So, where does Eli fit in the top 10 great AMA riders of all time?

ando
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ando 9/6/2022 7:41pm
9/6/2022 7:41pm
FHKRacingZ wrote:
Just my opinion, feel free to roast away. 1. RC 2. McGrath 3. Stewart 4. RV 5. Tomac 6. Reed 7. Dungey 8. Johnson 9. Hannah...
Just my opinion, feel free to roast away.

1. RC
2. McGrath
3. Stewart
4. RV
5. Tomac
6. Reed
7. Dungey
8. Johnson
9. Hannah
10. Roczen
TropicPilot wrote:
I can't agree with Reed over Dungey. RD5 has as many Supercross titles as Reed and Stewart combined. Now what happens if we compare Dungey's outdoor...
I can't agree with Reed over Dungey. RD5 has as many Supercross titles as Reed and Stewart combined.

Now what happens if we compare Dungey's outdoor stats to Reeds?
I'd have to agree, Reed shouldn't be above Dungey on a top 10 list.

Championships is probably the best way to measure these things, although it's hard to compare to the 500's era because a lot of the time the best riders didn't compete against each other in the same class.

I will say though that if you take Carmichael's career and put it into any other decade you'd take a bunch of titles away from those champions and add some to others. Without Carmichael as competition Windham would have probably 3 more MX titles, and Reed would have another MX title and 2 more SX titles.

But that's just bench racing.
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8tensolutions
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8tensolutions 9/6/2022 7:41pm
9/6/2022 7:41pm
SX_336 wrote:
This is the first list that makes ANY damn sense. All the ones above are brain hemorrhaging to look at.
8tensolutions wrote:
Dungey ahead of Eli is laughable. He only won when RV was hurt. He was great yes, but 7-10 on this list
thewrizzle wrote:
Head to head Dungey vs Tomac, who has more titles?
It's not just titles. The era they raced in matters. Reed should be way up there having to race Stew and RC. Dungey lost every time he had the race the best of his era.....which was RV.
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Press516
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Press516 9/6/2022 7:44pm
9/6/2022 7:44pm
Well that’s absolutely the dumbest post of the day….
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Bruce372
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Bruce372 9/6/2022 7:47pm
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FHKRacingZ wrote:
Just my opinion, feel free to roast away. 1. RC 2. McGrath 3. Stewart 4. RV 5. Tomac 6. Reed 7. Dungey 8. Johnson 9. Hannah...
Just my opinion, feel free to roast away.

1. RC
2. McGrath
3. Stewart
4. RV
5. Tomac
6. Reed
7. Dungey
8. Johnson
9. Hannah
10. Roczen
Hard to argue against that top 5
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thewrizzle
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thewrizzle 9/6/2022 7:47pm
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8tensolutions wrote:
Dungey ahead of Eli is laughable. He only won when RV was hurt. He was great yes, but 7-10 on this list
thewrizzle wrote:
Head to head Dungey vs Tomac, who has more titles?
8tensolutions wrote:
It's not just titles. The era they raced in matters. Reed should be way up there having to race Stew and RC. Dungey lost every time...
It's not just titles. The era they raced in matters. Reed should be way up there having to race Stew and RC. Dungey lost every time he had the race the best of his era.....which was RV.
You compared Tomac to Dungey. Then you said Dungey never beat RV, I say before Dungey came out of retirement Tomac never beat Dungey. I’m very confused by your logic there.

BTW, where was RV when Dungey won the 2010 SX title? He lined up at A1 and couldn’t hang through the year…
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McG194 9/6/2022 7:50pm
9/6/2022 7:50pm
Press516 wrote:
Must be a lot of younger guys posting here... To see Glover barely on a list and not on most lists is remarkable. He tops nearly...
Must be a lot of younger guys posting here... To see Glover barely on a list and not on most lists is remarkable. He tops nearly every 500cc statistic. The guy has 6 freakin' titles and raced against some really bad dudes. He's got to be in the 7-8 range IMHO... And nothing against Reed, but I don't think he belongs on a top 10 all time AMA list.

