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I'd have to agree, Reed shouldn't be above Dungey on a top 10 list. Championships is probably the best way to measure these things, although it's hard to compare to the 500's era because a lot of the time the best riders didn't compete against each other in the same class. I will say though that if you take Carmichael's career and put it into any other decade you'd take a bunch of titles away from those champions and add some to others. Without Carmichael as competition Windham would have probably 3 more MX titles, and Reed would have another...

1. RC 1. McGrath 3. Stewart 4. Dungey 4. RV 4. Tomac 4. Reed 8. Hannah 8. Johnson 10. Ward My ties can go either way. RC was the best ever MX, MC was the best ever SX. Both have numbers that will never be touched. My #4 rider could switch at any time depending on what you value: Dungey, consistency RV, he won most titles he was healthy for Tomac, Beast mode and number of wins/titles are moving up Reed, longevity and number of wins Hannah and Johnson are both basically the same guy just about a decade apart...

Perhaps. When your talking about these Legends your splitting hairs. One knock against Eli is outside of pre injury Roczen and After Dungey none of these guys should have beat him for titles. Webb, Anderson, Ferrandis and Osburne specifically. IMO he’s so much better then them overall. Sexton this summer would have been the first title in since 16-17 that he could have lost to a rider of equal caliber. At least for a season. But really after RC at 1 it’s all opinion and there really is no right answer as to who goes where.

Both had stiff competition. MC -------- DV Windham RC Ezra Stanton Henry Ferry Tortelli LaRocco Emig Hughes Huffman Pichon Keidrowski Bradshaw Swink Lamson ELI ------- Dungey Roczen Barcia Reed Stew Canard Seely Ferrandis Sexton Baggett Moosecan Ando

I’m with you . Championships are the ultimate goal .

to me, championships mean more than race wins, he is now top 5 alos doing the double with a SX and MX title in one year as all the other top 5 guys have, RC with 15 RV with 9 MC and RD with 8 Eli now with 7 with RJ and Wardy,

Competition can be fairly subjective though. Without someone like McGrath dominating the way he did others would probably be elevated. If Windhams career wasn’t with MC/RC where wood he rank?

I think the best way to compare would require looking at win percentage, championships, and looking at competition for each rider. RC is #1. From there I would have to look at stats. I think looking at stats might change some opinions. Tomac while great, also has higher numbers from racing longer. RD had 1 sx title before Villopoto retired. Stewart was phenomenal on a 125, but on a big bike outdoors he didnt do as well (racing RC I know, but still).

Im 54 years old so I tend to think back to the 80s with a lot of nostalgia. Barnett had 3 125 titles and a sx title. Ward won titles in every class. Sx.125.250.500. 7 total? Stew won 5 titles. Glover had 6. Not sure on bailey . Johnson had 5 0r 6? I could not in good conscience rate stew higher then ward or Glover.

Total national titles should be the #1 criteria. Followed by wins. 250f and 125 sx titles and wins should mean nothing imo. Eli has 7 titles? Puts him ahead of all but rc and mc?

Top 3-4 seem to kinda separate themselves...then a group from 5-8, then a whole bunch who could fill out the top 10. IMO. 1. RC 2. McGrath 3. Stewart 4. Villopoto 5. Rick johnson 6. Eli tomac 7. Ryan Dungey 8. Bob Hannah 9. Jeff Ward 10. Broc Glover

I'm assuming you're meaning Top 10 AMA guys ? That list isn't horrible, but I certainly wouldn't have Roczen (2 titles) in there above guys like Barnett (4 titles) Glover (6 titles), etc. Keep in mind that you can't just go by race "wins" as back in the day, the series were split into 3 classes and there were many years that the Nationals only had 10 rounds and many seasons had even less .

Just my opinion, feel free to roast away. 1. RC 2. McGrath 3. Stewart 4. RV 5. Tomac 6. Reed 7. Dungey 8. Johnson 9. Hannah 10. Roczen

We're talking about the guys who let RC and Stewart go right?

For two more titles it probably would have been worth letting Gilly under the tent.

I get what you're saying, and you'd think so, but in reality it's unlikely. The pride / stubbornness of the Kawi team and company probably wouldn't have allowed them to do what Eli needed / wanted setup or support wise, so they couldn't / wouldn't have done anything different if they'd gotten another shot. Can't be kicking yourself if you can't admit you're making the mistakes responsible for it.

You’re not wrong. But what if it saved someone from heat stroke? Or death? 🤷‍♂️

Ifs and buts…. Why not make motos 60 minutes long so absolutely everything that could possibly happen does happen. 5 minutes shorter changed nothing, the field was cooked.

My wife thinks 5 minutes is nothing. To me it’s a lifetime and not that easy.