How close are 250f to 250 2 strokes nowadays ?

11/24/2022 12:10am
Hi, I’m 200lb vet expert coming off a 250 2 stroke sx. Fancy a change for next season. I was thinking 350 450 as have a lot of previous experience on a 450, my only hesitation with the 450 is I feel although very efficient I loose a bit of a fun of riding.

Naturally 350 then, but it’s not easy finding a lowish hour clean one I want at the moment.

Someone has however for a very low hour 2022 sxf 250 for sale within budget. I’m a tad nervous as haven’t ridden a 250 for maybe 17 years !


Are they closer to 250 2 strokes or 125’s in real world terms ?

Anyone else done a Similar swap & have experiences ?

I plan on loosing more weight over winter get to 190lb
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Richy
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11/24/2022 12:25am Edited Date/Time 11/24/2022 12:26am
Personally, in the 'feeling' of power, not very similar to either, but in actual speed or laptime, 250 Vs 250 all day long.

You're plenty light enough for a 250f in the real world, for an average rider who isn't sold on 450s.
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TogaSet
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11/24/2022 12:55am
I believe McGrath said a modern 250F is faster than his old factory 250 two stroke. Don’t quote me though I doubt I could find it I could be wrong.
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11/24/2022 1:27am
Richy wrote:
Personally, in the 'feeling' of power, not very similar to either, but in actual speed or laptime, 250 Vs 250 all day long. You're plenty light...
Personally, in the 'feeling' of power, not very similar to either, but in actual speed or laptime, 250 Vs 250 all day long.

You're plenty light enough for a 250f in the real world, for an average rider who isn't sold on 450s.
Thanks, It’s tricky as I did get to ride a fantic 125 a fair bit recently, and I know I definitely would like a broader spread of power then that, I find when the track rough up I like to dissect the track a bit, miss the big holes bumps etc, the 250 2 stroke was good at that, just looking for the next step now in my vet era.

I noticed A few other fast vets on 250f going well so it kinda got my thinking I could be okay on one.



CPR
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11/24/2022 2:05am
Horses for courses, but they’re about as even as two completely different engine designs could be.
It’s a travesty that there’s not a true 250cc class in AMA pro racing.

You’ll likely be quicker on the 4t at some tracks, but they’re not as much fun as the 2t in my opinion.

The Shop

11/24/2022 2:20am
CPR wrote:
Horses for courses, but they’re about as even as two completely different engine designs could be. It’s a travesty that there’s not a true 250cc class...
Horses for courses, but they’re about as even as two completely different engine designs could be.
It’s a travesty that there’s not a true 250cc class in AMA pro racing.

You’ll likely be quicker on the 4t at some tracks, but they’re not as much fun as the 2t in my opinion.
Yeah it does feel a little bit to risk, I watch YouTube helmet cams & can see the 250f guys revving to a much higher windows of power, the smoker punched hard but signed off quick, so was having to shift a fair bit. Which is okay, but 2 seasons mostly just against 4 stroke gets you wondering a bit.

Also so over watered tracks with cambered long ruts can be tricky, smoker not by any means been bad always felt competitive, but having finished 3rd in the championship this year, wondering about an option for find abit more pace.
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ElliotB16
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11/24/2022 4:06am
I’m a 170lb vet rider. You have to ride the 250f more aggressive and keeping your roll speed thru corners is important. They’re way more agile and easier to ride than 450s. Lap times are usually even between the 250f and 450.
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250 cross
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11/24/2022 4:21am
I ride both two stroke and four stroke 250s on my home track with my riding buddy. He has both also so we ride the same when we ride. We were both vet experts when racing mx but now in our 60s. Recently we both trying to use up our mix for the season so he was on his two stroke but I was out of mix and had to ride my 20' four stroke. Where I was easily keeping pace with him on my two stoke I had to push as hard as I could to the point of riding on the edge to keep up with my four stoke. The difference was clear. This was with excellent fall soil conditions, hard pack would likely be another story.
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Richy
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11/24/2022 4:26am Edited Date/Time 11/25/2022 12:02am
CPR wrote:
Horses for courses, but they’re about as even as two completely different engine designs could be. It’s a travesty that there’s not a true 250cc class...
Horses for courses, but they’re about as even as two completely different engine designs could be.
It’s a travesty that there’s not a true 250cc class in AMA pro racing.

