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OP here… very much in favor of capitalism to be clear, and my feelings are not hurt. It’s only a dirt bike forum. If Renthal wants to make a nearly identical bar to another brand, I have no problem. I’m sure PT has ripped off similar bends of Renthal. My “I don’t know man” is that Keefer seems to be getting a lot of credit for “creating” something that already existed. If you read his annual handlebar recommendations on his website, the SX Race bend was consistently in his recommendations for years. So he basically made a deal with Renthal, gave them PT bar dimensions that he liked, and then called it an all new Keefer 661 bend. It’s kind of like he wrapped a coca-cola with a Pepsi label and said the new flavor was his idea. And they’re basically saying the bar is so good that even Tomac is using it… no, the bar is just the Renthal version of the same bend that Tomac has been using for years.
Got it... Thanks for explaining that. I don't listen to Pulp as much anymore but I can see where you're coming from. To me, it's just another bar with a rider's name on it. I've always assumed Renthal/PT/MIKA and the rest have pretty similar bends and aren't coming up with tons of new stuff, so I never considered this to be a unicorn bar.
Here's my take:
Sweep: This is what I notice. Give me less of it and I'm happy.
Width: Oh yeah, I think these bars might be wider.
Clamping area: Yeah, it fits when I go to put it on the triple clamps.
Flex: What's flex?
The only time I notice is during the first 2 minutes of riding, then I'm used to it. 3 minutes if the bars are bent.
I notice flex and vibration after 10-15min when hands go numb. Huge difference between KTM OEM bars from Neken and Protaper or Renthal bars.
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Yes sir. Not wrong. No hate comms. 😂 I was a fan of the PT SX Race bend (and that’s what I was starting with when going to new Renthal bend) but I wanted to make small changes to the height and rise and we did. On paper it’s nothing but (to me) it made me relax more on a wide variety of bikes. I didn’t like the SX Race bend on a KTM (too tall feeling in corners) but I thought my bend was great on the KTM for a wide variety of riders (yes, small changes but I could feel/I also understand if some won’t be able to feel). I REALLY wanted to make my bar flatter than 54mm of sweep as I really wanted around 51-52mm but then we would have to change the control area width as well as length of bar. The length I wasn’t willing to compromise because 802mm (to me) is a GREAT length for shorter and taller riders. Again, this was awesome for Renthal to allow me to make my own bar and I’m honored and stoked it happened. I ended running through three different iterations of it but this is what we decided on. Hope this helps the IDK man. 😂
I love you Keefer but I can see two things that are very evident here in this thread. 1) Vital loves to jump on you. 2) You are completely full of shit.
There is absolutely no way 0.5mm of change is going to make you feel more relaxed on the bike. Even IF you could tell I seriously doubt quality control gets within 0.5mm on bar bends. Such a tiny amount.
It’s fine. I have thick skin. I do feel it in bars, I’m sorry to say. No reason why I would say I feel something if I don’t. 😂 What’s the point? Do I expect people to feel 0.5mm? No but this is what we came up with. Renthal and/I created some optional bends for me to test and this is what I like. If you like it, great! If not, it’s ok. Bars are preference, not a problem. What it boils down to is if you like the bend of the bar. Hopefully this gives others another option for bars. Also, I didn’t get paid from Renthal to make my own bend and also don’t get a commission. I thought it was an honor enough just to get asked to make my own bend. As a kid I thought having your own bar was bad ass. That’s all I got for you.
I’ll consider myself lucky that I can’t tell a difference in less than 1/50th of an inch difference in bar rise. I’m already crazy enough as it is.
Hi Kris, I understand that reducing backsweep will increase width.
However, Looking at Renthal's other bars, the 822 has much less backsweep than your bar, and only increased total width by 6mm. Interestingly, the clamp area is 7mm longer than your bar.
If you were to cut 3mm off each side of the 822, you'd have an 802mm wide bar, same clamp area (as 661), and less backsweep.
Looking at the dimensions, I cannot see why it wouldnt apply to the 661, So it looks like you could have had your cake and eaten it too.
I'm an engineer but I specialize in adult pleasure toys, so take this with a grain of salt.
