250 vs 250...... Dear DC

DrSweden
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DrSweden 10/12/2013 11:18am
10/12/2013 11:18am
I think we have come to a dead end, DC who obviously agree that smokers would be dandy, but he doesn't want to take the risk at this point. We cant keep arguing for valid points any further. The only option offered is to starve Honda out of racing or to force them building smokers is by buying KTMs. Odd solution but I guess is the only solution in this gridlock.
lostboy819 10/12/2013 11:18am
10/12/2013 11:18am
DC wrote:
Newman wrote, "Keep in mind that the people who wrote the rules were corrupt and some ended up in prison for stealing from their members. They...
Newman wrote, "Keep in mind that the people who wrote the rules were corrupt and some ended up in prison for stealing from their members. They were on the take from the OEMS and anyone who would line their pockets. Not much has changed it appears except no one seems to be going to prison lately."

First of all, Dal Smilie went to jail for fraudulent travel expenses. He was not on the OEMs take and he had nothing to do with writing those rules.

Regardless, it sounds like you think I am on the take and should be in jail? Really?

Hellion, I chimed in here because the thread was directed towards me. Now I regret it, because everyone seems to like putting words in my mouth and thoughts in my head.

And mynewcr250, the OEMs have some say and influence on every rulebook that's written in motorcycle racing, and probably auto racing as well. They make the equipment.

My primary fear with 250cc two-strokes is that one team will go all-in with them, develop them quickly, and dominate. If you think the OEMs will respond by going back to two-strokes, you are wrong. They will simply quit racing, that's my fear.

The US is different from these other series in size, magnitude, and investment by the five factories, all of which have equal influence. There is a balance right now in pro racing, and it appears to be working in that all five are very involved in both MX and SX and don't want to develop another set of bikes for those two series.

It is not ideal, but it's not as broken as you think.

DC
MX Sports
Sounds like Newman was calling the AMA corrupt , not you and when it comes to the AMA they have always had two sets of rules, one set for the factorys and one set for everyone else. A couple example are the claiming rule and RC getting busted for illegal fuel
I am glad to see the downfall of the AMA and the sooner they are out of racing the better.

So maybe a team goes all in and wins in the 250 glass on a two stroke, big deal, the 450s 4 stokes would still be winning and the 2 stroke 250s would bring much needed interest back to the Nationals. The 250 class is smaller and smaller every year on the local level because of the cost repair of 4 stroke 250s . Let the two stokes have the 250 class but I don't think they will dominate like you seem to think. When the 250 class dies off completely because of the cost to race a 4 stroke who are you going to blame then ?
aFACEdismembered 10/12/2013 11:29am
10/12/2013 11:29am
Toste wrote:
I think financially relying so heavily on Japanese OEM involvement is a mistake. Suzuki has already basically "cried Uncle". With MX bike sales trending the way...
I think financially relying so heavily on Japanese OEM involvement is a mistake. Suzuki has already basically "cried Uncle". With MX bike sales trending the way they are, how much longer till the others follow suit? Unlike KTM, these are big companies that do not have off-road motorcycles as their "bread and butter" product line. If it doesn't pencil out in the ROI bottom line, they will stop doing it. Within the next decade, I could easily see all the Japanese OEMs out of the MX business altogether (including producing bikes).

Not trying to be "doom & gloom"...because factory teams or not, I think the Nationals will carry on with similar spectator attendance and rider participation. I just think it's foolish to bend to the will of companies who will likely be out of the game in the not-too-distant future anyway.
Yamaha cried uncle even more, they don't even have a true factory team anymore... it's outsourced like phone calls to India!
keyboardjockey750 10/12/2013 11:45am
10/12/2013 11:45am
Whats to stop Davey from giving the AMA the boot. Starting the "DMA" (Davey Motocross Association) coping the AMA rulebook but changing a few of those pesky rules.

Seriously what does the AMA do for professional racing but screw it up?

