly "the bike that RV made", and Kawasaki has a reputation for not being very generous when it comes to personal setup preferences for their riders. Tomac is also a really mental rider...and it shows in every interview he does, whether he says it or not. He doesn't look all that comfy on the bike, and is not nearly as smooth as he used to be. I don't think he's happy at all...and it's not all about his finishes so far.

But, he seems like a good guy...very quiet and humble enough. I hope he gets a win or two this year, to keep his attitude and confidence up. And, I hope too that after this, his final year (I think) on Team Kawasaki, he'll set his sights on having a longer career...and not just filling his bank account. I believe he'd look like his old self on a Honda...or maybe even a Suzuki (new bike coming in 2018?).
Huh. I just went and peeked at the lap times for last week's main at A1, and Eli had the second-fastest lap time in the main event...a second faster than Dungey's best lap, and only .3-ish off of Kenny's best lap.

I wouldn't be so quick to write him off.
mx836
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mx836 1/14/2017 6:30am
1/14/2017 6:30am
johnnypotato123 wrote:
He's considered a title contender because on any given weekend he could be the fastest guy by a large margin. The guy has incredible speed and...
He's considered a title contender because on any given weekend he could be the fastest guy by a large margin. The guy has incredible speed and we know he's fit so what doesn't make him a title contender? To me a title contender is someone who would not surprise me to see them win the championship and Tomac wouldn't be a surprise, most people would probably thought he'd have a 450 title by now. I will say though, San Diego will be big for Tomac IMO he has to win it to silence anyone saying he's out of it.
He won it in '15 and might just have something extra for the military appreciation night since his brother serves. I'm pulling for him, but he won't be top 3 on my fantasy team until he can finish a race strong.
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snackfedbear 1/14/2017 6:39am
1/14/2017 6:39am
Michael Scott wrote:
Take away one fateful day in Colorado and I don't think we're having this conversation
Midwest_Mafia wrote:
It could be that, it could be a mental hang up from the crash and his struggles the past year and a half, or it could...
It could be that, it could be a mental hang up from the crash and his struggles the past year and a half, or it could be that that bike and him really don't get along, no matter how much he's improved his set up.

I'd go with the latter, I don't think anyone has ever been as fast as he was on that honda before that crash. It was insane.

Were his motives for changing teams ever mentioned? Was it to be the main rider at a top level team, a money thing?

it doesn't make sense why he'd leave that program and bike as good as it was going...
I think it was said that he was already signed with Kawi when he was racing that last year of outdoors for Honda
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snackfedbear 1/14/2017 6:42am
1/14/2017 6:42am
TheOriginalPancakee wrote:
Do we not remember how fast he was at A1? He will get the arm pump thing figured out and bring the same speed he had...
Do we not remember how fast he was at A1? He will get the arm pump thing figured out and bring the same speed he had at A1 to the next rounds
He should talk to Dungey about getting one of those gay little arm vice things and some spray from him.
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RG1 1/14/2017 7:11am
1/14/2017 7:11am
mx836 wrote:
He won it in '15 and might just have something extra for the military appreciation night since his brother serves. I'm pulling for him, but he...
He won it in '15 and might just have something extra for the military appreciation night since his brother serves. I'm pulling for him, but he won't be top 3 on my fantasy team until he can finish a race strong.
Didn't Canard win it '15? Tomac won Phoenix I thought
mx836
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mx836 1/14/2017 7:52am
1/14/2017 7:52am
mx836 wrote:
He won it in '15 and might just have something extra for the military appreciation night since his brother serves. I'm pulling for him, but he...
He won it in '15 and might just have something extra for the military appreciation night since his brother serves. I'm pulling for him, but he won't be top 3 on my fantasy team until he can finish a race strong.
RG1 wrote:
Didn't Canard win it '15? Tomac won Phoenix I thought
You are correct. Phoenix was round two in '15, hence my misunderstanding.
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Samuel 1/14/2017 7:53am
1/14/2017 7:53am
Tomac is a beast. I hope to see him put all the pieces together. I think he will win multiple races this year.
oldslownewb 1/14/2017 8:23am
1/14/2017 8:23am
STLSharky wrote:
Funny how Supercross Science video shows how not to get lactic acid and how he's training in Colorado then he loses race with lactic acid
Funny how Supercross Science video shows how not to get lactic acid and how he's training in Colorado then he loses race with lactic acid
If you google "lactic acid myths" you get the script for that supercross "science" bit. The current "science" seems to dispute everything in that video. I'm not smart enough or in shape enough to know how John Tomac's misconceptions here would impact Eli's training but if he's wrong about the physiology that's not a good starting point.
mgifracing 1/14/2017 8:36am
1/14/2017 8:36am
We've had One race people. If he is still barely getting top 5's after Daytona, then I'd start the worrying.
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FolkLoar 1/14/2017 9:38am
1/14/2017 9:38am
Tomac is considered a title threat every year because he's one of the few riders out there to beat Roczen or Dungey straight up in awhile, and he's done it a few times. Also, he only seems lack one or two pieces of the puzzle every season. I think most of us assume that he will eventually put it all together, and why a lot of people have seen him as a PRESEASON title threat.