Stewart won so many races but failed to put the titles together... Obviously just a bunch of opinions, including mine.

1. RC
2. RV
3. McGrath
4. RD
5. Eli
6. James
7. RJ
8. Broc
9. Wardy
10. Hannah

Worth looking at... http://mxbob.com/AllTime/AllTimeHome.htm
SX_336 wrote:
This is the first list that makes ANY damn sense. All the ones above are brain hemorrhaging to look at.
8tensolutions wrote:
Dungey ahead of Eli is laughable. He only won when RV was hurt. He was great yes, but 7-10 on this list
Not so fast.

Dungey's championship point totals:

2012 580
2015 547
2010 543

Tomac's championship point totals:

2022 546
2018 527
2019 521
2017 470

At those point totals Tomac only beats Dungey one time. If you average the point totals out for each guys championship seasons Dungey averages 10th most all time and Tomac's average is 24th most points all time. Tomac's 470 is the least in the modern era (12 race season) that ran all races. That counts out the Covid year and the cancelled Kenworthy year.

I'm not saying that makes Dungey better, it just makes it a damned valid argument. To say that Dungey ahead is laughable is in itself laughable.

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brimx153
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brimx153 9/6/2022 7:52pm
9/6/2022 7:52pm
Press516 wrote:
Must be a lot of younger guys posting here... To see Glover barely on a list and not on most lists is remarkable. He tops nearly...
Must be a lot of younger guys posting here... To see Glover barely on a list and not on most lists is remarkable. He tops nearly every 500cc statistic. The guy has 6 freakin' titles and raced against some really bad dudes. He's got to be in the 7-8 range IMHO... And nothing against Reed, but I don't think he belongs on a top 10 all time AMA list.

Stewart won so many races but failed to put the titles together... Obviously just a bunch of opinions, including mine.

1. RC
2. RV
3. McGrath
4. RD
5. Eli
6. James
7. RJ
8. Broc
9. Wardy
10. Hannah

Worth looking at... http://mxbob.com/AllTime/AllTimeHome.htm
SX_336 wrote:
This is the first list that makes ANY damn sense. All the ones above are brain hemorrhaging to look at.
8tensolutions wrote:
Dungey ahead of Eli is laughable. He only won when RV was hurt. He was great yes, but 7-10 on this list
Eli lost every title he completed dungey for . Dungey would of won in 2010 SX even if RV didn't get hurt imo. If dungey gets put down the list for not beating RV straight up . How can you put Tomac ahead of dungey
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Chris_Buehler
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Chris_Buehler 9/6/2022 7:55pm
9/6/2022 7:55pm
Dungey has to be the luckiest rider ever. 8 titles just by luck. Dude took off 5 yrs and is still a top 5 rider and he still gets no credit. He would have won 2017 mx and 2018 sx easy
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thewrizzle
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thewrizzle 9/6/2022 7:57pm
9/6/2022 7:57pm
SX_336 wrote:
This is the first list that makes ANY damn sense. All the ones above are brain hemorrhaging to look at.
8tensolutions wrote:
Dungey ahead of Eli is laughable. He only won when RV was hurt. He was great yes, but 7-10 on this list
brimx153 wrote:
Eli lost every title he completed dungey for . Dungey would of won in 2010 SX even if RV didn't get hurt imo. If dungey gets...
Eli lost every title he completed dungey for . Dungey would of won in 2010 SX even if RV didn't get hurt imo. If dungey gets put down the list for not beating RV straight up . How can you put Tomac ahead of dungey
This is something that always baffles me. People dog Dungey saying he only won when RV was out. Who did RV ever beat besides Dungey?
JS7? So did Dungey
Reed? So did Dungey
Windham? So did Dungey
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brimx153
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brimx153 9/6/2022 7:58pm
9/6/2022 7:58pm
Dungey has more title s than Eli , and Eli never beat him to one title . You can't put him ahead of dungey . Titles matter .
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str8line 9/6/2022 8:21pm
9/6/2022 8:21pm
Darrin Willis wrote:
Total national titles should be the #1 criteria. Followed by wins. 250f and 125 sx titles and wins should mean nothing imo. Eli has 7 titles...
Total national titles should be the #1 criteria. Followed by wins. 250f and 125 sx titles and wins should mean nothing imo. Eli has 7 titles? Puts him ahead of all but rc and mc?

