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3/6/2024
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Edited Date/Time
3/10/2024 6:27am
that race sucked
...harder than a 2 for 1 special at the local strip club.
Had it been a total mudder, it would have been much more raceable than the others we had this year..
riders paddling their way around the track in mud sux more..
Sure seemed like they wasted a lot of floor space with that tight little s turn.
One rut racing sucks.
I would rather have a 45 second lap time and better racing than them do stuff like that to get the laps over 50 seconds.
Even the finish line corner/jump was one lined and it was obvious that jumping right to left was what everybody was doing.
unacceptable to have 1 line racing. figure it out..not hard to move dirt if it's laying around
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I started a thread on track design last night and apparently the moderators believe track design discussion is not relevant in a moto forum, so they sent it to the dumbgeon.
https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/dumbgeon/spy-photo-2025-supercross
Here's my prediction of our future Supercross tracks:
Maybe they should have talked about it on the broadcast, maybe they did and I missed it. But they changed the track design because of the rain that was expected. They changed it so they would have a safer, more raceable track if it turned into a major mud race. By the time they can see what the storm is going to do, there is not enough time to make major track changes.
That was really bad
Yes, and this is lame. There's nothing safer than adding water to an SX track, just look at the two mudders this year, perfectly safe. No need to remove the 9 jumping bumps, these are the best riders in the world and they should have to deal with the elements and struggle through them during a mud race.
This year should have an asterisk on it to identify the new era of Supercross:
No more dragon's backs***
No more proper whoop sections******************
Former whoops have been changed to a 9 bump design***
No more skimming, just jump through 9 bumps***
No more sets of 9 bumps when there's rain in the forecast***
If it rains and 9 bumps have already been made, bulldoze them to make it easier***
What else am I missing?
Still better than watching another mud race.
A track without whoops is like a strip club without alcohol.The whole vibe is different. 🤨
I’m with you!
these are the best guys at their trade, I want conditions to be hard for them.
a bit like the ‘bikes are too fast’ argument… I wanna see the best riders wrestle monsters of machines around the toughest race tracks, teetering on the edge of danger, wet, dry, sand, hardpack, doesn’t matter. Give us a spectacle to be in awe at.
Yeah since when do mud races race well? I don't get the thought process, mud races have never raced well so they try to make it easier and make a track that will not race well whether it's wet or dry??
Leave the tracks as they always have been, stop the dumbing down process that began this year. Someone is going to race the muddy track well and someone is going to win the race, even if it means they lap the field. Let the men be separated from the boys, instead of treating them all like boys now:
Dumbing down the tracks, dumbing down the fans, and some not so great announcers. Sit back and watch moto grow 🤢
Now flip over to Argentina today and look at a beautiful track with kick ass racing!!
They did what they thought was best for viewing/racing given the pending rain expectations. Rain didn’t materialize fully but I thank them for entertaining the idea to make it better for us viewers to not have to watch duck paddling and skis out racing. There will be bitching either way but I’ll take this way any day.
I think the goal was to make a track that was not a sloppy paddlefest like most tracks get when muddy. To try and keep the speeds up and keep it exciting for the fans. WHile making it safer and also giving them a track they could groom into decent shape before each start.
More technical tracks tend to result in worse racing and more injuries. You tend to have closer racing on easier tracks too. Closer racing tends to be more exciting.
Perhaps You should watch the Erzberg enduro if you want to see a survivor style track. I would rather watch a race like last night than another mud race with people just trying to make it around the track.
Bikes change, Styles change, obstacles change. The first ever supercross tracks had more singles than a stripclub . Bikes used to be slower and have crappy brakes. If the changes to the tracks do not result in better racing, and fewer injuries , and whatever else they are trying to get as a result. They can always change the way they do things. You will never make everybody happy, when You are building a track, or putting on a show. Most often the goal ends up being to make it satisfy the biggest group.
I thought the track was not that great too. And I bet that Feld and Dirtworks would have rather had it different too. Anytime you try to make improvements or changes, You will sometimes go backwards. The good news is that there is another race next week that they get a chance at trying it again.
Yes so where did this the process come into play that dumbing down a track will make it race better if it's a mudder? Show me a muddy track that raced better when it was dumbed down? Muddy races will always be duck paddling, watch the video above of Reed and Stewart duck paddling and getting stuck. This is how rain races will always be, you can't control it by flattening the track, so leave the tracks alone.
How did bulldozing the whoops at San Francisco work out this year? The fastest guy in the series got lapped, so did the track really race better since it was dumbed down?
if its gonna be a mudder, the racing is gonna be shit regardless. Its inherently going to be that way due to the separation the ruts create, so gaps are a lot bigger. So Imo, there's no reason to dumb the track down in advance. If anything, it's kinda cool to see the riders navigate steep jumps in the mud, shows the difficulty. Also you can always dumb a track down, but you can't build it back up, so there is literally no point to making it easy before and risk ruining a race which is what they did last night.
Pit Row
When it's sloppy, it's sloppy and you can't control it no matter if the track is flat or has 90' triples and 20 whoop sections. They will paddle around in deep ruts and roll things if they can't jump it, so leave it as it should be and always has been in this sport. This "dumbing down to prepare for rain" stupidity backfired on them yesterday because it turned out to be dry and they had a dry track that didn't race well, instead of a proper track that would have raced well. Mudders will be mudders, and changing the track will not change a thing.
Nice, someone gets it.
