I come from the BMX world where back in "my day" (insert old man emoji) there were a handful of brands and the pro's were paid well with the amateurs being supported well too.
Then came more brands. At first it was great because their start up or opening budgets supported additional riders...but then reality hits after year two or three as they come to find out the pie had not grown, but the slices just smaller. This had a negative affect on the original brands as their customer base had been affected (reduced) with more brand offerings.
So my question: Globally: Can the MX industry consumer base support the additions of Stark, Beta and Triumph? Or does this mean less sales for the current/existing brands?
This isn't meaning to come across as negative...more-so curious.
I don't think any new brands with dethrone the core Japanese brands and Austrian brands. Kawi, yamaha, Honda, KTM, and suzuki aren't going anywhere and will continue being the leading bikes in the mx world. Just my opinion
Plenty of room for more brands...People are out there that like to ride different stuff other than a UJM or UAM motorcycle
I’ve wondered the same thing. Of course I wish them all success, however it is a small sport and only so much to go around.
I'm not sure Suzuki will be in that list for much longer unfortunately.
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“Plenty of room” is an exaggeration..that would suggest the market is underserved and it’s not (example- KTM giving out $2000 rebates means they needed to incentivize people to buy left over bikes)
The pie is only so big and new manufacturers will have to take sales away from existing manufacturers…New manufacturers doesn't mean the pie grows.
To grow the pie you need to attract a new customers with a new market. Two ways I think to attract new customers- new product (such as electric bike) and drastic price reduction (not going to happen)..
Last I checked over here it was over 15 freakn grand for a Yamaha 450.
That's what some us thought 10 years ago.
They seam to be invested in the USA market though.
Ya I thought about that after I commented. With the triumph coming in it may push out suzuki for good. Unless they upgrade their bike by alot
Your opinion. If there wasn't plenty room, then these other brands wouldn't exist would they? MX isn't the only off roading around.
Uhm…that’s the same as they cost here ( to USD) and your comment supports my point above- to grown the pie major cost reduction would be needed. $10k usd for a 450 is ridiculous..
I guess my opinion based on seeing large discounts having been offered by KTM, Kawasaki,.etc. Why offer discounts then if there is plenty of room?
That is a yearly cycle of business in motorcycles.
For a company like Beta it will be fine, they already make similar bikes, and they are not looking to take over the market. I think their MX plan is more geared towards marketing and creating brand awareness, and their MX offering will sell about as well as their other offerings.
Ducati is one of those love / hate bands, they have some cult followers, while other people just dont like the brand. The will be some of those cult followers that will buy their MX offering no matter what, while others will only be interested if it puts out great numbers or win the most. So initially they might be hard to get (due to the cult customer base) but if they are priced to high I can see the 2nd batch of bikes sitting, kinda like what happened with the first gen hypermotard.
Triumph is the one that I think will have a problem. While Beta and Ducati already has a customer base that will easily accept a MX bike, Triumph will have to attract people away from other brands. They can only do that by making a better bike or a cheaper bike, but I dont see that happening.
As for Suzuki, they have the cheapest bike in the class, and thats always going to be an advantage in the market place.
I’m going to say that the pie is what it is…more brands means each company gets a smaller piece of that pie…doesn’t mean they all can’t survive, just means they will all sell less bikes.
Now, there might be a ducati or triumph fan, who otherwise would never buy a dirt bike, that will purchase one just because those brands made one…but I think that will be an incredibly small number of people.
If the OEMs were doing something to create more riding areas but there are only so many places to ride and only so many riders. COVID exposed a larger population to off-road/MX but that seems to have slowed down and some are putting up low hour bikes for sale. We’ll see but I agree with the OP. Also don’t really see the benefit of the KTM group having 3 brands but I guess it’s working.
I think triumph and stark (probably to a lesser degree) were responding to large demand increases for dirt bikes in the covid years. Really it was a once in a generation blip that probably won’t be repeated. The volume of low hour dirt bikes hitting the market, now that people are back to having no spare time, is both extraordinary and predictable. Huge discounts available on new Austrian bikes at the moment here in Oz, tells the story also.
but 15k mx bikes?! The reality is most people can’t afford them now with higher interest rates, and people with families struggle for time. Do you really think all the stark buyers are going to get a new 18k aud stark, plus a 15k new 450? The pie is only so big, and it’s already been split in a lot of ways. I’m amazed the Japanese brands still show so much interest in MX really. Even Honda must wonder if it’s worth it. Their crf mx sales must be much lower today than 10-15 years ago.
