Upgrade to enjoy this feature!
Vital MX fantasy is free to play, but Premium users receive great benefits. Premium benefits include:
- View and download rider stats
- Pick trends
- Create a private league
- And more!
Only $10 for all 2026 SX, MX, and SMX series.
them or the quality will go down on the item... They're sneaky... Something that goes up 300 ft. with a loud bang
2 years later will only go up 50 ft. & be a fire starter...
They could make some great bikes but...
I have not been participating in these 2 vs 4 discussions ever since I started seeing that the 2 strokes are coming back and feeling safe knowing they will be around for some time to come. BUT, I am going to throw back in what I have heard on here for the last few years...
125's are a missing step in the classes. Going from an 80 to a 250F full size, full weight, full speed bike is criminal and most agree.
The perfect transition from an 80 was to the 125 then 250 class. It wasn't broken. There is a reason the 500 class went away and the 450 is just that again only with an even heavier machine than the 500's were in the day. Granted the 450's have less torque and therefore slightly easier to control. We went from 125/250 backwards to 250/open again all in the name of $$ while leaving the 125 class, it's fans and the safety of the kids who should have been racing them out to dry. This move abandoned one of the most exciting classes to race in and watch. Pushing kids from 80's straight onto 250 full size bikes in order to go pro should have been stopped. Quite frankly considering the current state of this country's legal system, I am surprised lawyers and lawsuits or worse yet, the government, haven't stopped it before now.
Anyone who is paid to ride a 450 4 stroke would be obligated to say 250 2 strokes are not as fast. I would do the same if I was invested in keeping my job getting paid a ton to do what I love - racing bikes. If 250 2T's are not as fast as 450's then why are they not allowed in the "250" class when the 250F's are close to and sometimes faster than the open class 450's? You can't have it both ways... unless there is an agenda involved.
I have been to many tracks in the three state area here in the Midwest and counted all bikes each race or practice day since 2005. In 05 it was 5% 2 strokes. It steadily rose to a very consistent 35% racing and 40% at practice days this year in MX and offroad is higher.
I have been in the battery, electronics and some motorcycle manufacturing and importing business for 23 years. As H&M said, the Chinese can build a great and reliable product IF you design it yourself and push them to build it correctly with clear specs under contract to get it right with penalties for not. A broker in the factory at each step is a must. I had to learn this the hard way even after being promised in person over and over by factories everything would be OK. Yes, they will try to change things on you if you are not on top of it.
The Shop
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
For those of you who like two strokes but don't want to give up anything on the start, 500cc should do ya..............
To start off, KTM 125s and 150s do fly off the shelves. Sold out every year. Yamha can afford to continue to sell a 10 year old dinosaur and looking at Mini O's I'd say they are doing fairly well with them.
I wonder how many 2006 yamaha YZ250Fs would be sold if yamaha still made them?
The biggest downfall of new 2-stroke sales is their incredible durability/reliability. You can literally ride them until the wheels fall off, rebuild them and it still wouldn't have cost as much as a 4-stroke exhaust.
The reason why there's no 20 page threads on them? 2-strokes have for the most part become "racers only' bikes. Sure, there's a few weekend warriors that buy them brand new, but for the most part they are for a bought by a different kind of person than the one that spends 10K on a 4-stroke and goes to a forum to talk about it (no disrespect).
Four strokes are not $10k, I don't care how much you two stroke nuts try and claim that.
i bought a 16 yz250
lets hear from all you chest beaters that did the rite thing
China supports a broad range of technologies, from fireworks to advanced telecommunications equipment, with an equally wide array of quality controls. If there's a market, and they are allowed entry, they will pursue it. Again, it might pay dividends to speak with Chinese manufacturers and understand their perspective.
But MX bikes a such a small niche market, and I really don't know if they would sell more or the same number of bikes overall if there was a two stroke option, and whether making a new capital investment in light of that to run another production line for the same number of sales (not to mention refresh R&D ~ I think a cheap entry level bike its out the window if you're talking DI or other advances). I don't think a lot of other people here do, either.