250F titles mean nothing? RV's 250F seasons mean nothing? Jett's three titles in a row mean nothing? Harsh.
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spimx
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spimx 9/6/2022 8:28pm
9/6/2022 8:28pm
If we are going off just talent and speed. Stewart did race Villopoto and beat him in his prime and the same for a few times he beat RC in his prime. Tomac was consistently faster than RD in his prime.
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-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 9/6/2022 8:42pm
9/6/2022 8:42pm
Press516 wrote:
Must be a lot of younger guys posting here... To see Glover barely on a list and not on most lists is remarkable. He tops nearly...
Must be a lot of younger guys posting here... To see Glover barely on a list and not on most lists is remarkable. He tops nearly every 500cc statistic. The guy has 6 freakin' titles and raced against some really bad dudes. He's got to be in the 7-8 range IMHO... And nothing against Reed, but I don't think he belongs on a top 10 all time AMA list.

Stewart won so many races but failed to put the titles together... Obviously just a bunch of opinions, including mine.

1. RC
2. RV
3. McGrath
4. RD
5. Eli
6. James
7. RJ
8. Broc
9. Wardy
10. Hannah

Worth looking at... http://mxbob.com/AllTime/AllTimeHome.htm
SX_336 wrote:
This is the first list that makes ANY damn sense. All the ones above are brain hemorrhaging to look at.
8tensolutions wrote:
Dungey ahead of Eli is laughable. He only won when RV was hurt. He was great yes, but 7-10 on this list
Dungey has 4 SX titles which are worth more than outdoor titles.

He lined up against who showed up. Can't control that.
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8tensolutions
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8tensolutions 9/6/2022 8:44pm
9/6/2022 8:44pm
SX_336 wrote:
This is the first list that makes ANY damn sense. All the ones above are brain hemorrhaging to look at.
8tensolutions wrote:
Dungey ahead of Eli is laughable. He only won when RV was hurt. He was great yes, but 7-10 on this list
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Dungey has 4 SX titles which are worth more than outdoor titles.

He lined up against who showed up. Can't control that.
I agree he cannot control that, but when ranking the best it has to be part of the conversation.
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thewrizzle
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thewrizzle 9/6/2022 8:45pm
9/6/2022 8:45pm
8tensolutions wrote:
Dungey ahead of Eli is laughable. He only won when RV was hurt. He was great yes, but 7-10 on this list
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Dungey has 4 SX titles which are worth more than outdoor titles.

He lined up against who showed up. Can't control that.
8tensolutions wrote:
I agree he cannot control that, but when ranking the best it has to be part of the conversation.
Who has Tomac beat for a title?
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8tensolutions
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8tensolutions 9/6/2022 8:51pm
9/6/2022 8:51pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Dungey has 4 SX titles which are worth more than outdoor titles.