The Shop

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mototed 82 10/12/2013 11:46am
10/12/2013 11:46am
ok i only read the first page of this and have no easy answers but what i would say is boy the 4 strokes and in particular the 250f have improved something shocking since the rules were first introduced
GuyB
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GuyB 10/12/2013 12:07pm
10/12/2013 12:07pm
mynewcr250 wrote:
[img]https://robpetkau.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/pot-and-kettke.jpg[/img]
GuyB wrote:
If you say so. But one of us heckles, and one has to try and keep it a level playing field among posters. You're smart enough...
If you say so. But one of us heckles, and one has to try and keep it a level playing field among posters. You're smart enough to figure out which is which. Smile

Besides, there are a batch of posters who could benefit from reading more than they type, and they haven't figured it out yet.
JW381 wrote:
You're drunk off your own internet authority, man.
Really? If that were the case, I'd have clicked all but a handful of people who's posts I can stomach reading. Smile

I look at it as more of a janitor's role, rather than some power trip. Think overalls, and pushing a broom. Someone has to take out the trash. Smile
DrSweden
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DrSweden 10/12/2013 12:30pm
10/12/2013 12:30pm Edited Date/Time 10/12/2013 12:47pm
A couple of hours ago. Enough BS, go ride (and support the sport, buy a smoker)! Wink


Someone here other than me and Newman actually premix?
OW38B
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OW38B 10/12/2013 12:34pm
10/12/2013 12:34pm
GuyB wrote:
Really? If that were the case, I'd have clicked all but a handful of people who's posts I can stomach reading. :) I look at it...
Really? If that were the case, I'd have clicked all but a handful of people who's posts I can stomach reading. Smile

I look at it as more of a janitor's role, rather than some power trip. Think overalls, and pushing a broom. Someone has to take out the trash. Smile
One man's trash is another man's treasure......

JG2
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JG2 10/12/2013 1:40pm
10/12/2013 1:40pm
My brother used to amateur roadrace up here and they had HP limits for the various classes and dyno'd the top 5 after every race...if you were over the HP limit for the class you got DQ'd.

Why not grab RV2's 450 and Tomac's 250 + a done up 250 SX, throw them on the dyno, use those numbers as a baseline for a class limit and let the guys race whatever they want. Why didn't they base the classes on HP rather than displacement to begin with - seems to me it would have solved a lot of these problems!
burn1986
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burn1986 10/12/2013 3:27pm
10/12/2013 3:27pm
I finally read the second page of this and DC's response. He's controlled by the factories (Honda mainly). Basically, the factories are trying to hang on in this economy, make as much money as they can, before it croaks and then pull out. DC, the vendors, the OEMs see the writing on the wall for this sport. There is no plan to revitalize Pro Racing, they are in funeral planning and they are going to lie as much as they can until they've milked it dry.
bd
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bd 10/12/2013 4:15pm
10/12/2013 4:15pm
burn1986 wrote:
I finally read the second page of this and DC's response. He's controlled by the factories (Honda mainly). Basically, the factories are trying to hang on...
I finally read the second page of this and DC's response. He's controlled by the factories (Honda mainly). Basically, the factories are trying to hang on in this economy, make as much money as they can, before it croaks and then pull out. DC, the vendors, the OEMs see the writing on the wall for this sport. There is no plan to revitalize Pro Racing, they are in funeral planning and they are going to lie as much as they can until they've milked it dry.
Zook.... want robust sales and growth? Sell the 2006 RM 250 engine in the 2013 RM-Z 250 chassis.

Read the article in the MXA about KTM.... the KTM executive literally stated the recession gave KTM and edge when the Japanese manufacturers froze.

Has nothing to about racing in pro class..... freezing is not sound business
vanillaice782 10/12/2013 4:18pm
10/12/2013 4:18pm Edited Date/Time 10/12/2013 4:19pm
burn1986 wrote:
I finally read the second page of this and DC's response. He's controlled by the factories (Honda mainly). Basically, the factories are trying to hang on...
I finally read the second page of this and DC's response. He's controlled by the factories (Honda mainly). Basically, the factories are trying to hang on in this economy, make as much money as they can, before it croaks and then pull out. DC, the vendors, the OEMs see the writing on the wall for this sport. There is no plan to revitalize Pro Racing, they are in funeral planning and they are going to lie as much as they can until they've milked it dry.
bd wrote:
Zook.... want robust sales and growth? Sell the 2006 RM 250 engine in the 2013 RM-Z 250 chassis. Read the article in the MXA about KTM...
Zook.... want robust sales and growth? Sell the 2006 RM 250 engine in the 2013 RM-Z 250 chassis.

Read the article in the MXA about KTM.... the KTM executive literally stated the recession gave KTM and edge when the Japanese manufacturers froze.

Has nothing to about racing in pro class..... freezing is not sound business
You mean one of these?! It's a 125 but close enough.

