250F's pulling 50+hp...can we get 250 2 strokes legal in the nationals now? Mxsports?

slowgti
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slowgti 4/25/2016 10:55am
4/25/2016 10:55am
Do you want Honda to take their ball and go home?
cwtoyota
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cwtoyota 4/25/2016 11:46am
4/25/2016 11:46am
slowgti wrote:
Do you want Honda to take their ball and go home?
Don't you mean take their generator and pressure washer and go home?

Now that KTM are killing it, we could stand to lose Honda, right?
slowgti
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slowgti 4/25/2016 11:58am
4/25/2016 11:58am
cwtoyota wrote:
Don't you mean take their generator and pressure washer and go home?

Now that KTM are killing it, we could stand to lose Honda, right?
What's a couple million a year invested in the sport?

They don't race generators yet, maybe they could spend their racing budget there?
Spartacus
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Spartacus 4/25/2016 12:45pm
4/25/2016 12:45pm
Wait, these are races?

My bad, I thought is was just a long commercial for what MX bikes they want us to buy.

Who knew.......

The Shop

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MotoX85
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MotoX85 4/25/2016 12:51pm
4/25/2016 12:51pm
You can also add that the EPA has dropped their war against 2 strokes and are actually saying now that 4 strokes cause more emissions. Closer to 55 HP by the way.
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kiwifan 4/25/2016 12:56pm
4/25/2016 12:56pm
slowgti wrote:
What's a couple million a year invested in the sport?

They don't race generators yet, maybe they could spend their racing budget there?
I hope Honda do leave the sport, it would satisfy so many people here ... they should actually stop producing competition off-road motorbikes all together....would you be all happy then?

aFACEdismembered
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aFACEdismembered 4/25/2016 1:16pm
4/25/2016 1:16pm Edited Date/Time 4/25/2016 1:16pm
resetjet wrote:
However, that aside anyone would be nuts running a 2t in supercross. Moto x hell yes.
jeffro503 wrote:
2 stroke 250 against 250F's would be at a disadvantage? You think so?
The 2 bikes also have the same minimum weight limit in SX.
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mxb2 4/25/2016 1:28pm
4/25/2016 1:28pm
slowgti wrote:
What's a couple million a year invested in the sport?

They don't race generators yet, maybe they could spend their racing budget there?
kiwifan wrote:
I hope Honda do leave the sport, it would satisfy so many people here ... they should actually stop producing competition off-road motorbikes all together....would you...
I hope Honda do leave the sport, it would satisfy so many people here ... they should actually stop producing competition off-road motorbikes all together....would you be all happy then?

Lol, good one. Funny all the honda haters still own them and buy their products.
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Dtat720 4/25/2016 1:31pm
4/25/2016 1:31pm
Fearo wrote:
This may be slightly off topic but I'm always surprised at how many people honestly think a 250F would hold a candle against a 250 2-stroke...
This may be slightly off topic but I'm always surprised at how many people honestly think a 250F would hold a candle against a 250 2-stroke in the hands of a pro with 2-stroke experience.

Unless they were riding at Carlsbad at 3PM, most of the top pro's with 2-stroke experience would flat out roast the most modded 250F on a stock KTM SX 250.

Gared Steinke qualified for every race on a stock 125 for christs sake.
Was it him or Renner that was busted on the big bore? I think it was Renner. One of them was
Track and Trail 4/25/2016 1:44pm
4/25/2016 1:44pm
Give me a factory ride Honda. All will be forgiven.
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Kx125rider 4/25/2016 1:50pm
4/25/2016 1:50pm
40 wrote:
How about if all of us flat out refused to renew our AMA cards until they allowed the 250 two stroke back in? When your AMA...
How about if all of us flat out refused to renew our AMA cards until they allowed the 250 two stroke back in? When your AMA card needs renewal, simply send a snotty note back instead of any money explaining that you refuse to subsidize an organization that acts against your interests. After a few thousand of us do this, even the AMA will get the message, spoken in the universal language- money.
tempura wrote:
You're right. We can complain on here or anywhere about the corruption and bias in this sport. The simple fact is, if the money keeps rolling...
You're right. We can complain on here or anywhere about the corruption and bias in this sport. The simple fact is, if the money keeps rolling in for them, they don't give a shit. When the money stops, they listen. It's up to the collective masses, ultimately they have the power, it's just a matter of not handing your money over until things change.
THIS, the AMA would make changes real quick if we could make this happen
40
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40 4/25/2016 1:52pm
4/25/2016 1:52pm Edited Date/Time 4/25/2016 1:54pm
Old-Man wrote:
And here you go...Make a stand gents!