“Bars are preference” . On one hand I agree. On the other, there must be real science behind this just like every other variable piece on the bike. I’ve tried 821, 827, 661, 604, and 996 on my KTM. I find I prefer different bars for seated cornering vs standing through bumps or jumping. The differences are significant. Ultimately I ended up towards the middle as a compromise (for now). That compromise could be considered “preference.” The differences in bars (Ex. 821 to 604) are massive compared to triple clamp stiffness or even offset (22 to 23.5) which can be felt for sure. To me there must be more science.
Hate to hijack the thread but I have a 2019 yz250 2t and was thinking about trying new bars, would my stock ones basically be the PT SX?
All of the modern bends are very similar ranging from 78-93mm height and 49-55mm sweep. There’s a few outliers like the 822, 604, 994, and CR high bend. So it’s not really a shock his bar falls within these numbers.
Renthal doesn’t make many bars around 85mm height so it fills the spot as a more modern flatter 672.
100% true on the Neken bars. That’s the first thing I change on a new KTM. Oddly enough, I use the PT Evo SX Race bars.
I will say this though… I tried the Contour PT w/ same bend (SX Race) and did not like them. I also tried the Carbon filled bars in the same bend and they felt like the Neken bars to me. Lots of vibration and rigid. The Carbon ones are on my 890 ADV bike and the contours went on a bike I sold.
When the ProTapers were hard to come by, I bought (5) sets of EVO bars.
I think the countours might be a little thicker metal? The carbon bars made my hands hurt after a 90-120 minute xc race. I never understood why.
Here is a bar mystery for you. The Fatbar36 tunes out some of the high frequency vibration coming from a 250f ktm. Those bars also have a lot of flex fore/aft but not up and down.
This forum can be toxic, just like social media. They’ll love you and like your content one day and then drag you thru the mud the next. 🤣
When you are riding everyday, the little changes are noticeable. My kid hated testing/ changing things on the bike. I always knew that the bike(s) could be better, but he wasn’t picky and just rode them how I set them up. Other than suspension, it was up to me to get it rideable.
There’s no doubt that your testing/ opinions have helped a lot of people get a base or even steered them in the right direction. Not everyone will (or should) jump on your bandwagon. To each their own, there will always be haters. But plenty of people benefit and enjoy your content. Keep doing you buddy…
The High Dez is wet and calling ! Beans tomorrow
Yeah, I didn’t dig down the rabbit hole too far, but there’s a difference that even I can tell, without running them back to back. I was never picky and would have made a terrible test rider myself, but some people that ride a lot, are super sensitive to changes.
stock Yamaha bars are Pro Taper Evo "YZ High"
Pit Row
Thanks!
I loved the stock KTM bars. I put them on every bike I own. Plus you can get them cheap.
I never noticed any difference in vibrations from PT or Renthal.
I have a good friend that lives them too, he gets all of mine for free. But he’s also the guy that is the least picky of our group. I’m happy to help him out whenever I can. He uses my old mousse’s too, he just cuts them and stuffs more in there as they wear. Irony is he’s the best rider on the group too. lol
Difference on PT and Renthal in Europe is that one you can buy every shop and other doesnt exist.
Hi Chase 🙂
Thinking about this, it was a while back, when Eli was on pulp, Matthes made a joke reference to Eli about thanking Keefer for the bars that lead to him winning.
I don’t remember exactly what he said, but Eli chuckled and said something like “oh yeah that must be it haha”
Don't forget the guys who say they can feel the difference between tq settings on clamp bolts and engine mount bolts 😂
To be fair, torque on the lower triple clamp pinch bolts does make a difference on feel, but that is one of the very rare exceptions! And it has nothing to do with the bolt being tighter (and somehow stiffer?), but rather that the fork tube gets distorted and the lower fork bushing will bind up as it passes through the triple clamp area.
Is it just me, or do Tomac's bars always look a bit narrower than other peoples'? Is it possible that he starts out with the 802mm 661s and cuts them way down? I don't know....could just be my imagination. But his bars always looked narrow to me.
I think that’s because he looks so big on the bike the way he manhandles that thing like it’s an 85
Post a reply to: I Don't Know Man: Keefer and the 661 Bend