You’ll likely be quicker on the 4t at some tracks, but they’re not as much fun as the 2t in my opinion.
Yeah it does feel a little bit to risk, I watch YouTube helmet cams & can see the 250f guys revving to a much higher windows...
Yeah it does feel a little bit to risk, I watch YouTube helmet cams & can see the 250f guys revving to a much higher windows of power, the smoker punched hard but signed off quick, so was having to shift a fair bit. Which is okay, but 2 seasons mostly just against 4 stroke gets you wondering a bit.

Also so over watered tracks with cambered long ruts can be tricky, smoker not by any means been bad always felt competitive, but having finished 3rd in the championship this year, wondering about an option for find abit more pace.
If you're in the UK (I think that was you? Otherwise sorry haha), while the two strokes are more fun and I love the light and free feeling of them like most do, I think unless you are a real two stroke artist (and we do have our share) you'll probably go faster and more consistently on a 250/350 four, especially with it often being way too wet or way too hard-pack here.

I love the two stroke character and seeing a guy sticking it to the four stroke masses is always a pleasure to watch, like Nev Bradshaw or Brad Anderson or any fast local dude racing a two stroke, but real world if race results are your priority then four stroke.

That said I'm 100% buying a two stroke next, but for pure fun factor... horses for courses like CPR said.
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#434
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11/24/2022 4:36am Edited Date/Time 11/24/2022 4:37am
The more hard pack you ride, the more I would lean towards the 250f. Traction and controllability are much better.
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cloud41
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11/24/2022 4:56am
Depends on the track. The 250f is equal or better on hard pack and much slower in soft dirt. Overall, it is easier to ride, but you’ll feel the slug compared to a 250 2 stroke. The 350 would be a much better option - more juice without going overboard.
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11/24/2022 5:19am
Richy wrote:
If you're in the UK (I think that was you? Otherwise sorry haha), while the two strokes are more fun and I love the light and...
If you're in the UK (I think that was you? Otherwise sorry haha), while the two strokes are more fun and I love the light and free feeling of them like most do, I think unless you are a real two stroke artist (and we do have our share) you'll probably go faster and more consistently on a 250/350 four, especially with it often being way too wet or way too hard-pack here.

I love the two stroke character and seeing a guy sticking it to the four stroke masses is always a pleasure to watch, like Nev Bradshaw or Brad Anderson or any fast local dude racing a two stroke, but real world if race results are your priority then four stroke.

That said I'm 100% buying a two stroke next, but for pure fun factor... horses for courses like CPR said.
Haha yes that’s me, I’m in south uk racing vets with my lad in 65’s.

I guess it’s finding the right balance of everything. Tbh I wouldn’t normally of considered the 250f, mainly because the deal is good & feel maybe worth a shot. 350f seems harder to come by in low hours. Don’t really fancy rolling the dice on a high hour 4 stroke.

The husky 450 I tried the other felt like it was super glued to the ground compared to my 250 sx, which prob would result in more consistent times, just 450 can be a bit of a
Snooze after a while as I always found had to ride with a bit tentative to not wear out.


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11/24/2022 5:23am
cloud41 wrote:
Depends on the track. The 250f is equal or better on hard pack and much slower in soft dirt. Overall, it is easier to ride, but...
Depends on the track. The 250f is equal or better on hard pack and much slower in soft dirt. Overall, it is easier to ride, but you’ll feel the slug compared to a 250 2 stroke. The 350 would be a much better option - more juice without going overboard.
My plan would be to try to increase mid corner speed, so
Although the power is down on exit perhaps faster overall 🤔

My smoker was very effective at squaring off & shooting down the inside etc, which got me round decent, just obviously as racers always looking for a bit more for next season. I may end up being slower guess only going to be one way to find out.
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917rider
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11/24/2022 5:30am
Stock for stock a 250 two stroke makes a couple more horsepower, modded the two stroke leaves the 250f
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Spergen
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11/24/2022 5:34am
Richy wrote:
If you're in the UK (I think that was you? Otherwise sorry haha), while the two strokes are more fun and I love the light and...
If you're in the UK (I think that was you? Otherwise sorry haha), while the two strokes are more fun and I love the light and free feeling of them like most do, I think unless you are a real two stroke artist (and we do have our share) you'll probably go faster and more consistently on a 250/350 four, especially with it often being way too wet or way too hard-pack here.

I love the two stroke character and seeing a guy sticking it to the four stroke masses is always a pleasure to watch, like Nev Bradshaw or Brad Anderson or any fast local dude racing a two stroke, but real world if race results are your priority then four stroke.

That said I'm 100% buying a two stroke next, but for pure fun factor... horses for courses like CPR said.
Haha yes that’s me, I’m in south uk racing vets with my lad in 65’s. I guess it’s finding the right balance of everything. Tbh I...
Haha yes that’s me, I’m in south uk racing vets with my lad in 65’s.

