hats off to all of the sand baggers

MTBrider92
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I have noticed lately that a lot of industry insiders have been putting pressure on the 'sandbaggers' in 2017 to grow a pair and move into 450s lately. and I think a lot of people agree!

I mean come on. Davalos, the king of sandbagging, whats it been 50 years in the lites class? and all he does is win one race, then crash out of two. Davlos, cunningham, bowers, alex martin, dan reardon now that he's back , josh hansen (when/if he races lites), zach osbourne, kyle chisholm and phil nicoletti (both of them back in the lites are you kidding me???), and anyone else i forgot to mention.

they are all just getting in the way of more promising young guns who still have a shot at winning races. heck, even christian craig is toying with the sandbagging category if you take into consideration his pro career prior to retiring.

forgive me for being so cynical but i mean come on grandpas, move up already. the lites class should be designated for 2 categories of riders: 1, the young kids who have only been racing for a couple years (5 at the maximum), or for privateers who are struggling to make mains.

when you take all of this into consideration, and then add the fact that freaking josh grant and kyle chisholm got rides before malcolm stewart and dean wilson, it all adds up to a season full of unfortunate circumstances.
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1/1/2017 2:29pm
The fact that davalos is still in the 250 class grinds my gears.
Myke
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1/1/2017 2:31pm
Oh no this topic again.

slipdog
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1/1/2017 2:34pm
There are just a few flaws in your rant....
PremixKid
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1/1/2017 2:39pm
The problem is that theres not enough rides in the 450 class

The Shop

MTBrider92
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1/1/2017 2:40pm
slipdog wrote:
There are just a few flaws in your rant....
and my flaws would be.....
haydos25
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1/1/2017 2:52pm
MTBrider92 wrote:
and my flaws would be.....
That they should move up onto what ride?

If they move up and privateer it then they will struggle to make mains. Refer to the 20-25 factory supported riders in the 450 class already. Once they struggle to make 450 mains by your logic they then qualify to return to the 250 class as per your argument.

If the young kids are fast enough they will take the ride. But they're not so bad luck get faster.
jj welks
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1/1/2017 2:54pm
slipdog wrote:
There are just a few flaws in your rant....
MTBrider92 wrote:
and my flaws would be.....
dumbest post of 2017
1/1/2017 2:55pm
There's no reason for Davalos to move up as long as they don't force him. It's a bit weird to use the term sandbagger when the riders being referred to don't even win championships.
1/1/2017 2:57pm
Is the 250 class a pro class? If so, we shouldn't force people to move up due to age. winning the lites class X times yes, move them up, otherwise let em be
MTBrider92
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1/1/2017 2:59pm
slipdog wrote:
There are just a few flaws in your rant....
MTBrider92 wrote:
and my flaws would be.....
jj welks wrote:
dumbest post of 2017
are you going to debate the post or just leave a moronic comment like you did?
jj welks
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1/1/2017 3:00pm Edited Date/Time 1/1/2017 3:02pm
this is a topic bound for the shit heap, congrats on being the first vitard of the year to go full retard. Who the hell are you to tell a guy he can't make a living
slipdog
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1/1/2017 3:01pm
slipdog wrote:
There are just a few flaws in your rant....
MTBrider92 wrote:
and my flaws would be.....
"they are all just getting in the way of more promising young guns who still have a shot at winning races."

If they were getting in the way they wouldn't have the rides in that class, they'd be passed over for those "young guns" that have a shot at winning. They are eligible and the teams that hire them find them more desirable than the others.

"the lites class should be designated for 2 categories of riders: 1, the young kids who have only been racing for a couple years (5 at the maximum), or for privateers who are struggling to make mains."

The rules are what they are. I'd like to see the 250t's race in that class, but that's not what the rules are or ever have been.
downard254
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1/1/2017 3:02pm
There's no reason for Davalos to move up as long as they don't force him. It's a bit weird to use the term sandbagger when the...
There's no reason for Davalos to move up as long as they don't force him. It's a bit weird to use the term sandbagger when the riders being referred to don't even win championships.
This!
MTBrider92
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1/1/2017 3:05pm
slipdog wrote:
There are just a few flaws in your rant....
MTBrider92 wrote:
and my flaws would be.....
slipdog wrote:
[i]"they are all just getting in the way of more promising young guns who still have a shot at winning races."[/i] If they were getting in...
"they are all just getting in the way of more promising young guns who still have a shot at winning races."