With the 9 Whoop rule, no Dragonsback…etc., I can understand the point you’re making and I’ve even heard others imply the ol’ “asterisk” argument for this season or use the term “Safetycross” (me)….’cause, a proper Whoops section is what makes it a Supercross track.
As for last night? I have no complaints when I take into consideration the literal Shit Storm they were dealing with.
We had a lap time of over 50 seconds and…no matter who bitches about “one line racing”, I saw plenty of passing. Go look at El Hombre’s lap chart.
Sometimes I think we get a little too “pearl clutching” and we forget what the track builders were dealing with when it comes to weather and precipitation.
That’s your opinion and that’s fine, but I can tell that you are stuck on “it’s always been that way, so it will always be that way” crowd. Resisting change because of BITD. I’d rather not watch the worlds best SX riders flop through whoops like it’s extreme enduro or have to barely make the climbs over what was supposed to be a triple and call it racing. Sorry but we’ll have to agree to dis agree.
If it means anything, we've had no injuries to the heavy hitters in the premier class right?
Saw this in the Dumbgeon and laughed my ass off...then made this comment:
"Huntah just took his shirt off".
Yes, the track like many this year have sucked balls. 1 line wonder. Sure was hoping for a mudder to mix things up.
I'm open minded on this one but people are having a hard time justifying the thought process of dumbing down the track for rain. If their mindset was to prepare for a San Francisco scenario, what difference would it have made in the racing? The racing would still be shit no matter how much they try to control it, SF was proof. Mudders are always going to race like mudders, period. Mudders are going to happen and you can't control it unless you are in a covered stadium, it's part of the sport. Ruts on a muddy flat track or ruts over muddy jumps, it's the same battle with the only difference being you might have one rider excel and actually do some of the jumps. Is this a bad thing to have a rider separate himself, or do you want them all to be even and not offer a chance to separate themselves? Were they not duck paddling in San Francisco after they flattened the whoops?
So if it's up to you or anyone else who agrees with dumbing down the tracks for rain, would you not like to see a race like this where most of the world's best struggle while another one of the world's best excelled and lapped the field? If they flattened all the jumps RC wouldn't have had anything to jump to show his pure dominance that day (or set a record). Would you prefer to cancel a race like this now or any supercross like SF if there's a big storm in the forecast? Mudders have a way of shaking things up, and changing the tracks won't change a thing. Watch SF for reference, they already tried it and it changed nothing.
Knew it was gonna be terrible as soon as I played it on mx bikes. Really sucks bc the Atlanta speedway had delivered every year and they just took it away for no reason
Just because mud races make for worse racing, that doesn't mean they should not try to make the racing better. If anything shouldn't that be more of a reason to try and make it better? Or nah just forget it. I would say that a whoop section with 4 guys down, blocking the entire track. And guys going off the track , crashing in them. Seems like removing a section that causes so many issues when wet is a good idea to try.
Don't bother watering a track because it sucks when its dusty. A dusty track just sucks, its the weather deal with it.
Don't bother grooming the tracks ever again either.
Never try anything new , if something sucks , its just gonna keep on sucking.
As cool as it was to see RC lap second. Wouldn't it have been more exciting if you had 4 guys on the lead lap, with 3 of them battling back and forth instead of a total runaway?
How would Jett lapping second place last night have been more exciting? It would have been history. But a close race with 4 guys finishing within a few seconds of each other would be more exciting to me anyway.
Was the track last night the best it could be? Who knows. But I'm glad they are trying to make things better. Rather than just leaving things alone. Things would never happen if everybody just left things as they always have been. You try new stuff, sometimes it works, sometimes You need another try.
Are you forgetting they tried to "fix it" in San Francisco for the mud race and it didn't work? Did you not watch SF and realized they dumbed down the track to make it for better racing? Well, it didn't work and never will in the mud. Mud racing is mud racing. If it was so easy to make tracks with good racing, they would start with dry tracks and we would always have good racing every weekend on the dry tracks. But no, it's hard to predict even in the dry so don't even think you are going to make for good racing in the mud. For everyone arguing the point, they tried what you guys are claiming to do, and....it didn't work. Were there 4 guys battling for the lead and finishing within a few seconds of each other in SF??? No, not even close.
Show me a mud race that was better on dumbed down track. You can't because it doesn't happen. Mud races will be mud races and there will be plenty of carnage and upsets. So leave the tracks alone and give some of the men an opportunity to separate themselves. I'm guessing you guys also want to remove the quad from Daytona to make the racing better? Only one guy was doing it and it was dangerous right? "Flatten the quad, I want to see 4 guys battling for the lead"...this is the same stupidity you guys are arguing for.
Here the SF results in case you didn't watch it. Take a look at those gaps, and learn:
I was not a fan of the track map when it released and very few spots to make a move. If they are going to do an S turn configuration like that they need to have some type of "split lane" factored to not make it a single line section.
My opinion for what it’s worth. I think it would have been a clown fest with whoops. Even though the rain let up clay/dirt they brought in from another track would not have held up to whoops. Would have been rutted to much to ride, reason they raced without whoops.
As far as the layout. I said this last night in another thread, stadium looked to small for SX. I think the builders did the best they could with the dirt they had the the space given. Wet conditions didn’t help. Dryer track would have helped but some corners were way to tight, jumps hard to time and clear.
The top 15 riders in each class could ride the track, the rest seemed to struggle/case jumps.
Just my guess, but they won’t be back to Birmingham.
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