He lined up against who showed up. Can't control that.
8tensolutions wrote:
I agree he cannot control that, but when ranking the best it has to be part of the conversation.
thewrizzle wrote:
Who has Tomac beat for a title?
Webb, Roczen, Osborne, AC, Anderson, Sexton would be the most notable.
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Searights
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Searights 9/6/2022 8:54pm
9/6/2022 8:54pm
spimx wrote:
If we are going off just talent and speed. Stewart did race Villopoto and beat him in his prime and the same for a few times...
If we are going off just talent and speed. Stewart did race Villopoto and beat him in his prime and the same for a few times he beat RC in his prime. Tomac was consistently faster than RD in his prime.
Scoreboard 😀
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thewrizzle 9/6/2022 8:55pm
9/6/2022 8:55pm
8tensolutions wrote:
I agree he cannot control that, but when ranking the best it has to be part of the conversation.
thewrizzle wrote:
Who has Tomac beat for a title?
8tensolutions wrote:
Webb, Roczen, Osborne, AC, Anderson, Sexton would be the most notable.
So between them 6 big bike titles? Dungey beat Stewart and Reed which have 6 big bike titles.
Dungey beat Roczen and Anderson as well.
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Huevos
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Huevos 9/6/2022 9:17pm
9/6/2022 9:17pm
FHKRacingZ wrote:
Just my opinion, feel free to roast away. 1. RC 2. McGrath 3. Stewart 4. RV 5. Tomac 6. Reed 7. Dungey 8. Johnson 9. Hannah...
Just my opinion, feel free to roast away.

1. RC
2. McGrath
3. Stewart
4. RV
5. Tomac
6. Reed
7. Dungey
8. Johnson
9. Hannah
10. Roczen
How does Reed go above Dungey?

2 SX Champs, 1 MX Champ vs 4 SX Champs, 3 MX Champs... not to mention the 250 stuff.
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Huevos 9/6/2022 9:22pm
9/6/2022 9:22pm
8tensolutions wrote:
Dungey ahead of Eli is laughable. He only won when RV was hurt. He was great yes, but 7-10 on this list
thewrizzle wrote:
Head to head Dungey vs Tomac, who has more titles?
8tensolutions wrote:
It's not just titles. The era they raced in matters. Reed should be way up there having to race Stew and RC. Dungey lost every time...
It's not just titles. The era they raced in matters. Reed should be way up there having to race Stew and RC. Dungey lost every time he had the race the best of his era.....which was RV.
Dude, your logic is laughably stupid.

Tomac is ahead of Dungey, despite having less titles, because Dungey lost a lot to RV, while Tomac never ONCE beat Dungey for a title when they competed against each other.

I want what you're smoking.
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8tensolutions
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8tensolutions 9/6/2022 9:36pm
9/6/2022 9:36pm
thewrizzle wrote:
Head to head Dungey vs Tomac, who has more titles?
8tensolutions wrote:
It's not just titles. The era they raced in matters. Reed should be way up there having to race Stew and RC. Dungey lost every time...
It's not just titles. The era they raced in matters. Reed should be way up there having to race Stew and RC. Dungey lost every time he had the race the best of his era.....which was RV.
Huevos wrote:
Dude, your logic is laughably stupid. Tomac is ahead of Dungey, despite having less titles, because Dungey lost a lot to RV, while Tomac never ONCE...
Dude, your logic is laughably stupid.

Tomac is ahead of Dungey, despite having less titles, because Dungey lost a lot to RV, while Tomac never ONCE beat Dungey for a title when they competed against each other.

I want what you're smoking.
You do realize Tomac only raced Dungey at the beginning of his big bike career. That's like saying Chase should have beat Tomac this year and because he didn't he will never be as good. There are so many variables with this group of riders and they are all great. You can get mad all you want, but Tomac > Dungey.
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thewrizzle
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thewrizzle 9/6/2022 9:43pm
9/6/2022 9:43pm
8tensolutions wrote:
It's not just titles. The era they raced in matters. Reed should be way up there having to race Stew and RC. Dungey lost every time...
It's not just titles. The era they raced in matters. Reed should be way up there having to race Stew and RC. Dungey lost every time he had the race the best of his era.....which was RV.
Huevos wrote:
Dude, your logic is laughably stupid. Tomac is ahead of Dungey, despite having less titles, because Dungey lost a lot to RV, while Tomac never ONCE...
Dude, your logic is laughably stupid.