Radical
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Radical 10/12/2013 4:48pm
10/12/2013 4:48pm
DC
Thanks for all you're doing for our sport!
When the time is right to re-introduce 2 strokes, please consider my plan at the bottom of page 4 of this thread.

Thanks,
Have a great day!
Radical
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FreshTopEnd 10/12/2013 5:03pm
10/12/2013 5:03pm
xnationalwrench wrote:
It sounds like the real bitch is money it costs to race Pro. The fact is it does cost money and to be honest while it...
It sounds like the real bitch is money it costs to race Pro. The fact is it does cost money and to be honest while it was easy to obtain the Pro Card that doesn't mean you are going to be rich or really even call your self a pro. If you look at all the racers that don't qualify for the show it shows that. While some racers could benefit from a Works bike most still wouldn't qualify for the National Motos. The harsh and simple fact is the bottom tier should probably stay home and race local pro and not waste their money on the nationals. I know its everyone's dream to race Nationals but you need to be realistic about it also. Look at all the local racers that race Nascar local races, they all want to hit the big time but something's aren't possible. And you can say Moto is too expensive but check out some of the other types of racing and their costs to compete
This. There are some high people losing sleep over two strokes in the pro classes, the only place where this is an issue.

250fs are not a feeder class outdoors.

And why not start ragging on Feld, since DC has zero do with SX and there's no change happening without it happening there and the rules are going to harmonize with both series, and the tail isn't gong to wag the dog here.

The op's claim that DC is out of touch with the pro racers, the only constituency affected by this, is asinine.
burn1986
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burn1986 10/12/2013 5:17pm
10/12/2013 5:17pm Edited Date/Time 10/14/2013 3:08pm
Edited
just James
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just James 10/12/2013 5:29pm
10/12/2013 5:29pm
If we are voting here, I'm all for 250 VS 250.
The only dirt bike I own is a two stroke.
I know that the Japanese companies make quality bikes, but I would not buy one.
Simply a "one man boycott" because of their stance toward the rules.
Indy mxer
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Indy mxer 10/12/2013 6:06pm
10/12/2013 6:06pm
burn1986 wrote:
There needs to be a change in the rules. And yes DC could allow some 2-stroke involvement outside of the premier classes at his events, but...
There needs to be a change in the rules.
And yes DC could allow some 2-stroke involvement outside of the premier classes at his events, but has refused.
Honda controls all AMA Pro MX and SX rules. Only they can make a rule change (and we know how they feel about 2-strokes).

US Pro MX racing is a show set up by DC (or promoters in general), Honda (and other manufacturers), and the AMA. It is their show, not anyone else's. We can show up and watch, and maybe even participate, but we have absolutely no say on what they do with their business. Just something to keep in mind.
Without the manufacturers Pro MX/SX is dead.
Sorta like NASCAR, F1, Indycar and Moto GP. Their support is critical.

Now, would I like to see all the Big 4 make 2 strokes again? Hell yes.
And I think a 125 class would be a good stepping stone for young riders.

But for now I'll take my Kaw 250F.
Overdrive
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Overdrive 10/12/2013 6:19pm
10/12/2013 6:19pm
xnationalwrench wrote:
It sounds like the real bitch is money it costs to race Pro. The fact is it does cost money and to be honest while it...
It sounds like the real bitch is money it costs to race Pro. The fact is it does cost money and to be honest while it was easy to obtain the Pro Card that doesn't mean you are going to be rich or really even call your self a pro. If you look at all the racers that don't qualify for the show it shows that. While some racers could benefit from a Works bike most still wouldn't qualify for the National Motos. The harsh and simple fact is the bottom tier should probably stay home and race local pro and not waste their money on the nationals. I know its everyone's dream to race Nationals but you need to be realistic about it also. Look at all the local racers that race Nascar local races, they all want to hit the big time but something's aren't possible. And you can say Moto is too expensive but check out some of the other types of racing and their costs to compete
FreshTopEnd wrote:
This. There are some high people losing sleep over two strokes in the pro classes, the only place where this is an issue. 250fs are not...
This. There are some high people losing sleep over two strokes in the pro classes, the only place where this is an issue.

250fs are not a feeder class outdoors.

And why not start ragging on Feld, since DC has zero do with SX and there's no change happening without it happening there and the rules are going to harmonize with both series, and the tail isn't gong to wag the dog here.