If they were getting in the way they wouldn't have the rides in that class, they'd be passed over for those "young guns" that have a shot at winning. They are eligible and the teams that hire them find them more desirable than the others.

"the lites class should be designated for 2 categories of riders: 1, the young kids who have only been racing for a couple years (5 at the maximum), or for privateers who are struggling to make mains."

The rules are what they are. I'd like to see the 250t's race in that class, but that's not what the rules are or ever have been.
all valid points.

however, they have all shown flashes of promise and brilliance over the last decade, yet they fall short. most, if not all, of the racers i mentioned all had potential in the past, but have time and time again proven that they do not have what it takes to be a champ. i think that teams pick them up because they know they will at least be somewhat competitive in the season. and yes the rules are what they are, but like we have seen this year with the race format, rules can change and hopefully they will change.
TeamGreen
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1/1/2017 3:08pm
If someone offers you a really nice contract on a factory team to ride A 250...?

You'd say, "No, Thanks!" ???
MTBrider92
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1/1/2017 3:13pm
This is a good point, but the thing that irks me about that part of the issue is the principle of the matter.

A rider that says yes to a lot money in the tiddler class and no to moving up to 450s to become relevant is a rider that is just contributing to a problem.
kkawboy14
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1/1/2017 3:15pm
slipdog wrote:
There are just a few flaws in your rant....
Just a few? Smile
kkawboy14
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1/1/2017 3:16pm
MTBrider92 wrote:
This is a good point, but the thing that irks me about that part of the issue is the principle of the matter. A rider that...
This is a good point, but the thing that irks me about that part of the issue is the principle of the matter.

A rider that says yes to a lot money in the tiddler class and no to moving up to 450s to become relevant is a rider that is just contributing to a problem.
I bet his woman is happy he's getting paid in the 250 class.
MTBrider92
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1/1/2017 3:17pm
jj welks wrote:
this is a topic bound for the shit heap, congrats on being the first vitard of the year to go full retard. Who the hell are...
this is a topic bound for the shit heap, congrats on being the first vitard of the year to go full retard. Who the hell are you to tell a guy he can't make a living
haha please dont make irrelevant moronic comments on this post, kiddo. reply only if you are going to say something halfway intelligent or worthy.
kkawboy14
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1/1/2017 3:17pm
TeamGreen wrote:
If someone offers you a really nice contract on a factory team to ride A 250...?

You'd say, "No, Thanks!" ???
No doubt they would.......then would try for unemployment compensation and food stamps!
APLMAN99
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Fantasy
1/1/2017 3:18pm
MTBrider92 wrote:
This is a good point, but the thing that irks me about that part of the issue is the principle of the matter. A rider that...
This is a good point, but the thing that irks me about that part of the issue is the principle of the matter.

A rider that says yes to a lot money in the tiddler class and no to moving up to 450s to become relevant is a rider that is just contributing to a problem.
You're inventing the problem that doesn't exist.

If the teams feel that a younger rider has more potential, they'll snatch them up.

You also don't appear to understand the difference between sandbagging and cherry picking.........
colorado2day
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1/1/2017 3:21pm
So how does Jmart do on his new Honda this year ?

If he doesnt win this year on 250s does he still move up to a 450 next year like he said he wanted to ? Or if he does win does he hang out and ride with the #1 plate next year ?
1/1/2017 3:24pm
Davalos would move up tomorrow if they let him.
Starcrossed
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1/1/2017 3:42pm
slipdog wrote:
There are just a few flaws in your rant....
MTBrider92 wrote:
and my flaws would be.....
jj welks wrote:
dumbest post of 2017
I guess you haven't seen the work of the newest resident expert. This thread is fairly comprehensible compared to some of the gems posted recently. ML's job should be safe for the immediate future, in spite of his well known revulsion for two strokes. Grinning
colintrax
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1/1/2017 3:52pm
Hold on, so it's possible to sandbag a pro class?
Does this mean I can go from 250B to 450C? What about 450D?
kzizok
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1/1/2017 3:53pm
MTBrider92 wrote:
and my flaws would be.....
jj welks wrote:
dumbest post of 2017
I guess you haven't seen the work of the newest resident expert. This thread is fairly comprehensible compared to some of the gems posted recently. ML's...
I guess you haven't seen the work of the newest resident expert. This thread is fairly comprehensible compared to some of the gems posted recently. ML's job should be safe for the immediate future, in spite of his well known revulsion for two strokes. Grinning
X2.
Aaryn234
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1/1/2017 3:56pm Edited Date/Time 1/1/2017 4:37pm
OK Genius, tell me on what team Davalos, Cunningham, Bowers, Alex martin, Dan Reardon , Josh Hansen Zach Osbourne, Kyle chisholm and Phil Nicoletti are riding if they move up to the 450 class this year???

