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The comments are golden. Some of you E-tards better get in there and straighten those folks out.
Not that the FIM has any credibility with me but that has zero to do with MXGP.
FIM is the governing body, responsible for both SuperEnduro and MXGP rules.
Better tell Stark. They don’t seem to have figured that out yet.
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Last2stroke :
"Honda must be bench marking their prototype against the Stark, it may need some improvements, there is no point bring a race bike to market with a lower performance."
This, without a doubt.
Every Manufacturer will have a (probably a few) Stark Vargs, and they will be using those, and subsequent updates, to measure their projects from. Though, I daresay the manufacturers, will Not be on Starks 'system', as the owners........
That the Varg is so bloody good ( had a recent ride on one, when a mate brought it over for me to re-locate the Phone to behind the handle bars) , at what I think is quite a reasonable price, given that they are a start up, with Nothing else to subsidize said development and production.
That bodes well for the Major Manufacturers to Not produce sub standard crap / toys, which is what I've seen with so much of the E Bike side of things up until now. That 'reasonable' price, hopefully will mean the Major Manufacturers, will not gouge prospective owners with their pricing. They should be able to price their bikes lower than Stark, but, they may well adopt the " Charge What The Market Will Bear " approach.
Me, as I've said many times, I see myself buying a E Bike, of the level of a Varg / Others to come, in a few years. Many upcoming 'repairs' to myself will limit my riding time for the next few years, so hopefully, I'll have a fair few 'mature products' in the form of Real Performance E bikes, to choose from after my 'upgrades'. And, I'll always have other ICE bikes still with me. Especially my Smokey, Cackling, Rattling, Vibratory old 500, and my booming Ducatis.
I have a feeling no matter what I say, you will always have a response, some people can't help themselves. But to your question, AMA, MXGP, etc. would not have a jobs at all without our traditional motorcycle manufacturers and race teams that have been showing up for 50 years. The more you guys beat the Stark drum and expecting the world to just stop for y'all, the less I like the brand.
Stark needs to get in line, and let the process play out, not expect the process to bend for them. MXGP was kind enough to acknowledge them, acknowledge the growing popularity, open the door, but when progress is not enough, it starts to look like a stain.
You must have missed my earlier comment about Stark turning up to race the FIM SuperEnduro, and the FIM changing the rules the day before to exclude them, that's a stain, that looks like a back room deal with a ICE OEM to exclude Stark.
The objections raised by the FIM and AMA about allowing Stark to race with ICE in existing classes, are what is the comparable power to existing ICE bikes, and safety concerns from other riders not being able to hear the Stark. The FIM and AMA could easily set a limit for power output, put factory bikes on a dyno, and limit the Stark to the power output of the factory bikes. The concern about other riders not being able to hear the Stark is laughable, when Dean Wilson was taken out by Vince Freise, he said he didn't know Vince was there, sounds like 450fs are too quiet and are a safety hazard.
What the FIM and AMA haven't stated is they want to maintain the status quo with ICE OEMs, if the FIM stated that they would be in breach of EU anti-competition laws, and be subject to fines from the EU Competition Commission.
How long will the AMA and FIM take to change the rules when Honda has a comparable electric motocross bike on the market?
Those 2 Ratbag Poms (listen to the start where they ask for people Not to get upset at their Brit accents!) on the MXGP Podcast Show / 2024 Argentina , get into the whole MXGPE class / Anton from Varg dummy spit from 1hr 22 minute, 50 seconds in, for those interested.
I 100% agree with what you are saying. I have no doubt this is political with OEMs stiff-arming promoters until they have a comparable product, and I agree FIM should have put thought into it before allowing and retracting Stark into SuperEnduro, that was a bonehead move without foresight, they should never have opened the door in the first place until they had their ducks in a row. I will be the first to tell you I f*cking hate politics and politicians and games played like this.
