The Triumph frame video was pretty interesting and had a lot of development details that are easy to miss if you're not looking for them. I haven't seen any other manufacturer showing details like this, so it's pretty cool they did.
The video showed multiple different frames in different stages of development. I would assume one of the first frames created was the 3D printed frame. This looks to be printed from aluminum and used as a mock up rather than an actual prototype that someone would test, but it's possible they finished it and rode with it (they just didn't show any photos of it complete). 3D printing aluminum isn't quite up to the strength levels of other techniques, so I'm betting this was just a mock up.
Here's the printer creating a section of the frame. The print bed is full of aluminum powder and a wiper goes over it to level it out. A laser then melts a thin layer of powder into solid aluminum. The wiper moves a thin layer of powder over that, then the laser melts another layer on top of the previous layer. This repeats thousands of times until the full 3D part is complete.
The printed frame is done in sections as the printer simply isn't big enough to print it all in one piece. They show the complete frame here, where you can see at least three separate sections. This image shows it loosely assembled, not welded (or bonded or whatever) at the joints of each section. Note that they modeled in weld beads (in CAD) so the printed frame better represents the final product.
They also show a lot of machining. This would be the next level of development where the frames are used for riding/testing. CNC machining the portions that would eventually be cast or forged is a quick way to try different designs before settling on a final design to create production tooling for. Production tooling is REALLY expensive and has long lead times, so machining prototypes is the only way to go. They're not machining production frames as that would be too expensive.
Here they're machining what looks to be the top section with the shock tower. The CNC machine is a 3-axis Hurco VM series mill, likely a VM10i (I know because I have a VM20i). For reference the table size on a VM10i is 30 inches, so that section of frame is about 24 inches long.
They show some welding of the prototype frames here. The frame is held in a jig for alignment and welded together. You can see the machined sections (tool marks are visible) being welded up with bungs and various pieces. This looks to be the front section with the head tube.
These welded frames are definitely used for testing. I've seen some MXGP frames that are welded up with machined sections and raced. But that's too expensive for a production bike. The video shows what I'm assuming are final production frames too. Here you can see the head tube assembly of a production frame with cast sections welded up, then finish machined (threaded bungs, steering stops, etc.).
Another image of a production piece. The Triumph logo is cast in along with some markings that are to identify the casting lots, manufacturing date, and such:
There's some speculation in the other threads about triumph not being ready and from the frame alone, it looks like they will be. Production tooling takes a long time to create and you better be confident that your design is good to go as changes are expensive. This frame looks like a full production level piece. I wouldn't be surprised if they had 400+ of these ready to go already.
There are some other details in the video too. They pan over a complete bike in a few shots, but they're zoomed too far in to get an idea of what it looks like. But you can see parts of the motor, bolt on pieces, etc. The motor has what looks to be a final casting of the head:
Here's what looks to be a production level frame with a machined motor mount. The mounts will most likely be cast, similar to KTM and others, but at the time they took this photo they were probably still testing these.
Who knows where they're at with that particular piece right now, but I would bet they have nearly complete production level bikes right now. It's impressive that they've kept it under wraps for so long with no real leaks. I'm looking forward to the next reveals, hopefully they show a complete bike soon.
Great write up. I love the technical stuff.
Do you know if the current KTM stock pegs are 3D printed? I was told by a dealer that they are starting on the 23 models.
Excellent analysis & explanation. Thanks for taking the time and sharing it with us. 👍🏼
KTM pegs are cast. You're not going to find many production 3D printed parts in general as it's a slow and expensive process.
There are some, but they're typically engine internals that aren't structural. 3D printing allows for some parts to be combined into a single part that otherwise wouldn't be manufacturable, which ends up being a net cost savings.
There are some structural 3D printed parts in the bicycle industry, but that's not really what I would consider production level (bicycle prices are astronomical these days, so they can get away with it and it's pretty small scale production).
Really cool write up . If you see other cool things along the drop s , u should add them here . I am sure like me . Alot here would like to hear your thoughts on the bike
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I haven’t gone to a machine show/expo in a few years…what are the really good printers going for these days? How expensive is the media?
Thanks for the insight Billy! Great information as always!
His insights are well written and easy for the rest of us to follow. NICE!
He’s enthusiastic about sharing his knowledge. Very Cool.
His clamps & machined parts are actually Too Damn Nice! Also…Very Cool!
Awesome job Billy, thanks 👍
Hate to state the obvious, but going by the closest frame casting in the production frame image, the one with the Triumph logo visible... They had a production frame in their hands way back then in May 2022??
That is indeed impressive and gives more credence to them being ready to rock come next season.
Yup
If you stop and take a look at who’s in that video and exactly what they’re saying…plenty of time and care is being used to make very well informed decisions and it’s being done by people that area extremely well versed in bike development and testing.
It's been a while since I've really looked into it, but they're in the neighborhood of $800k - $1M for a proper one that prints metal. Not sure what the media costs, but it's pricey. There's a lot more to it than just printing too. There's media recovery, filtration, etc. that needs to happen in a different device so you're not wasting a ton of media.
Here's a quick video that goes over some of it. Note the required PPE so you don't breathe in the metal powder and how much is involved! And in the end, you usually need to finish machine the parts to make them functional (threads, precision bores, etc.).
I looked into 3D printing some titanium clamps a few years back, but the benefit just wasn't there and they would have been heavier than machined aluminum. The aluminum that can be printed now isn't terribly strong, plus it has questionable properties, particularly in the build direction (across layers). But the tech keeps getting better, so I bet it will be viable soon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkMRzpobmQQ
Sig is printing suppressors with titanium which is really impressive considering the pressures involved.
I saw a brief video on that recently, impressive for sure, Sig seem to be smashing it on all fronts at the moment, exciting times for them.