Tomac is ahead of Dungey, despite having less titles, because Dungey lost a lot to RV, while Tomac never ONCE beat Dungey for a title when they competed against each other.

I want what you're smoking.
8tensolutions wrote:
You do realize Tomac only raced Dungey at the beginning of his big bike career. That's like saying Chase should have beat Tomac this year and...
You do realize Tomac only raced Dungey at the beginning of his big bike career. That's like saying Chase should have beat Tomac this year and because he didn't he will never be as good. There are so many variables with this group of riders and they are all great. You can get mad all you want, but Tomac > Dungey.
They raced each other in the 450 class for 4 years. Nearly half of each other’s 450 careers.
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thewrizzle
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thewrizzle 9/6/2022 9:45pm
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Huevos wrote:
Dude, your logic is laughably stupid. Tomac is ahead of Dungey, despite having less titles, because Dungey lost a lot to RV, while Tomac never ONCE...
Dude, your logic is laughably stupid.

Tomac is ahead of Dungey, despite having less titles, because Dungey lost a lot to RV, while Tomac never ONCE beat Dungey for a title when they competed against each other.

I want what you're smoking.
8tensolutions wrote:
You do realize Tomac only raced Dungey at the beginning of his big bike career. That's like saying Chase should have beat Tomac this year and...
You do realize Tomac only raced Dungey at the beginning of his big bike career. That's like saying Chase should have beat Tomac this year and because he didn't he will never be as good. There are so many variables with this group of riders and they are all great. You can get mad all you want, but Tomac > Dungey.
thewrizzle wrote:
They raced each other in the 450 class for 4 years. Nearly half of each other’s 450 careers.
Only 1 less year than RV raced Dungey.
str8line
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str8line 9/6/2022 9:48pm
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8tensolutions wrote:
It's not just titles. The era they raced in matters. Reed should be way up there having to race Stew and RC. Dungey lost every time...
It's not just titles. The era they raced in matters. Reed should be way up there having to race Stew and RC. Dungey lost every time he had the race the best of his era.....which was RV.
Huevos wrote:
Dude, your logic is laughably stupid. Tomac is ahead of Dungey, despite having less titles, because Dungey lost a lot to RV, while Tomac never ONCE...
Dude, your logic is laughably stupid.

Tomac is ahead of Dungey, despite having less titles, because Dungey lost a lot to RV, while Tomac never ONCE beat Dungey for a title when they competed against each other.

I want what you're smoking.
8tensolutions wrote:
You do realize Tomac only raced Dungey at the beginning of his big bike career. That's like saying Chase should have beat Tomac this year and...
You do realize Tomac only raced Dungey at the beginning of his big bike career. That's like saying Chase should have beat Tomac this year and because he didn't he will never be as good. There are so many variables with this group of riders and they are all great. You can get mad all you want, but Tomac > Dungey.

Not yet. They are close but THE DIESEL is still ahead. Honestly all those seconds count for something. He was more consistent than Tomac. Tomac needs another SX title, a MXDN win and maybe next years outdoors to cement 2nd.
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Thisusernameisavailable 9/6/2022 10:46pm
9/6/2022 10:46pm Edited Date/Time 9/6/2022 10:52pm
FHKRacingZ wrote:
Just my opinion, feel free to roast away. 1. RC 2. McGrath 3. Stewart 4. RV 5. Tomac 6. Reed 7. Dungey 8. Johnson 9. Hannah...
Just my opinion, feel free to roast away.

1. RC
2. McGrath
3. Stewart
4. RV
5. Tomac
6. Reed
7. Dungey
8. Johnson
9. Hannah
10. Roczen
In your list, why is Roczen in the top ten but Emig isn’t?