Now that everyone is level-set, and everyone knows where they stand, you would think they would be happy with a clear path forward. There is no questions, the goals become more clear, it should all be a good thing. And with the 2026 date announced, there is no doubt other manufacturers likely had say in that as they will either have a production model, or a raceable prototype as Honda did this year, so the OEMs are getting what they want (time) and Stark is getting the door opened for them for the big stage. It is a win all-around and time to prepare for it (for Stark), perhaps spend the time to refine the bikes, and build a formidable team which is also would be a huge advantage for them the next year and a half to put them ahead of the OEMs from the start. With that in mind, they would be wise to start saving their pennies to start considering contracts for team riders, if they want to win so bad at the top level, it won't happen without good riders.
Stop smoking Anton’s Crack pipe. Nobody cares about a broken promise in Super Enduro.
Name any other form of Motorsport that allows you to build any contraption you choose and changes the rules to allow it. Anton is a Moran for assuming they would be allowed because they changed the rules for 4 stroke. It’s doubtful he even knew the history of what actually took place.
It takes less skill and effort to ride the varg. Capping them to a similar HP level is not the answer for a level playing field. The torque curve of the machine makes them incompatible. Of course if Anton was looking for a level playfield he would have no objection to their own class.
Easy on the poms there mate 😂
Should this E Class be taken as confirmation they Honda are fairly close with their bike? When you think about how long it's been in development and how well it seemed to be going when Trey raced it (before the crash, damage and DNF) it seems reasonable?
Do any other manufacturers have any sneaky, Stark derived, works machinery kicking about behind closed doors?
Or is it just going to be Stark-fest? (Not saying there's anything wrong with that)
What it's likely to do is confirm nobody is interested in watching E-bikes race for hours.
"Until Honda release a production version it could be powered by unicorns."
This.
The bike had been unveiled at the 2017 Tokyo motorcycle show as a joint project with Mugen.
It raced for the first time last year, and did very well in Japan MX. Do they really need 2 more years to get ready?
It's been 7 years already, and still no specs in sight.
Outsiders will be there, like Flux, then, in spite of all that their CEO has publicly said, I'll bet KTM will be next.
How is Anton a moran for believing they would be allowed, when the rules clearly stated that they would be allowed before they were changed 24 hours before the race to keep them out? If you showed up to a race and the promotor decided the night before that no Kawis would be allowed because they don't like green plastic or whatever bullshit reason they come up with (after KTM lobbied them) you would be totally fine with that?
Honor among thieves...
Why is he crying about MXGP?
Maybe Honda will have their solid state battery ready to go by then? or have the bike for sale in dealers? Or could be to give other brands time so that it is more of a real race series and not just a Honda or 2 and then everybody else on Vargs. Could have something to do with current contracts as far as sponsors or permitting for races, or some seemingly unrelated thing.
And to the people saying Anton and Stark should be happy with getting a class at all. The push from Stark and support from people who want to see the Varg raced at the Pro level might be a big part of why they even have the series that is set to start in 2026. And after the Super enduro disaster, I don't blame Stark for keeping pushing. Afterall a lot can change in 2 years, and what is to stop Infront/MXGP from pushing that date out farther or dropping the class? Keeping a public push and showing they have support from fans could help make sure their " gift class" ever ends up happening. How often do MXGP's get canceled? seems like often there will be a change in location or event dropped. Stark may be ok with getting the class even though they really want to go heads up with the fastest classes. But They may also worry that they could spend a bunch of money to get ready for the series and have it pulled out from under them too.
It’s literally going exactly like the 4 strokes went. The 4 stroke nationals lasted what, 4 years? I wonder how long (or how many manufacturers enter the E class) before they decide to combine them? 🤔
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/13/ev-euphoria-is-dead-automakers-trumpet-…
Someone better tell the vitards. They won't believe us, maybe they will believe wall street.
Pit Row
I’m all for another platform especially when it can be a benefit for indoor racing but we are very far away from it becoming the norm. Quite the whirlwind for E bikes this past year, I didn’t think it would be adopted this quickly.
My antivirus stopped me from visiting that link. So I'm not sure what it says. But electric dirt bikes and electric cars are 2 very different things.
Would you also say that if new car sales overall are down , that ICE bikes are also in trouble? Its a totally different market.