The op's claim that DC is out of touch with the pro racers, the only constituency affected by this, is asinine.
It is about what it costs to race Pro, the manufacturers continue to push bike technology further to gain an edge on the competition. This technology raises the price of the ONLY bikes that they offer on the show room floor to the weekend warrior at an ever increasing price point. The weekend warrior doesn't need RV's bike, he needs money to make it to the races, buy fuel and entry fee's.

This increasing price point is damaging the sport, there is no economical alternative at the national level or local level. The weekend warrior can't afford a 10k dollar bike that takes 2g's to rebuild, nor can he even come close to using that bike to its full potential, 99% of the people out there can't use a 450 anywhere close to its full potential. But every year the bikes are faster and more expensive.

So if we want a new Japanese bike we are expected to over pay for something we can't utilize and can't service because the manufacturers want to win the sx and mx championships.

Its gone to far and its damaging the sport financially, from the top national team having a hard time paying the bills down to the weekend warrior who leaves the cycle show room without buying a new bike.

Pit Row

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rrjr
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rrjr 10/12/2013 9:04pm
10/12/2013 9:04pm
GuyB wrote:
Fortunately, it's not run by donkeys on motocross forums. And that includes this one.
dazzlindino wrote:
I am not a donkey....even tho I resemble that remark....haha.....
GuyB wrote:
Well, click click couldn't stick to trying to present his posts without unnecessary name-calling. That's why he got the bang bang of a timeout.
Can you please explain your reasoning that calling someone a donkey isn't a form of unnecessary name-calling? Huh
JM485
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JM485 10/12/2013 9:47pm
10/12/2013 9:47pm
After reading most of this, I have enormous respect for DC and how he conducts himself with all the bashing in his direction. Obviously he wants nothing more than to see the sport thrive, but I do think a big opportunity is being missed by not making it easier for two strokes to race at the top level.

Here is my thought, sorry if it has been discussed already, I only did a quick skim through the thread. Since the 250 class is not a "feeder" class anymore, why not create a new 125cc only class that is. It seems like the nationals have been even tougher for the pros this year without the WMX races to space out the motos, so why not have a 125 class take the place of it. Newer riders could make the transition from amateur to pro and not be racing at the incredible speeds that the 250 class runs currently, and it might make the transition to pro level racing easier and safer.

I'm sure there is more going on behind the scenes than any of us could ever know, and I trust DC's judgment, but I think that a third class might be a good option. Just an idea, please take it as such. . .
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 10/12/2013 10:00pm
10/12/2013 10:00pm
Guy,
If I ever get the button...I'm giving you a Time-Out for throwing Pearls at Swine.
observer
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observer 10/12/2013 10:18pm
10/12/2013 10:18pm
newmann wrote:
No Davey, quite the opposite. I've always considered you one of the best things to happen to the sport and still do. Never once have I...
No Davey, quite the opposite. I've always considered you one of the best things to happen to the sport and still do. Never once have I passed you at the races without at least making an attempt to shake your hand and thank you for all you do. Doesn't make me have to appreciate the fact that no one seems too concerned about decades of 125 history being shit on here in the US. Best racing ever as far as I, the fan, is concerned and I don't think I am alone in thinking that it needs to return to the national stage.
Nope-not alone by a long shot. 125s would be the perfect elixer for riders 14-15 y/o-from 80s to the big wheels.
Just like it used to be....
observer
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observer 10/12/2013 10:44pm
10/12/2013 10:44pm
Also............KTM figured out a long time ago that a lot(not all, but a lot)of the buyers of 2t are old schoolers that have moved over into single track trail riding. And KTM RULES core single track offroading with there 250 & 300 XC-XCWe bikes.
We(old schoolers) also are the most gainfully employed and likely to spend more money on bikes, gear & garage goodies.
I know I'm far being the only one that looks around there garage and think......."I am truly eat up with it........." Huh Laughing
MX7MX
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MX7MX 10/13/2013 12:20am
10/13/2013 12:20am
Denn700 wrote:
At Swan last weekend (Texas Pro Challenge) it was the first year they allowed 250 two strokes in the 250 class. I thought for 5 seconds...
At Swan last weekend (Texas Pro Challenge) it was the first year they allowed 250 two strokes in the 250 class. I thought for 5 seconds they were an advantage when a guy trippled through the rythem section on a 250 two stroke but then I noticed all the top guys on 250f's were doing it too. The top 3 guys were all on 250F's. There was a guy on a KTM 250SX that was
running in the top 5 but he lost a couple of spots the last few laps. I dont know if the bike made him tired or if it was just him. There was a lot of two strokes out there and the bikes were evenly matched. Anyone who has been to Swan knows how fast that track is. If it works every where else then why wouldnt it work for the pro nationals?
There you have it then. You have your CC vs CC racing. Why, please explain WHY the pro's have to do this??