You never know how they are going to do till A1. Let's hope this week looks a little better for ET3.
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jonesaustin 1/14/2017 9:58am
1/14/2017 9:58am
I'm only shooting from the hip but something about him on green just doesn't equate imo. I felt that way when I first saw Stewart on a Yamaha. Call it instinct, call it delusion, I suppose it could be either, although I suspect a lot of us can mysteriously guage that kind of thing, even early on, when there's no evidence to support it.

Moreover, after that outdoors wreck, I didn't think he'd ever shake those cobwebs completely. I don't think he has.

That combination is what we're seeing imo.... but I believe he's going to shine again at some point. Like Webb, it's just mental. If either overcome that, they will start rocking this series a lot more than what Anaheim 1 showed us.

Let's hope that starts today.
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Katoomey 1/14/2017 10:05am
1/14/2017 10:05am
mx836 wrote:
Ever heard of arm pump? I'd love to see you ride a SX track with it.
Arm pump isn't an excuse. I'd love to see you tell your boss thats why you are so slow at work.

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mx836
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mx836 1/14/2017 10:17am
1/14/2017 10:17am
mx836 wrote:
Ever heard of arm pump? I'd love to see you ride a SX track with it.
Katoomey wrote:
Arm pump isn't an excuse. I'd love to see you tell your boss thats why you are so slow at work.
I didn't say it was an excuse. I assume you ride so you could probably imagine what it's like to ride a Supercross track with arm pump. It happened and there's nothing he could do about it after that.
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Katoomey 1/14/2017 11:23am
1/14/2017 11:23am
mx836 wrote:
I didn't say it was an excuse. I assume you ride so you could probably imagine what it's like to ride a Supercross track with arm...
I didn't say it was an excuse. I assume you ride so you could probably imagine what it's like to ride a Supercross track with arm pump. It happened and there's nothing he could do about it after that.
for sure... my point is, you either win or you don't. There isn't any grey area in that, no matter how you try to spin it.
early
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early 2/4/2017 7:17pm
2/4/2017 7:17pm
Maybe some of these geniuses might want to reconsider their opinions Cool
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MXR 2/4/2017 7:22pm
2/4/2017 7:22pm
davistld01 wrote:
I like Eli Tomac...but this year, I certainly don't see him as a title favorite at all. He's not on the same page as KR, RD...
I like Eli Tomac...but this year, I certainly don't see him as a title favorite at all. He's not on the same page as KR, RD or even Musquin. Skill level...maybe. But performance capability...given his current circumstances, no. Of course, this is my opinion only.

Eli has never come close to being on the same lap time that he was on the Geico Honda for the last half of his last season on the red bike. I'm not on a "blame the bike" kick or anything...but I truly believe that Eli and John got greedy and bit the Green bait because of the money carrot that was dangled in front of their noses. The bike is clearly "the bike that RV made", and Kawasaki has a reputation for not being very generous when it comes to personal setup preferences for their riders. Tomac is also a really mental rider...and it shows in every interview he does, whether he says it or not. He doesn't look all that comfy on the bike, and is not nearly as smooth as he used to be. I don't think he's happy at all...and it's not all about his finishes so far.