Would you not also say vargs are part of the electrification euphoria that has petered out?
Certainly Starks sales going forward will show some impact if that is the case.
Electric bikes and the 3 dozen fans that like them should just have their own thing.
It'll be like indie music.
E moto is coming, there is no denying it. But Stark has to realize they aren't going to just be dropped in to the MXGP class without some development of the process. The rules will need to be written and tweaked. There has to be a current limit established that puts the ICE and E bikes on a similar power output. And even then, with the instant torque on the E bike, their power might actually be reduced below that of the ICE bike.
The E bike crowd should be happy they are making their way in to the next step of the process. A racing class where they can develop their product and also be scrutinized by the governing body. And with Stark seeming to have a head start in the process, their route to the podium should be the shortest and easiest, giving them lots of prime media attention.
I dont think its really the same thing. Nobody is claiming that a Varg will impact global warming in the way that electric cars get pushed.
I really just see them as totally different markets. Cordless tool sales are doing well and still growing and projected to grow.
Electric Yard Equipment sales keep increasing and more people say they will buy electric versions than past year.
I don't think that those stats are really relevant to the Varg sales other than people being more open to electric for smaller applications.
I think it means just what it most likely says. That Electric Car and truck sales are down. I think it means that we have gotten close enough to the threshold of too many EV's for the current charging network. But maybe not enough to fund more chargers being built. I think that there is misinformation put out by people on both sides of the argument and that some people may be turned away from EV's because of that.
The Tax law's and EV credit's have also changed and fewer vehicles qualify for they. So that would impact Car and Truck sales and not be factored into Varg sales. The EV tax credit is NOT available for the Varg . I don't know if the Varg would have ever qualified for tax credits since its an off road vehicle and not made or assembled in the US.
My social media is crickets now for Stark, all the "cant wait' guys seem to have gone to ground .
Ev start ups of all sorts are going bust because aside of the few who have to have the latest thing, nobody can find people to buy overpriced stuff in numbers to make it profitable
Only flip side of that, is E-Mtb which is fuelled mainly by blokes who are too fat to pedal a bike up a hill, and who suck at golf.
Don't mess with St Anton and The Church of the Holy Stark.
Some guys have never been seen again.
Hilarious!
So the same company that didn't bother to research distribution laws and thus still can't sell their product in multiple states also didn't bother to get ahead of the politics involved in getting the various sanctioning bodies to allow them to race their product. And now that one of the sanctioning bodies has created a "special" class for them...they want to take their ball and go home.
Maybe next time do more research on "going to market" and not just creating a product. All the turtleneck videos in the world won't change the status quo and sometimes you need to ease your product into the mix...or buy your way into the program.
The Donald is convinced!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fYlGk1UnK0
They are not saying they will not race the E class. Just that they would rather go against the best of the best in the MXGP and MX2 classes.
I don't think they expected to just be let in right away. Ever ask for a raise? Or offer a lower amount on something You want to buy? Sometimes You start out asking for more than you want so You get closer to what You really want. I think to a degree it is marketing and also bargaining to try and get as close to what they want as possible. Them pushing so hard to get let in sets the narrative that the bike is a big advantage and OEMS are afraid. And I'm sure to a degree that is true, but it also makes for great marketing and Anton has proven to be great at marketing.
The battery would most likely not let them run a 30 +2 right now or last year anyway . I think they realize it will take time to get into Pro racing at the highest levels. Maybe they thought it might be easier . Maybe not. There are a few things off the top of my head that were NOT legal in AMA racing until there was a bike that came stock with it. Traction control and EFI were not legal until they showed up on production bikes. Even front # plates were supposed to be totally flat for years according to the rule book. Not on the same level as the other 2 things. But at the sametime there was nothing specifically baring an Electric MX bike from racing either . So there is a precedent for rule changes when something is mass produced and homologated.
David confirmed he just don't give a fuck about Antons' requirements.
https://gatedrop.com/mxep-to-be-introduced-into-mxgp-for-2026-season/
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