As if it will do any goodWhistling Laughing
OK, sit quietly, bow your head like a passive sheep and keep sending the AMA your money. The AMA is counting on it.
Kx125rider
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Kx125rider 4/25/2016 1:54pm
4/25/2016 1:54pm Edited Date/Time 4/25/2016 1:56pm
Today its allow two strokes. I dont want to see it, but one day it'll be "allow combustion engines"
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Plugga 4/25/2016 1:54pm
4/25/2016 1:54pm
FlaNard wrote:
These jackasses. Which is what caused me to go from a lifelong Honda rider to one who now rides a Suzuki and will never buy another...
These jackasses. Which is what caused me to go from a lifelong Honda rider to one who now rides a Suzuki and will never buy another Honda. Screw Honda. Oh and honestly, its beyond silly at this point that you cant race a two stroke against 250f's. Everyone knows it, but the same song and dance from the same people will continue, We lost this one. I gave up on sane decisions being made by those in charge years ago. It will be all four stroke until we all go electric.

GrapeApe wrote:
Hell yeah, support those who support 2 strokes. Like Suzuki.
colintrax wrote:
Hell yeah. My 2016 RM125 is awesome!
No, he has decided not to support a manufacturer who has publicly stated they will never make another 2 stroke again.

Suzuki & Kawasaki will jump straight back into bed again if the demand changes.

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Spiralham432 4/25/2016 1:58pm
4/25/2016 1:58pm
Fearo wrote:
This may be slightly off topic but I'm always surprised at how many people honestly think a 250F would hold a candle against a 250 2-stroke...
This may be slightly off topic but I'm always surprised at how many people honestly think a 250F would hold a candle against a 250 2-stroke in the hands of a pro with 2-stroke experience.

Unless they were riding at Carlsbad at 3PM, most of the top pro's with 2-stroke experience would flat out roast the most modded 250F on a stock KTM SX 250.

Gared Steinke qualified for every race on a stock 125 for christs sake.
Dtat720 wrote:
Was it him or Renner that was busted on the big bore? I think it was Renner. One of them was
It was Renner, I don't think he got busted but he admitted it was a 144 after he failed to qualify. Daytona 2012 I believe
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colintrax 4/25/2016 1:59pm
4/25/2016 1:59pm
Dtat720 wrote:
Was it him or Renner that was busted on the big bore? I think it was Renner. One of them was
Musta been Renner, Steinke rode a stock KTM and I don't remember him getting in trouble with a big bore when he was riding the Yamaha.
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mxb2 4/25/2016 2:01pm
4/25/2016 2:01pm
Fearo wrote:
This may be slightly off topic but I'm always surprised at how many people honestly think a 250F would hold a candle against a 250 2-stroke...
This may be slightly off topic but I'm always surprised at how many people honestly think a 250F would hold a candle against a 250 2-stroke in the hands of a pro with 2-stroke experience.

Unless they were riding at Carlsbad at 3PM, most of the top pro's with 2-stroke experience would flat out roast the most modded 250F on a stock KTM SX 250.

Gared Steinke qualified for every race on a stock 125 for christs sake.
Dtat720 wrote:
Was it him or Renner that was busted on the big bore? I think it was Renner. One of them was
Spiralham432 wrote:
It was Renner, I don't think he got busted but he admitted it was a 144 after he failed to qualify. Daytona 2012 I believe
X2
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kiwifan 4/25/2016 2:09pm
4/25/2016 2:09pm
slowgti wrote:
What's a couple million a year invested in the sport?

They don't race generators yet, maybe they could spend their racing budget there?
kiwifan wrote:
I hope Honda do leave the sport, it would satisfy so many people here ... they should actually stop producing competition off-road motorbikes all together....would you...
I hope Honda do leave the sport, it would satisfy so many people here ... they should actually stop producing competition off-road motorbikes all together....would you be all happy then?

mxb2 wrote:
Lol, good one. Funny all the honda haters still own them and buy their products.
Yes, funny thing is I love 2 strokes, am I faster on one, no I am not...(except in VMX) Are they more fun? yeah maybe. Are they cheaper to race? No, I would spend as much money suspension, motor mods, etc as I do on 4 strokes ...

Do I hate on those that dont make 2 strokes? No...why? whats the point, hating them isnt going to change anything at all!!!!