The 'plastic ammo' development side of things is quite interesting also, especially with the larger calibre favoured now.
Feels like we're on the brink, or currently in, the next real-world widespread step forward in engineering. I remember about 10 years ago Ford said they'd have plastic ICE pistons in the not too distant future and I thought it was insane at the time 😂
Maybe this has been addressed now, but with the fusion printers I thought there were significant residual internal stresses within the parts that needed to be relieved before they were functional as well for high stress applications. I had looked into having some parts printed in aluminum but the cost was astronomical (and with good reason given the intensity of the process), I’m kind of surprised they went so far as to have entire frame sections printed in aluminum rather than a high rigidity plastic if it was just for mock-up purposes prior to creating prototype machined sections.
How much pressure or force are you talking about?
Awesome! Thanks for the info!
Fusion printed metal components for full function applications are almost always HIPped.
Hot Isostatic Pressing involves the part being placed inside a container welded closed, a gas introducecd then heated (up to 2500 F in the case of super alloys, less for Ti and Al) and pressurised at 30,000 psi to fully densify the material and reduce or remove voids and for stress relief. Further heat treatment processing may also be required as well as finish machining.
Not really applicable to low cost motorcycles. More aerospace and medical and maybe high end bicycles
Even if you can 3D print for free, unless you have full 3D CT scanner to validate the print has no voids, the kit and costs of productionizing that are huge, £1m for a machine that wouldnt be big enough to do a frame.
Great for prototyping though.
The tech is improving to help minimize residual stresses, but they'll always be there to some extent. There are different fusion patterns the laser can take given the section area and profile, and changing the laser scan angle every layer too. Post heat treatment can help as well. But it's just another unknown as it changes for every part. One more reason you don't see many structural 3D printed parts.
The Sig suppressor mentioned earlier makes sense to 3D print since it would be really difficult if not impossible to manufacture with traditional methods (lots of internal channels, baffles, etc.), but it sells for nearly $1k too!
Pit Row
You can see the header in this shot as well, so you can see they didn't go the route of the reversed Yamaha-style engine. I was secretly hoping another manufacturer would give that style a go in their own way.
I also was hoping for reversal of the engine.
still excited to see a new team. I feel a-lot of buys coming. Hopefully some cool merch too. Support, cool and new.
I have heard KTM Team riders using 3D printed titanium pegs made by Akrapovic not production bikes.
I’m 33 and can’t remember a brand new bike like this being brought to market for racing the SX class. Maybe KTM with Dungey is the closest analog from my lifetime?
Really cool to see and with Beta and Ducati coming in the next several years it feels like there will be a lot of new stuff happening that hasn’t happened in a long time.
At last, a grown-up thread!. With Stark, Triumph and Ducati joining the party it is a very interesting time for dirt bikes. All 3 have impressive engineering resources at their disposal.The Japanese manufacturers are asleep at the wheel.
By the way, they 3d print aero engine blades, so (smaller) stressed parts can definitely be made that way... Not cheap though and certainly not yet commercially viable for frames.
'Can be' , and 'should be' are not the same.
I have spent a lot of time measuring 3D printed parts, as part of a team trying to perfect processes, have done lots of aero engine parts, and we did some 'proof of concept'; triple clamps and fork bottoms.
Whatever they settle on for the frame, they will want it to be minimal machining , as close to net shape as they can get.
I have an Aprilia SXV frame that is cast/tube trellis and it is a proper lesson in minimalism with regards to simplifying manufacture.
“The Japanese manufacturers are asleep at the wheel.“
It interestingly looks like what happened to the British bike industry, when the Japanese “took over”. In the 1960’s/‘70’s
The next “changing of the guard”?
Changing to "British" bikes made in Thailand, Brazil and India?
I was thinking more; changing to bikes made in Austria 🇦🇹, Italy 🇮🇹, Germany 🇩🇪, and other places.
3D printing is here and it can be used for production in small numbers, like 400 dirt bikes for sure. They can print carbon, aluminum, steel, Ti, composites, alloys. There is a place in So Cal that has printers large enough to print a dirt bike frame in one piece. They make suspension components chassis competes. The place has been expanding for years, yet most of their parts are for prototyping or special projects or race cars parts. After printing, most parts have to be machined for stuff like bearings, tight tolerance items.
Check it out: https://www.divergent3d.com
Varies with ammo, barrel length and of course suppressor use but I think approaching 10-15,000 psi in a 'typical' US 16" AR firing 5.56.
It ramps up a lot with shorter barrels and probably the new 6.8.
Zehn, I also remember the mention of Akrapovic printed Ti pegs, crazy times
Cool to hear thoughts from someone thats dealing with manufacturing on a daily basis as well. That center sand cast section isn't terribly expensive, the side pieces appear to be die cast which will be much more expensive.
I think people are still forgetting that Triumph is new to dirtbikes yes but they have been making bikes for a long time. And they have been designing and successfully producing complicated aluminum frames and swingarms for 20+ years. I think in their eyes they haven't been as concerned about how to actually make the bike as they have on all the numbers being right as far as geometry, weight, chassis feel etc. Makes sense why they have hired so many guys from within the industry to gain knowledge.
I mean look at the current speed triple, This dirtbike frame is simple in comparison as far as the nuts and bolts of producing it goes. Look at the frame and swingarm and even the subframe and passenger pegs of this bike almost a work of art and is all visible so has to be functional but also look good.
Also dont forget the damn plastics for these dirt bikes is going to be high on the list of cost as well, im sure they will have Acerbis or Cycra producing them but they will be flipping the bill for the molds which for all the plastics on a bike could be 250k-400k just depends on how complicated and the quantities.
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