Are you telling me you would leave your current job because someone told you that you have been in it too long and are now over qualified and should move on, even though there is no place for you to go.

Every single one of those listed riders would be in the same situation as Wilson, Weimer and Stewart if they were to move up and effectivley we would not see half of that talent racing apart from in heats and semis.

Like in the rest of the working world, new talent will get a chance by either being so good they can not be over looked OR a company (A Team) chooses to invest in their future.

The good kids already have the best chance to make it, they are picked up young and guided with support through the amateur ranks and if they show enough they have a ride in the 250 class anyway and generally on a top teir team, that is not going to change.

I don't see a problem, the only problem at the moment is a good one, there is so much good talent out there the fields are stacked, in theory the 450 class is at a point where there will be no privateers in the main event at the opening rounds, well apart from Deno and Malcolm! How is that a bad thing.

Lappers of old will not be seen at the opening rounds, if the leaders lap up into the top ten, they are lapping factory riders, really fucking fast factory riders!

Again go check out the RacerX preview shows, in the first four shows they list of 15 riders who if you looked at any of them individually I would say they lay somewhere between a certainty or at worst a good chance to make the podium during the season, at very worst they will land one top five finish.

In reality some of those guys will also have to be lappers if the leader starts lapping inside the top 15 at round one!

Then the last show lists another five riders that are probably in the same boat! The final show has Bogle, Malcom Stewart, Brayton, Wilson, Tickle and also JS7.

20 (21 if you include James). All should make the main event, leaving 1-2 spots open for the best Supercross riders in the WORLD.

Now add those nine guys you listed at the top to that list, where would they fit in? All great riders but who is hiring them for a paid 450 ride when their odds of making a main against the current 450 line up is 50/50 at best and making the top ten would be pretty slim early in the season.

SX is a sport where only the top few riders get coverage, its not like a team sport where you still have 10,000 to 100,000 of thousands of fans cheering for a team that is not getting results in a particular season. There is always hope for many years to come in team sports, in SX riders have a very limited career.

It is an individual sport in terms of what sponsors see, it will always be a sport where the elite get the majority of the money and the ONLY way for the rest of the field, especially those guys at the back end of the main events or who make up the evening show in the top 40 to make a decent living is if the promoter come through and pay them more to help put on the show.

Relax, sit back and enjoy some great racing as of next weekend.

Moving the guys listed out of the 250 class is not going to make the 450 class any better, well not until injuries start to hit.

And having those guys you listed in the 250 class actually helps lift the level in those classes so the new guys coming through know from the start just how tough it is going to be to make it out the 250 class.

For those that can't make it into the 250 East or West there is always arenacross.

TeamGreen
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1/1/2017 4:26pm
I really dig the amount of thought that's gone into these arguments; but, we're over thinking it.

Here's how a team owner/manager looks at things: "Who's the fastest available rider that we can get?"
Obviously the riders they look at have to meet the 250 class reqmts and can't have pointed out already.

They're looking for a championship.

Period.
agn5009
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1/1/2017 4:40pm
slipdog wrote:
There are just a few flaws in your rant....
MTBrider92 wrote:
and my flaws would be.....
Your flaws are that this is real life and these guys are trying to make real life money. If they can get a good ride in the 250 class and make good money, why would they move up? Most of those guys you listed probably wouldn't sniff the top 10 most of the time which in return wouldn't net them much money. Whether you like it or not, this is a business for everyone involved. Everyone has to make a living to provide for themselves and their family. Why knock guys for doing that?
JW381
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1/1/2017 4:55pm Edited Date/Time 1/1/2017 5:01pm
I think the bikes have come far enough that we've surpassed this "feeder" class. They could make one, but it would require far different rules. But, as it is, they are both professional, premiere classes so if certain guys feel better on a 250, then so be it. 450s usually have less exciting racing anyway.

Post a reply to: hats off to all of the sand baggers

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