I currently race Kawasakis, they only produce a 80cc 2 stroke so should to stop racing my 450...no fucking way!!! Whether they produce a 2 stroke or not of bigger displacement has no bearing on what I ride.

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kiwifan
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kiwifan 4/25/2016 2:14pm
4/25/2016 2:14pm
Plugga wrote:
No, he has decided not to support a manufacturer who has publicly stated they will never make another 2 stroke again. Suzuki & Kawasaki will jump...
No, he has decided not to support a manufacturer who has publicly stated they will never make another 2 stroke again.

Suzuki & Kawasaki will jump straight back into bed again if the demand changes.

All manufactures would change their minds IF the demand asks for it...including Honda, do you seriously think that they would not despite what they have said publicly? You are a fool if you think otherwise.

If Suzuki and Kawasaki made a 125 or 250 2 stroke would their sales go off the roof? Nope, you are a fool to think otherwise ...the 2 stroke market is not a big market...its a very finite one. More likely sales of those bikes would come off KTM or perhaps even Yamaha 2 stroke riders rather than 4 stroke riders.

imho
mxb2
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mxb2 4/25/2016 2:26pm
4/25/2016 2:26pm
kiwifan wrote:
I hope Honda do leave the sport, it would satisfy so many people here ... they should actually stop producing competition off-road motorbikes all together....would you...
I hope Honda do leave the sport, it would satisfy so many people here ... they should actually stop producing competition off-road motorbikes all together....would you be all happy then?

mxb2 wrote:
Lol, good one. Funny all the honda haters still own them and buy their products.
kiwifan wrote:
Yes, funny thing is I love 2 strokes, am I faster on one, no I am not...(except in VMX) Are they more fun? yeah maybe. Are...
Yes, funny thing is I love 2 strokes, am I faster on one, no I am not...(except in VMX) Are they more fun? yeah maybe. Are they cheaper to race? No, I would spend as much money suspension, motor mods, etc as I do on 4 strokes ...

Do I hate on those that dont make 2 strokes? No...why? whats the point, hating them isnt going to change anything at all!!!!

I currently race Kawasakis, they only produce a 80cc 2 stroke so should to stop racing my 450...no fucking way!!! Whether they produce a 2 stroke or not of bigger displacement has no bearing on what I ride.
Well said, i love both types,i buy what i want. Like you said if the demand was there,other factories would follow. Instead people just buy used smokers with exception of a few on here. Maybe the honda haters should boycott yamaha also since they started the 4 stroke craze.
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Plugga 4/25/2016 2:27pm
4/25/2016 2:27pm
Plugga wrote:
No, he has decided not to support a manufacturer who has publicly stated they will never make another 2 stroke again. Suzuki & Kawasaki will jump...
No, he has decided not to support a manufacturer who has publicly stated they will never make another 2 stroke again.

Suzuki & Kawasaki will jump straight back into bed again if the demand changes.

kiwifan wrote:
All manufactures would change their minds IF the demand asks for it...including Honda, do you seriously think that they would not despite what they have said...
All manufactures would change their minds IF the demand asks for it...including Honda, do you seriously think that they would not despite what they have said publicly? You are a fool if you think otherwise.

If Suzuki and Kawasaki made a 125 or 250 2 stroke would their sales go off the roof? Nope, you are a fool to think otherwise ...the 2 stroke market is not a big market...its a very finite one. More likely sales of those bikes would come off KTM or perhaps even Yamaha 2 stroke riders rather than 4 stroke riders.

imho
Touchy subject huh?

It's OK, just grab a cup of tea, jump in bed with your hot water bottle and a romantic novel.
aFACEdismembered
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aFACEdismembered 4/25/2016 2:28pm
4/25/2016 2:28pm
Fearo wrote:
This may be slightly off topic but I'm always surprised at how many people honestly think a 250F would hold a candle against a 250 2-stroke...
This may be slightly off topic but I'm always surprised at how many people honestly think a 250F would hold a candle against a 250 2-stroke in the hands of a pro with 2-stroke experience.

Unless they were riding at Carlsbad at 3PM, most of the top pro's with 2-stroke experience would flat out roast the most modded 250F on a stock KTM SX 250.

Gared Steinke qualified for every race on a stock 125 for christs sake.
Dtat720 wrote:
Was it him or Renner that was busted on the big bore? I think it was Renner. One of them was
Renner at Daytona
cwtoyota
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cwtoyota 4/25/2016 2:53pm
4/25/2016 2:53pm
Fearo wrote:
This may be slightly off topic but I'm always surprised at how many people honestly think a 250F would hold a candle against a 250 2-stroke...
This may be slightly off topic but I'm always surprised at how many people honestly think a 250F would hold a candle against a 250 2-stroke in the hands of a pro with 2-stroke experience.