But, he seems like a good guy...very quiet and humble enough. I hope he gets a win or two this year, to keep his attitude and confidence up. And, I hope too that after this, his final year (I think) on Team Kawasaki, he'll set his sights on having a longer career...and not just filling his bank account. I believe he'd look like his old self on a Honda...or maybe even a Suzuki (new bike coming in 2018?).
^ BWAAAAHAHA^
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Gandorlf 2/4/2017 7:23pm
2/4/2017 7:23pm
early wrote:
Maybe some of these geniuses might want to reconsider their opinions Cool
So is this topic open for discussion now? xD

Been saying it for a few years now. Tomac is a beast but has seemed a bit low on confidence since his big Injury in 2015. But it's a long season as I'm told so he could mess it all up.
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delbrekko 2/4/2017 7:26pm
2/4/2017 7:26pm
This is what he does every year, has some good races, average races and sub par races, BUT will say these last 2 races he has look damn fast. Maybe he's found something bike and mentally to turn that corner and be there for all 17 rounds
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WFO! 2/4/2017 7:28pm
2/4/2017 7:28pm
Starcrossed wrote:
Yeah, he's going to be the champ allright. After hearing how dialed in he is for the last three months, how his fitness is on another...
Yeah, he's going to be the champ allright. After hearing how dialed in he is for the last three months, how his fitness is on another level, how he hasn't had to touch the bike AT ALL, he comes out and loses spots to guys who weren't even mentioned in the same sentence as him, pre-season. Well if he wants to be the champ he better go back and work on something because he's not even close to seeing a podium at this stage, never mind the fucking championship.
Another baby genius here. ^
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Gandorlf 2/4/2017 7:30pm
2/4/2017 7:30pm
delbrekko wrote:
This is what he does every year, has some good races, average races and sub par races, BUT will say these last 2 races he has...
This is what he does every year, has some good races, average races and sub par races, BUT will say these last 2 races he has look damn fast. Maybe he's found something bike and mentally to turn that corner and be there for all 17 rounds
He did make changes to the bike after A2 but didn't specify what they were. After Phoenix he said in the post-race conference that he's going to "leave her be" as evidently they were good changes!
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gabrielito 2/4/2017 7:31pm
2/4/2017 7:31pm
Eli is flying for sure but Dungey knows what he is doing and he does better than anyone else out there.
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delbrekko 2/4/2017 7:31pm
2/4/2017 7:31pm
delbrekko wrote:
This is what he does every year, has some good races, average races and sub par races, BUT will say these last 2 races he has...
This is what he does every year, has some good races, average races and sub par races, BUT will say these last 2 races he has look damn fast. Maybe he's found something bike and mentally to turn that corner and be there for all 17 rounds
Gandorlf wrote:
He did make changes to the bike after A2 but didn't specify what they were. After Phoenix he said in the post-race conference that he's going...
He did make changes to the bike after A2 but didn't specify what they were. After Phoenix he said in the post-race conference that he's going to "leave her be" as evidently they were good changes!
Ya know if you go back and look at his results since he's been in the 450 that is exactly what he has done, win a couple races and not much after to keep him in the title hunt. Not making it up just going off facts
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mx 219 2/4/2017 7:33pm
2/4/2017 7:33pm Edited Date/Time 2/4/2017 7:42pm
I think that Eli is still going to need some better starts before I get too excited about a championship fight. Eli is always a contender for a win, but thus far he has been lacking on a 450 because of his starts. 2 wins in a row is great and he's building confidence, but I wouldn't put too much stock into tonights win only because of the conditions, Dungey did what he needed to do for the big picture.

What happens if Tomac goes down doing the triple quad? Then Dungey has a 23 point lead instead of a 17 pt lead. Dungey did what he needed to, kept it on the box for the big picture.

I like both of them and don't really care either way which one wins. I would love to see a tight battle to the end between two great riders, hard workers, and guys that seem like genuinely nice, good guys.
early
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early 2/4/2017 7:34pm
2/4/2017 7:34pm
delbrekko wrote:
This is what he does every year, has some good races, average races and sub par races, BUT will say these last 2 races he has...
This is what he does every year, has some good races, average races and sub par races, BUT will say these last 2 races he has look damn fast. Maybe he's found something bike and mentally to turn that corner and be there for all 17 rounds
Maybe not the most consistent guy but he has been a championship contender just about his whole career. Indoors and out. Came close in 2 250 sx series an won 1. Finished 2nd in 2015 sx series, 2nd outdoors last year. Maybe he wasnt that close in points to the champion in both those, but second place is first contender.

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