Also, the OP states that he wants it fair so the other people can afford it. The HELL with that. That's life! I wished I was rich enough to afford alot of things. Just because someone has heart, hell I have A LOT of heart........just no money. My last car was an 08 Corvette Z06. I wanted the whole heads, cam, turbo's or supercharges to be able to keep up with my friends cars who were faster. You know what...........I was EXTREMELY passionate about it and still HAVE A LOT OF HEART.......but not enough money to afford the mods. The point is.....LIFE is what happened to those people......PERIOD. Just because someone DESERVES or HAS HEART or talent doesn't mean we should give them ANY damn thing. If they can't afford it........they can't afford it......thats life. Even when two strokes were around........it was still expensive. If they were around now.......it'd STILL be expensive.

Like DC said, its not a feeder class. Nearly EVERY local race nowadays would allow CC for CC. WHY do the PROS have to do this? Lastly, I want a bigger house, a better truck, a new car, a river home, beach house, private jet etc. But guess what? REALITY CHECK, I CAN'T AFFORD IT. Its damn sure not because of a lack heart or talent. Its a lack of FUNDS!
wow123
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wow123 10/13/2013 4:20am
10/13/2013 4:20am
Aside from all the politics and the 5 pages

Having and equal amount of both 2 an 4 in a race would change the track and lines.

So how much would they change and would it make for better racing?

Yes imo but there is very few motor sports classes (to my knowledge) with different engines types.

a nsr 500 in moto gp?
wow123
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wow123 10/13/2013 4:37am
10/13/2013 4:37am
Jt$ wrote:
Strong 250 2 strokes have 55-58 hp. Factory 250f's have high 40's, close to 50 at best. So having privateers on bikes with 6-10 more hp...
Strong 250 2 strokes have 55-58 hp. Factory 250f's have high 40's, close to 50 at best. So having privateers on bikes with 6-10 more hp is the answer? I don't think that's really fair to teams that spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on
technology for their 250f either. Also, 250 2 strokes' disadvantage isn't rough tracks, it's traction IMO.

I don't have the answer but there are many more factors than you're listing.
The Rock wrote:
[i]I don't think that's really fair to teams that spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on technology for their 250f either[/i] I don't think it's fair...
I don't think that's really fair to teams that spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on
technology for their 250f either

I don't think it's fair that privateers have to compete with teams like PC that put in fresh motors before the start of the first 250 moto on race day at every National. If a team replaces a motor on race day the rider should get last gate pick.
well yep thats what moto gp did only 6 engines in a season, or something?

they pc/gieco would have to limil the output to keep em running
Indy mxer
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Indy mxer 10/13/2013 8:21am
10/13/2013 8:21am
Denn700 wrote:
At Swan last weekend (Texas Pro Challenge) it was the first year they allowed 250 two strokes in the 250 class. I thought for 5 seconds...
At Swan last weekend (Texas Pro Challenge) it was the first year they allowed 250 two strokes in the 250 class. I thought for 5 seconds they were an advantage when a guy trippled through the rythem section on a 250 two stroke but then I noticed all the top guys on 250f's were doing it too. The top 3 guys were all on 250F's. There was a guy on a KTM 250SX that was
running in the top 5 but he lost a couple of spots the last few laps. I dont know if the bike made him tired or if it was just him. There was a lot of two strokes out there and the bikes were evenly matched. Anyone who has been to Swan knows how fast that track is. If it works every where else then why wouldnt it work for the pro nationals?
MX7MX wrote:
There you have it then. You have your CC vs CC racing. Why, please explain WHY the pro's have to do this?? Also, the OP states...
There you have it then. You have your CC vs CC racing. Why, please explain WHY the pro's have to do this??