I guess the manufacturers will respond like Suzuki, still putting out a bike but cutting back or eliminating r&d. So we get the same model for 5-8 years at a time, instead of 3-4 as in the past.
Yep walked into my local dealer today, one of the new LE 93 throw back YZ450's sitting there. Dam it looked good until I looked up and seen the price of just over $15,000!
Market has died in the ass over here, Covid hit, it was hard to even get a new bike, everyone was paying full price and over paying for second hand bikes. Now all those people who bought during Covid as they could not travel but could ride are selling, second hand market is flooded and Price for new bikes is crazy.
Was half looking for a YZ125 just 12 months ago, a 21 model would have still set me back $8000 min, seen one advertised today for $4500
Can see these new Beta and Triumph MX bikes being by only a small segment of the already small moto community, especially in Australia, and can't see either being sold in Aus for under $16,000 or $17,000.
Inflation hey!
I would be shocked to see Ducati build an MX bike.....if they do their price point will only make sense to their "fans" - the Triumph is close to launch so will be interesting to see, if it's a decent bike and priced right i can see them doing ok.
If i was either i would say fk the 450 and build a 350 Vet bike, maybe get a bigger piece of pie.....vets have cash the Japanese brands haven't gone for this market.
But i tend to agree with OP - not sure more brands will bring more health - more riding areas might
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I think they are seeing an increase of sales for kids MX bikes especially the easy to ride and maintained eMX bikes.
Mommy can buy one and plug it in and little Timmy can ride around in his backyard now in the suburbs.
That is showing manufacturers of a an increasing demographic for MX demand moving future. They are filling a vacuum they are projecting.
Prepare to be shocked then. They will enter MXGP in 2024.
I think there will be other brands. But the brands are going to be lower cost Chinese e-bikes. Like Sur-Ron Bee grows up. It won’t be because of save the planet climate change refugees wanting an e-bike. It will be cost. We are moving to a world of haves and have nots. Lower cost grown up e-bikes somewhere between a Sur-Ron Bee and a Stark Varg will be the new brands. We are a few years away, but not many.
More brands without a growing market leads to less sponsor money in the end. Very simple, a saturated market gives less volume per vendor and every vendor adds an overhead before they can chunck out sponsor money.
New brands take 1 million in sales away for established brands, means established brands losing out on margin dollars that could be spent on sponsorships while at the same time, the million given to the new brands does not even bring them to break even = no maegin money their either.
Of course, some take in external (investor) money but it does not hold up over time.
So all in all, short term good for consumers because it lowers pricing and increase availability, bad for sponsored riders since it typically is affordable margin dollars that goes into sponsorship and margin dollars is first to be cut to avoid going out of business. Of course, sponsorship is not the only thing dependent on a healthy margin.
Are the 3 Austrian brands ultimately cutting 3 slices of pie since they are owned by KTM?
Or did adding brands to their umbrella cut their own pie?
For those in the US, let me translate this for you (since Australian dollars are much different than US dollars)
LE 93 450 - $9,700 USD
YZ 125 12 months ago - $5,200 USD
YZ 125 listed for sale yesterday for $2,900 USD
I’m not sure more riding areas will get more people riding. I live in a town where we have literally 100s of thousands of acres of riding right outside of town. I ride directly from the garage to the trails, my bike rarely goes in the truck. And when I ride, I just don’t see many people out riding. Video games, helicopter parenting, expensive bikes, healthcare, all that and more keep people from getting involved.
And that’s ok.
Enjoy the sport for what it is. What it isn’t, is a sport with broad appeal, it’s always been a pretty small crowd that’s willing to take on the risk and expense. It’s a lifestyle that attracts a few great people, I’m good with a smaller number of great people instead of huge crowds..
To the OPs question, we have plenty of choices. The market will eat up the bad brands and the good ones will thrive. Ducati tried making dirt bikes back in the 70s, and they were pretty bad. Maybe this time will be different? As long as we have a half dozen brands to choose from, things will be good.
Not if you buy a 2 year old model...
Don't forget the brand new 2024.5 is on its way 😂
Will that be the electric start RMZ without the electric start.
If there wasn't a market, these brands wouldn't be there. Rebates, no rebates, low production numbers, etc.
There's a market, and it had a huge boom during covid. Now there's black clouds ahead, and all brands will have to weather the storm. It's going to be a rough couple years ahead, if not longer.
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