Unless they were riding at Carlsbad at 3PM, most of the top pro's with 2-stroke experience would flat out roast the most modded 250F on a stock KTM SX 250.

Gared Steinke qualified for every race on a stock 125 for christs sake.
Dtat720 wrote:
Was it him or Renner that was busted on the big bore? I think it was Renner. One of them was
aFACEdismembered wrote:
Renner at Daytona
That's the funny bit; We're all bickering back and forth about 250 vs 250 while they don't even allow the 144cc or 150cc two strokes in the 250cc class.

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jeffro503 4/25/2016 4:02pm
4/25/2016 4:02pm Edited Date/Time 4/25/2016 4:07pm
Guys....think on this for a second please.

The 4 strokes will still be winning at the pro level. All the factory and satellite teams that are backed by an OEM , will most definitely be running what ever that factory wants them to run. Which is 4 strokes.

The fastest guys out there right now....are on one of these teams.

Pushing to make 250 2 strokes legal help the privateers with cost and being able to build a more competitive motor against the factory and satellite teams.
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jeffro503 4/25/2016 4:06pm
4/25/2016 4:06pm
And like i was saying....we here in the USA are falling behind in this. Canada gets it ( kind of )....and the fastest riders will still be on 4 strokes.

DC?

Side note: wouldn't it be cool for KTM , Yamaha , TM ect....to show case their 250 2 strokes?
Cygnus
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Cygnus 4/25/2016 4:15pm
4/25/2016 4:15pm
Well as soon as someone figured a way to use it to his advantage in Canada they went and changed the rule again. So stupid. Just run a 250 class and an open class.
kiwifan
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kiwifan 4/25/2016 4:19pm
4/25/2016 4:19pm
Plugga wrote:
Touchy subject huh?

It's OK, just grab a cup of tea, jump in bed with your hot water bottle and a romantic novel.
Seems to be yeah.

Thanks for the advice, I will do as you suggest plus go lift some weights :-)
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JW381 4/25/2016 4:20pm
4/25/2016 4:20pm
resetjet wrote:
Simple honda, kawasaki and suzuki will cry.
Bearuno wrote:
DC & Co, Luongo / Youthstream , and so many others of the sports controllers are under the thumb of manufacturers. DC has the perfect example...
DC & Co, Luongo / Youthstream , and so many others of the sports controllers are under the thumb of manufacturers.

DC has the perfect example of the sky not falling with his XC2 class in GNCC.

No Handicapping with capacities - equivalency only. There's an enormous amount to yet come from 4ts - look to the Moto 3 category - 58HP (is the current number floating around) for fully kitted Moto3 bikes with strict controls / costs, and only 13,500 maximum RPM allowed.

Each engine type has it's advantages and disadvantages against each other - let them go at it with No BS handicapping rules.

The sport would be far better for it
I agree with this. Regulating the race machines by motor type is weird. Regulate the modifications and performance numbers, let the teams build the best bikes for the given application. I agree that the sport would be so much better off.
scott_nz
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scott_nz 4/25/2016 4:22pm
4/25/2016 4:22pm
the fact is that all 6 manufactuers sell more four stroke MX bikes than two strokes, all the manufactures seem to be happy with the way things are, 250F;s only in MX2 and 250 MX,

the gates are full *(well in the states anyway) the racing is good, and i dont think it would be any better with 2 strokes out there,
JM485
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JM485 4/25/2016 4:27pm
4/25/2016 4:27pm
jeffro503 wrote:
And like i was saying....we here in the USA are falling behind in this. Canada gets it ( kind of )....and the fastest riders will still...
And like i was saying....we here in the USA are falling behind in this. Canada gets it ( kind of )....and the fastest riders will still be on 4 strokes.

DC?

Side note: wouldn't it be cool for KTM , Yamaha , TM ect....to show case their 250 2 strokes?
I'm with you 100% Jeff, I would love to see TMs, Betas, etc out there mixing it up. The homologation rule is stupid, more factories means more rides available, even if they probably won't be on the same level as the big 5(6). I would bet a 10-20 place guy would be more than happy to hop on a TM and get a modest pay check, rather than pay out of pocket to race.

Post a reply to: 250F's pulling 50+hp...can we get 250 2 strokes legal in the nationals now? Mxsports?