The two stroke emissions thing is real, and two stroke bikes are a very small segment of two stroke use that is under pressure (as much over noise as anything; I think the emissions issue is more a argument piece for the neighborhood battles. Here's an example (I generally like Fallows, but this is elitist whining IMO): http://www.theatlantic.com/notes/all/2015/11/chronicles-of-civic-engagement/413842/#note-414148
But don't lose sight of the forest for the trees: IMO easy access to riding areas for people to get introduced without a lot of head aches is a far bigger issue for the survival of dirt biking than the cost of racing and lack of entry level race bikes (there's plenty of entry level dirt bikes for general dirt bike riding, and isn't an "entry level" race bike a bit of a misnomer?) Not saying it's not a problem, just that bikes will get real, real cheap when there's no place to ride.
'Durability' is a broad term. To me, something as small and fragile as a motocross engine is 'durable' when you are able to 'pound the shit out of them' for a decade with minimal maintenance. Do you want to have a guess how many 2006 YZ125s are running around your local tracks versus 2006 YZ250fs?
Pit Row
And the labor costs more than the rebuild on a 4 stroke.
Four strokes are like newer cars and trucks. Not meant to be worked on by normal people anymore.
Hell some newer cars you cannot even check the trans oil. The reason for this is people putting the wrong shit down the dipstick tube and ruining CVT's.
So they made it so you can't.......Well you could, but the idea is to force the normal person to take it to the dealer.
A normal gearhead would just do what the dealer does and be OK, but there are far too many people who never even check their engine oil until the motor is knocking.
Ever looked at a Mercedes............you cant just swap in a new battery when it's dead.
AND there are 2 batteries.............one behind the panel you can't see to open all the shit that doesnt even take a key anymore.
And they have to be coded to the car...........otherwise it will throw all kinds of codes.
Sure, you can buy the batteries, get the correct ones and install, but most people have no fuckin idea you can't just put in any new battery like the old days.
Thats the way 4 strokes are going. They make more money on service and repairs than the unit itself.
Loncin Brand
Popular models include the Jedi, Spitzer, and Rover. They are also the OEM manufacturer of several BMW engines. They are available with both 2 stroke and 4 stroke engines . They are also known for being extremely reliable and fuel-efficient.
Lifan Brand
They are the second largest producer of motorcycles in China. Traditionally, these motorcycles are best for riding in the city or for short commutes. They are not as good for cruising long distances.
Zongshen Brand
These are made in partnership with Harley Davidson and Piaggio, which means that many of the important engine specifications are compatible with these manufacturers. That makes it a little easier to get the right replacement parts.
QianJiang Brand
This company is actually the second largest motorcycle manufacturer in all of Asia. Their motto is European design with Japanese quality and Chinese cost. They build motorcycles, scooters and mopeds.
Luojia Highland Brand
These motorcycles have a heavy influence from Swedish engineering. They are known for their advancements in fuel injection, multi-valve technology, water-cooled engine systems, and for their lightweight design.
Jincheng Brand
This is a joint venture company that has steadily developed the motorcycle industry in China. In many respects, they are considered the backbone of the Chinese motorcycle industry.
Dayun Brand
This company makes both motorcycles and motorcycle engines. There are actually several worldwide manufacturers that use Dayun engines for their motorcycles.
Jianshe Yamaha Brand
This is another joint venture company. They, of course, have a partnership with the Japanese manufacturer Yamaha. The advantage with these motorcycles is that the aftermarket parts are easier to find, thanks to the distribution network of Yamaha.
Jialing Brand
This is a state-owned company. The advantage for Chinese citizens is that these motorcycles are less expensive and easier to purchase than some of the other brands. It is a little more difficult to get parts for these bikes in the United States.
Haojue Brand
This company manufactures their motorcycles in partnership with the Japanese company Suzuki. They are widely known for their quality and advancements in technology. They are also relatively easy to purchase in China, as well as throughout the world.
Maybe if a 125 class were to ever happen, said unnamed manufacturer could always race their 150cc 4 stroke instead?
The Vet/Senior aged riders, 25-49 are the ones spending the bulk of the money on bikes and the aftermarket.
They have the magical disposable income and those that ride and race spend the money.
Go watch the vet racers, what they are on and using. There is your market.
Saying the kiddos don't follow and idolize the pros would be ignoring the other part of the equation but i don't think is as nearly as big as the vet market.
I would love to see a return of a 125 class though. Be better for the kids moving up and be another great race to watch at the nationals.
Post a reply to: Holy Smokes! Who wrote this caption?