I guess it’s finding the right balance of everything. Tbh I wouldn’t normally of considered the 250f, mainly because the deal is good & feel maybe worth a shot. 350f seems harder to come by in low hours. Don’t really fancy rolling the dice on a high hour 4 stroke.

The husky 450 I tried the other felt like it was super glued to the ground compared to my 250 sx, which prob would result in more consistent times, just 450 can be a bit of a
Snooze after a while as I always found had to ride with a bit tentative to not wear out.


A friend of mine is in your position but with a Husky 450 wanting to go 2 stroke, his bike is low hours with a good few trick bits on. We are up near fat cats. Possible px?
11/24/2022 5:35am
917rider wrote:
Stock for stock a 250 two stroke makes a couple more horsepower, modded the two stroke leaves the 250f
True, but it’s he power you can put to the ground in technical corners that might matter more.

I guess it’s going to very track for track, easy fast layouts hp prob going be king, rutty bumpy tracks with cambers might become a bit of a bull.
11/24/2022 5:37am
Spergen wrote:
A friend of mine is in your position but with a Husky 450 wanting to go 2 stroke, his bike is low hours with a good...
A friend of mine is in your position but with a Husky 450 wanting to go 2 stroke, his bike is low hours with a good few trick bits on. We are up near fat cats. Possible px?
Ah sadly I sold mine a few weeks ago.

917rider
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11/24/2022 6:06am
917rider wrote:
Stock for stock a 250 two stroke makes a couple more horsepower, modded the two stroke leaves the 250f
True, but it’s he power you can put to the ground in technical corners that might matter more. I guess it’s going to very track for...
True, but it’s he power you can put to the ground in technical corners that might matter more.

I guess it’s going to very track for track, easy fast layouts hp prob going be king, rutty bumpy tracks with cambers might become a bit of a bull.
Once you mod a two stroke it makes very trackable power for cheap . That why the armatures let 250’s two strokes race in the 250 class but they have to be stock , the new ktm 250sx fuel infected bike is gonna be a game changer!
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burn1986
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11/24/2022 6:41am
Adding a flywheel weight to the 2-stroke can give you a similar feel to the 4-stroke for comparison.
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11/24/2022 7:04am
burn1986 wrote:
Adding a flywheel weight to the 2-stroke can give you a similar feel to the 4-stroke for comparison.
Maybe, but it can’t give it that planted feel with the cornering, also a 250T always going to be out of ideas but 9k whereas thr 4 banger will pull on up top considerably.

I guess it’ll always come down to the rider using the bike to it’s strengths.

Pit Row

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Spergen
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11/24/2022 7:29am
Spergen wrote:
A friend of mine is in your position but with a Husky 450 wanting to go 2 stroke, his bike is low hours with a good...
A friend of mine is in your position but with a Husky 450 wanting to go 2 stroke, his bike is low hours with a good few trick bits on. We are up near fat cats. Possible px?
Ah sadly I sold mine a few weeks ago.

No worries, always worth a question
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Spergen
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11/24/2022 7:31am
917rider wrote:
Stock for stock a 250 two stroke makes a couple more horsepower, modded the two stroke leaves the 250f
True, but it’s he power you can put to the ground in technical corners that might matter more. I guess it’s going to very track for...
True, but it’s he power you can put to the ground in technical corners that might matter more.

I guess it’s going to very track for track, easy fast layouts hp prob going be king, rutty bumpy tracks with cambers might become a bit of a bull.
917rider wrote:
Once you mod a two stroke it makes very trackable power for cheap . That why the armatures let 250’s two strokes race in the 250...
Once you mod a two stroke it makes very trackable power for cheap . That why the armatures let 250’s two strokes race in the 250 class but they have to be stock , the new ktm 250sx fuel infected bike is gonna be a game changer!
Yeah I can't wait for the enduro model, never fancied the tpi but the DPI sound good from what reports I've read
AH387
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11/24/2022 7:58am
For laptimes on a MX track they are very similar now. The 250F is just so efficient and easy to go fast on if you can ride it semi-aggressively (like dont lug it in 3rd.) But i think 250 2st still have that rush of ppwer that makes them feel way faster and more exciting.
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11/24/2022 8:21am
AH387 wrote:
For laptimes on a MX track they are very similar now. The 250F is just so efficient and easy to go fast on if you can...
For laptimes on a MX track they are very similar now. The 250F is just so efficient and easy to go fast on if you can ride it semi-aggressively (like dont lug it in 3rd.) But i think 250 2st still have that rush of ppwer that makes them feel way faster and more exciting.
Yeah forsure & it’s that 2T power that brought me back to racing after a decade off. I did ride a 450 for like 5 years before I took a break, I think I lost the love for the sport in the end. I came back in the 250T & was such a breathe of fresh air.