To compare the two:

KR:
AMA-250SX West regional -2013
AMA-450MX – 2014
AMA-450MX – 2016

JE:
AMA 125cc outdoor- 1992
AMA 250cc outdoor - 1996
AMA 250cc outdoor- 1997
AMA 250cc Supercross - 1997

Emig’s results holds a lot more weight that KR.
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NVA57
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NVA57 9/6/2022 11:20pm
9/6/2022 11:20pm
Hudd_421 wrote:
Lol 10-15? GTFO. Hurlings is regarded as the fastest outdoor rider ever in MXGP and I think he would say Eli is on-close to his level.

Eli’s 6 450 titles is ways above Herlings’ 2.
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SoCalMX70
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SoCalMX70 9/6/2022 11:20pm
9/6/2022 11:20pm Edited Date/Time 9/6/2022 11:20pm
I'm a numbers guy... And I cringe at any list where MC is lower than 2nd.

Don't forget that outside his single outdoor title, he's 10th in premier class outdoor wins (last I checked) and has a couple Des Nations wins.

I don't want to hear it about "era" and "competition" either. He knocked a bunch down, including 2 years of RC.
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NorCalRedRyder 9/7/2022 1:14am
9/7/2022 1:14am
TropicPilot wrote:
I can't agree with Reed over Dungey. RD5 has as many Supercross titles as Reed and Stewart combined. Now what happens if we compare Dungey's outdoor...
I can't agree with Reed over Dungey. RD5 has as many Supercross titles as Reed and Stewart combined.

Now what happens if we compare Dungey's outdoor stats to Reeds?
FHKRacingZ wrote:
Yea to me it was a toss up between Reed and Dungey. I just think its very impressive for Reed to have the success he had...
Yea to me it was a toss up between Reed and Dungey.

I just think its very impressive for Reed to have the success he had during a prime RC and JS. Dungey was the king of consistency and placing him over Reed works for me.

Honestly I think Reed, Dungey, Tomac slide in behind the Top 4 and could be interchanged depending on your opinion.
Reed was the king of benefiting when RC and Bubba were hurt. No way he's ahead of Dungey.
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Kasims 9/7/2022 1:58am
9/7/2022 1:58am
TropicPilot wrote:
I can't agree with Reed over Dungey. RD5 has as many Supercross titles as Reed and Stewart combined. Now what happens if we compare Dungey's outdoor...
I can't agree with Reed over Dungey. RD5 has as many Supercross titles as Reed and Stewart combined.

Now what happens if we compare Dungey's outdoor stats to Reeds?
FHKRacingZ wrote:
Yea to me it was a toss up between Reed and Dungey. I just think its very impressive for Reed to have the success he had...
Yea to me it was a toss up between Reed and Dungey.

I just think its very impressive for Reed to have the success he had during a prime RC and JS. Dungey was the king of consistency and placing him over Reed works for me.

Honestly I think Reed, Dungey, Tomac slide in behind the Top 4 and could be interchanged depending on your opinion.
NorCalRedRyder wrote:
Reed was the king of benefiting when RC and Bubba were hurt. No way he's ahead of Dungey.




Yep, and he was way back, when they were healthy...
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ando
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ando 9/7/2022 2:01am
9/7/2022 2:01am
8tensolutions wrote:
Dungey ahead of Eli is laughable. He only won when RV was hurt. He was great yes, but 7-10 on this list
thewrizzle wrote:
Head to head Dungey vs Tomac, who has more titles?
8tensolutions wrote:
It's not just titles. The era they raced in matters. Reed should be way up there having to race Stew and RC. Dungey lost every time...
It's not just titles. The era they raced in matters. Reed should be way up there having to race Stew and RC. Dungey lost every time he had the race the best of his era.....which was RV.
It's interesting to dig down into the results.

RV has 2 x 450MX titles and 3 x 450SX titles; Reed has 2 x 450SX and 1 x 450MX. Yet RV has 3 fewer SX wins and only two more overall MX wins.
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