Also, the OP states that he wants it fair so the other people can afford it. The HELL with that. That's life! I wished I was rich enough to afford alot of things. Just because someone has heart, hell I have A LOT of heart........just no money. My last car was an 08 Corvette Z06. I wanted the whole heads, cam, turbo's or supercharges to be able to keep up with my friends cars who were faster. You know what...........I was EXTREMELY passionate about it and still HAVE A LOT OF HEART.......but not enough money to afford the mods. The point is.....LIFE is what happened to those people......PERIOD. Just because someone DESERVES or HAS HEART or talent doesn't mean we should give them ANY damn thing. If they can't afford it........they can't afford it......thats life. Even when two strokes were around........it was still expensive. If they were around now.......it'd STILL be expensive.

Like DC said, its not a feeder class. Nearly EVERY local race nowadays would allow CC for CC. WHY do the PROS have to do this? Lastly, I want a bigger house, a better truck, a new car, a river home, beach house, private jet etc. But guess what? REALITY CHECK, I CAN'T AFFORD IT. Its damn sure not because of a lack heart or talent. Its a lack of FUNDS!
Well said!!!
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TeamGreen 10/13/2013 9:14am
10/13/2013 9:14am
Denn700 wrote:
At Swan last weekend (Texas Pro Challenge) it was the first year they allowed 250 two strokes in the 250 class. I thought for 5 seconds...
At Swan last weekend (Texas Pro Challenge) it was the first year they allowed 250 two strokes in the 250 class. I thought for 5 seconds they were an advantage when a guy trippled through the rythem section on a 250 two stroke but then I noticed all the top guys on 250f's were doing it too. The top 3 guys were all on 250F's. There was a guy on a KTM 250SX that was
running in the top 5 but he lost a couple of spots the last few laps. I dont know if the bike made him tired or if it was just him. There was a lot of two strokes out there and the bikes were evenly matched. Anyone who has been to Swan knows how fast that track is. If it works every where else then why wouldnt it work for the pro nationals?
MX7MX wrote:
There you have it then. You have your CC vs CC racing. Why, please explain WHY the pro's have to do this?? Also, the OP states...
There you have it then. You have your CC vs CC racing. Why, please explain WHY the pro's have to do this??

Also, the OP states that he wants it fair so the other people can afford it. The HELL with that. That's life! I wished I was rich enough to afford alot of things. Just because someone has heart, hell I have A LOT of heart........just no money. My last car was an 08 Corvette Z06. I wanted the whole heads, cam, turbo's or supercharges to be able to keep up with my friends cars who were faster. You know what...........I was EXTREMELY passionate about it and still HAVE A LOT OF HEART.......but not enough money to afford the mods. The point is.....LIFE is what happened to those people......PERIOD. Just because someone DESERVES or HAS HEART or talent doesn't mean we should give them ANY damn thing. If they can't afford it........they can't afford it......thats life. Even when two strokes were around........it was still expensive. If they were around now.......it'd STILL be expensive.

Like DC said, its not a feeder class. Nearly EVERY local race nowadays would allow CC for CC. WHY do the PROS have to do this? Lastly, I want a bigger house, a better truck, a new car, a river home, beach house, private jet etc. But guess what? REALITY CHECK, I CAN'T AFFORD IT. Its damn sure not because of a lack heart or talent. Its a lack of FUNDS!
Indy mxer wrote:
Well said!!!
"but, it's Not FAIR!"

Laughing
Suns_PSD
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Suns_PSD 10/13/2013 9:59am
10/13/2013 9:59am
Protecting the Jap manufacturers would be so easy to implement with out giving them such a gross advantage like double dosplacement. I mean come on...

You could limit the 2 strokes to dyno less than 50 hp.
You could require them to be stock (frankly they would get destroyed by a factory 250F).
You could disallow any rider that has finished top 10 in a series or top 3 in a single race from racing the 2 stroke.

There are a million ways to continue to protect the Japs since that clearly is the objective.

I think the rule makers here in the states are a bunch of pussies for not doing anything to give some parity to the 2 different kinds of engines. And frankly, like any common sense proposal it will come to pass. It's just a matter of how far behind the curve we are going to be before it finally, out of neccesity it gets forced in..

You would have to be an idiot that has never actually ridden these motorcycles to not recognize, that they could allow the 2 strokes in tomorrow and nothing would change results wise. Any rider that finished well on his 2 stroke would get upgraded to a 4 stroke in a heartbeat anyways.
CR250Rider
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CR250Rider 10/13/2013 10:07am
10/13/2013 10:07am
We've seen the staggered start in SX, Since the 4 stroke would be at a disadvantage from the starting line, 4 strokes get to go first.
There, Honda and their subsidiaries are protected.

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