But having done a couple race seasons now as a vet, when the track is battered, or it’s raining on slippery hard back, can see it’s tough to find a good Rhythm at times & ive been eaten up but a few 250f late in the motos.

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cmotodad
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11/24/2022 8:38am Edited Date/Time 11/24/2022 8:41am
You are 100% on point. Different track for different bike. I have a new 450 but prefer riding my modded CR250. I am faster on the 450 because back in the day, a 500 2stroke was my race bike. Throttle control is the key on the 450 and 250 2. The 250f's I have ridden seem a little lacking in some situations. Not being a revver, the 250 2 is better for me. A 180 lbs. 65 year old guy, they say I get around pretty well. Good luck with whatever choice you make. They are all fun.
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FGR01
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11/24/2022 8:46am
I notice you keep referring to the hard, slippery, choppy track conditions. The 22 KTM250F is very effective there, Unlike, say, the YZ250F. Where the YZ is very barky bottom to mid and just jumps off the corners in good traction, the KTM is one of the smoothest and most linear powerbands ever. Most don't like it because it "feels" slow and like it wont do anything unless you rev the piss out of it. But it is very effective in slippery conditions. Given a slippery track, I am picking that KTM250F over a 250 2-stroke every time.
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brocster
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11/24/2022 9:35am
burn1986 wrote:
Adding a flywheel weight to the 2-stroke can give you a similar feel to the 4-stroke for comparison.
Maybe, but it can’t give it that planted feel with the cornering, also a 250T always going to be out of ideas but 9k whereas thr...
Maybe, but it can’t give it that planted feel with the cornering, also a 250T always going to be out of ideas but 9k whereas thr 4 banger will pull on up top considerably.

I guess it’ll always come down to the rider using the bike to it’s strengths.
Suspension set up and roll sped can give you that planted feel with a 2T. The FWW will give you the feel of the 4T engine. I struggle with this decision as well.

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11/24/2022 9:46am
FGR01 wrote:
I notice you keep referring to the hard, slippery, choppy track conditions. The 22 KTM250F is very effective there, Unlike, say, the YZ250F. Where the YZ...
I notice you keep referring to the hard, slippery, choppy track conditions. The 22 KTM250F is very effective there, Unlike, say, the YZ250F. Where the YZ is very barky bottom to mid and just jumps off the corners in good traction, the KTM is one of the smoothest and most linear powerbands ever. Most don't like it because it "feels" slow and like it wont do anything unless you rev the piss out of it. But it is very effective in slippery conditions. Given a slippery track, I am picking that KTM250F over a 250 2-stroke every time.
Thanks for that, I’ve heard a few people say exactly the same about the sxf 250. I’m expecting to find it tricky at first & not doubt need a while to learn where the power is.

I guess ultimately it’s just another power character to learn, I hoping to be able to hang a gear at high rpm a little longer then the 250T, the sign off could be a little frustrating at times, would need to shift just for a split second to not get dropped. Everything must be a compromise in the end but be exciting to try something different.
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11/24/2022 9:46am
cmotodad wrote:
You are 100% on point. Different track for different bike. I have a new 450 but prefer riding my modded CR250. I am faster on the...
You are 100% on point. Different track for different bike. I have a new 450 but prefer riding my modded CR250. I am faster on the 450 because back in the day, a 500 2stroke was my race bike. Throttle control is the key on the 450 and 250 2. The 250f's I have ridden seem a little lacking in some situations. Not being a revver, the 250 2 is better for me. A 180 lbs. 65 year old guy, they say I get around pretty well. Good luck with whatever choice you make. They are all fun.
Thanks & FairPlay for still getting out there.
11/24/2022 10:24am
CPR wrote:
Horses for courses, but they’re about as even as two completely different engine designs could be. It’s a travesty that there’s not a true 250cc class...
Horses for courses, but they’re about as even as two completely different engine designs could be.
It’s a travesty that there’s not a true 250cc class in AMA pro racing.

You’ll likely be quicker on the 4t at some tracks, but they’re not as much fun as the 2t in my opinion.
Most AMA pro off-road racing(National hare and hound, National scrambles, etc) have a pro 250 class, 250cc 4T and 2t. Just sayin’
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